Candleborn troll assassins... Healing or herbalism?

[santamaria]

(snip)
Preferably if you can get gardening too, you will maximize gains from herbalism with quickly farmed hundreds of blessed spense and little time lost.
If I have a choice, I will always go with herbalism+gardening versus healing, even if I'm not candle.
For herbalism alone, you're left to take the little scraps that RNG throws at you - one patch here, one there, 3-4 in the big room once you clear the rat infestations, worms, spider factories etc. so it's a bit harder.
If I were a candle troll assassin, I'd definitely go for herbalism and then wish for gardening at some point, sooner rather than later.

I have a strong habit of playing race/class combos with some way of getting gardening, but I never considered spending a wish on it. I guess if I've already got alchemy which I'd be wishing for with a farmer, I might as well wish for gardening on an assassin. (edit: Oh and wishing for gardening might be a better bet than playing a hurthling and struggling with strength)

[SinsI]

While Gardening is good, it is not worth a Wish, as a few potions of holy water can work just as well. The problem is getting it to decent enough levels to reliably farm herb seeds - i.e. my current Hurtling Merchant only has 50 skill, and it is not worth it to spend the next 6-7 level ups to get it to something decent with that +1 per try...

[Blasphemous]

While Gardening is good, it is not worth a Wish, as a few potions of holy water can work just as well.

I disagree. I frequently use wishes on gardening if I already have herbalism and I never regret that.
You'd need a crapton of water to bless enough herbs to make it feasible in the long run.
There's plenty of better uses for the priceless resource that is holy water.

I believe that there are no wasted wishes.
You just wish for something that will make your game comfortable, it doesn't have to be a min-maxing thing and it doesn't have to make a huge difference.\
Truth is, any items you might wish for can be found otherwise.
With skills its a bit more difficult because scrolls/potions of education give a random skill.
So asking for a favorite skill is a perfectly fine wish in my opinion.

[Moeba]

You'd need a crapton of water to bless enough herbs to make it feasible in the long run.

He means using holy water on the ground to grow the herbs. Quoting the adom guidebook: Herbs can be generated on any dungeon level by 'U'sing a potion of holy water on a dungeon square, even for PCs without the Gardening skill. The success rate is about 33% but herb growth only happens on those levels that already have herbs, contrary to how things work with gardening.

[Blasphemous]

That still requires a lot of water.
Also as you mentioned, it restricts your choice of a perfect spot to those that already have herbs, which isn't a good thing.

[Soirana]

That still requires a lot of water.

About 3? Pattern of

.."
"".
.".

given enough space generates enough material for any sheaningans. [assuming one has wand of digging space is just matter of farming beggars]

Personally I've tried Gardening and on my chars at 50 both seed harvesting and planting still fails a lot. So in reality you also need to level up skill quite a lot.

So you use wish and bunch of skill raises for chance to do something after 3-4 levelups, while one can get same thing with bit of beggar booze and 3 pots of holy water.
Everyone has his preferences I guess...

[santamaria]

About 3? Pattern of

.."
"".
.".

given enough space generates enough material for any sheaningans. [assuming one has wand of digging space is just matter of farming beggars]

Personally I've tried Gardening and on my chars at 50 both seed harvesting and planting still fails a lot. So in reality you also need to level up skill quite a lot.

So you use wish and bunch of skill raises for chance to do something after 3-4 levelups, while one can get same thing with bit of beggar booze and 3 pots of holy water.
Everyone has his preferences I guess...

You don't actually have to level up to gain skills. I don't usually use level-up skill increases on skills that would train themselves. I feel like it really hurts the skill dice when you do that compared to when you just train the skill by usage. It's only really useful as a desperate measure to increase a specific skill quickly.

As for needing high gardening, that's only necessary if you feel the need to collect ridiculous amounts of herb seeds in a short time.

Also, gardening has advantages over holy water. You can plant herb seeds in any level you want and the level will start the herb growth cycles. You can start a garden in really convenient places like the first level of a dungeon. Interestingly enough, you can plant them all over most of the high mountain village. Another advantage is that you don't have to dig out a level (or use the big room) to plant as many bushes as you'd like. With holy water, you need enough room to make the growth pattern worthwhile. With gardening, you can use a level with lots of rooms and hallways and not bother to pacify the level since breeders and spider factories aren't a huge problem in those levels.

I agree though that you can get the job done with just holy water if you really want to, as long as you're okay with existing herb levels and lots of mining.

[Soirana]

To be honest only real application of gardening which is really useful for me is if high herbalism and the need to destroy blossoming bush in one turn.
Gardening really shines in that situation.

[Blasphemous]

Gardening needs to be at 71 or higher to be effective.
Occasionally when taught by the druid, it will start at a relatively high value around 70.
Otherwise it's quite painful to train.

[divij]

To be honest only real application of gardening which is really useful for me is if high herbalism and the need to destroy blossoming bush in one turn.
Gardening really shines in that situation.

nice idea for gardening use....i get utterly frustrated when my high lvl herbalism comes in the way of clearing herbs to stabilize them, which is always!