Vanquisher VS AotME

[JellySlayer]

I think AoTME is overall the highest damage weapon in the game except for ToTRR (only against what it slays) and Paladin + Justifier. Excluding missiles, of course.

[sylph]

I thought the axe only had a crit rate of 20-25%? Sure, in addition to find weakness, ring of the master cat etc it is easy to get to 60% or above, but the ways the maths works out, I might suspect it's likely that a character without find weakness, and without +crit items like the cat ring or the bracers of war, will end up doing more damage with vanquisher than the axe.
(Since 100% crit with vanquisher is probably equal in damage to about 35% crit with the cow axe, but 100% vanquisher is way weaker than 50% crit cow axe).
That is to say, vanquisher is an lovely powerful weapon, but it 'wastes' your crit chance, and the more it wastes, the more inferior to the cow axe it becomes. If you have no crit chance to waste, it might be more powerful than AotME...

[divij]

Exactly. Now add 4 PV and extra +10 and you have the answer to the original question. Also, (50+58)*1.4 is minimal damage for the axe. Find Weakness + innate crit chance + other items + class powers will only increase it, while V is already at the possible max.

find weakness and the crit % is what makes or breaks this argument. i dont get what you mean by +10. other items/ class powers shud not be a part of this argument...

That is to say, vanquisher is an lovely powerful weapon, but it 'wastes' your crit chance, and the more it wastes, the more inferior to the cow axe it becomes. If you have no crit chance to waste, it might be more powerful than AotME...

this is precisely my point and the premise on which i did my calculations....

[JellySlayer]

I thought the axe only had a crit rate of 20-25%? Sure, in addition to find weakness, ring of the master cat etc it is easy to get to 60% or above, but the ways the maths works out, I might suspect it's likely that a character without find weakness, and without +crit items like the cat ring or the bracers of war, will end up doing more damage with vanquisher than the axe.

I'm pretty sure it's 50%.

[_Ln_]

For those interested in precise numbers:

Bloody Dagger: 50%
Whip of slaughtering: 50%
Axe of the Minotaur Emperor: 40%
Serpent's Bite: 30%
Mighty Morning Star Grod: 0%25% (fixed -- http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=134)
Bracers of War: 8%
Ring of the Master Cat: 16%

[mjkittredge]

Ah so like I suspected, Mino Axe is better. Maybe vanquisher could be good for throwing, lol. Thanks all for the lively discussion.

Was funny in the library 1-shotting doppleganger kings. Confusion resist on the axe makes it perfect for them, frees up my ring slots for rings of slaying instead of clear mind/mental stability. Greater/master/hivemind mimics didn't fair much better, neither did the ancient dragons.

But since it was the first time for me getting a character to the library, I screwed up. Killed every monster and read every book without chatting or casting a spell, but then I thought enough time had passed and talked to the librarian, who replied "PSSST!" Ugh, I don't even know the command to turn on the turn counter to wait, what was it, 2000 turns?

And random question, now that I have Suns Messenger artifact bow, are undead slaying arrows useless or coupled with the bow do they deal even greater damage? Does it make any difference if I bless the bow or not? Guessing no, but I learn new thing s every day.

[Silfir]

I'm fairly sure the undead slaying on the arrows is redundant if you're using Sun's Messenger. Slaying or criticals don't stack. Blessing the bow only makes a difference if you're throwing it.

[divij]

Was funny in the library 1-shotting doppleganger kings

it isnt as funny if they hit you for 850 points of damage and kill your lvl 50 barbarian from near full hp

[mjkittredge]

it isnt as funny if they hit you for 850 points of damage and kill your lvl 50 barbarian from near full hp

"You see a Doppleganger King. It is not injured. It looks EXTREMELY experienced!"

That's another fun thing for the influx of new players to learn once they get through the mid game. Monster types you killed with ease earlier can be frighteningly powerful later on if you killed a ton of them and they are generated on lower CoC levels.

[Blasphemous]

Doppelganger King can be deadly no matter how experienced it is.