Chaos knights - let's suggest what could be done better...

[sylph]

Ok, I love the addition of the chaos knight to ADOM. I'm particularly fond of the fact that they don't get to do quests like the other classes do. In fact I feel that giving them access to the healing quest without converting alignment was a mistake! A proper chaos knight should be healing with the class power!

Here's a few of the ideas I've had that I think would help flesh this class out a little:

1. Allow a one-time special reward for drinking from the pool in the stone circle. Perhaps remove all corruption? 'Absolutely close' status? A wish?
2. Level 18 classpower (+ skill levels in melee weapons) should be replaced with 'resists the corruption of chaos essense', allowing the character to take a reduced passive corruption from 'chaos and corruption' items (chaos trinity, crown of science, shield of raw steel, amulet of raw steel), close to zero when stored in inventory.
3. Darkforge golems generated neutral. They will become hostile if the PC tries to steal weapons or armour.
4. New ending: servant of chaos. Rewarded for a PC that carries all 5 chaos orbs out of the drakalor chain. Some text about scattering the orbs to 4 corners of Ancardia, allowing chaos to invade and conquer the world for generations.
5. New ending: Ultimate servant of AnDoR dRaKoN: Rewarded for a PC that sacrifices the TotRR on a temple chaos altar. Some text about Andor Drakon forever ruling Ancardia, with all hopes for redemption thwarted by the PC.
6. Chaos cat in Terynio (http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1883). Pet chaos cat would be awesome.
7. Khelevaster's dialogue could be slightly adjusted.
8. Entering the chaos gate, if the player has never deviated from C alignment, should probably allow the player to serve as a soldier in a chaos legion or something, instead of just tearing them apart.

While I'm on this subject, I've read a few posts about a 'redemption quest' for chaos knights to abandon their chaotic origins. It's already kinda in the game - you just close the chaos gate.


Opinions? Any other good suggestions?

[Al-Khwarizmi]

I think giving them access to the chaotic healing quest is fine, the previous behavior just didn't make sense. I like the rest of the suggestions, especially these are awesome:

4. New ending: servant of chaos. Rewarded for a PC that carries all 5 chaos orbs out of the drakalor chain. Some text about scattering the orbs to 4 corners of Ancardia, allowing chaos to invade and conquer the world for generations.
5. New ending: Ultimate servant of AnDoR dRaKoN: Rewarded for a PC that sacrifices the TotRR on a temple chaos altar. Some text about Andor Drakon forever ruling Ancardia, with all hopes for redemption thwarted by the PC.

While I'm on this subject, I've read a few posts about a 'redemption quest' for chaos knights to abandon their chaotic origins. It's already kinda in the game - you just close the chaos gate.

But if you do that you're deemed the most stupid follower of chaos ever, aren't you?

[sylph]

But if you do that you're deemed the most stupid follower of chaos ever, aren't you?

If you were remembered heroically it wouldn't feel like true sacrifice.

[taickyto]

Then it could be a good idea to have the winning line depend on your alignment when you close the gate, with the "most stupid follower of chaos" when you're C- and things such as : "put aside the corrupted part of himself and brought balance to the world" for neutrals, and "redeemed himself for the greater good" for lawfuls.
4 is a very good idea because when you've retrieved all 5 orbs, the rest of the game is basically a breeze.
5 I disagree with, because I feel like it is anticlimactic to have struggled all the requisites to get the ToTRR, and then win the game by saccing it on an altar found on UD:4. It would at least need a special dungeon, or a chaotic altar next to the chaos gates.

[sylph]

Then it could be a good idea to have the winning line depend on your alignment when you close the gate, with the "most stupid follower of chaos" when you're C- and things such as : "put aside the corrupted part of himself and brought balance to the world" for neutrals, and "redeemed himself for the greater good" for lawfuls.
4 is a very good idea because when you've retrieved all 5 orbs, the rest of the game is basically a breeze.
5 I disagree with, because I feel like it is anticlimactic to have struggled all the requisites to get the ToTRR, and then win the game by saccing it on an altar found on UD:4. It would at least need a special dungeon, or a chaotic altar next to the chaos gates.

I did say *temple* chaos altar, so nothing as undramatic as UD:4. I nearly suggested throwing it into the chaos gate, but I ultimately preferred the idea of using the inbuild sacrifice mechanic.

[_Ln_]

The problem with Chaos Knights is that the game doesn't make sense when you play them as C. Slaying all the orb guardians and D:50 denizens is not "the most stupid follower of Chaos". It simply makes absolutely no sense.

Some justifications can be thought of --
1) Andor Drakon sent you on a quest to test his guardians' prowess. If you kill them, then orbs naturally were not secure enough. You go to D:50 where everything except random monster is neutral and allows you to pass through the chaos gate to return the orbs to AD.
2) Andor Drakon sent you on a quest to wrench the orbs out of guardians' hands because they all rebelled and started abusing its powers. In order to send the orbs back you sacrifice each on the corresponding temple altar (which pacifies the elemental anomaly) and proceed to neutral D:50 and just pass through the gate.
3) If you get the ToTRR, you have to slaughter your way through D:50 because naturally everyone thinks you are about to contest AD's rule. You pass through the chaos gate. You either do an UCG or you simply 'g'ive the trident to hostile AD. He's surprised, but laughs it off and rewards you (instead of your original sacrifice the trident suggestion which is too easy IMHO).

1. Allow a one-time special reward for drinking from the pool in the stone circle. Perhaps remove all corruption? 'Absolutely close' status? A wish?
2. Level 18 classpower (+ skill levels in melee weapons) should be replaced with 'resists the corruption of chaos essense', allowing the character to take a reduced passive corruption from 'chaos and corruption' items (chaos trinity, crown of science, shield of raw steel, amulet of raw steel), close to zero when stored in inventory.
7. Khelevaster's dialogue could be slightly adjusted.
8. Entering the chaos gate, if the player has never deviated from C alignment, should probably allow the player to serve as a soldier in a chaos legion or something, instead of just tearing them apart.

Love these. Especially #2. I think though it should be level 32 power (already deals with chaos things) and it should nullify essence effect outright.
Additionally, it would be awesome if some class power handled Curse and Doom effects (significantly reducing the bad stuff) to allow to wear the Trinity at all times. Because right now they (the Trinity) are nowhere near Celestrix level to justify cursedoom.

[BenMathiesen]

All these ideas are excellent -- definitely deserving of a RFE. Then let Thomas decide what he wants to implement.
I totally agree that the quest progression would make more sense if the goal was to return the orbs to Andy.
Maybe each time a CK slays an orb guardian, there is a special message providing guidance from Andy regarding what to do with the orb?

[JellySlayer]

The level 18 class power is pretty awesome. I'd hate to lose it

I do like the idea of reduced corruption from the Chaos artifacts though.

[Soirana]

The problem with Chaos Knights is that the game doesn't make sense when you play them as C. Slaying all the orb guardians and D:50 denizens is not "the most stupid follower of Chaos". It simply makes absolutely no sense.

Well, as they say narrative can justify pretty much anything.

I don't think CK or any other class [except maybe paladins and priests] are sent by their god to do anything.
Few precrowns I think are enough to persuade anyone gods don't give too much crap about Ancardia mortal world.

One may as well view CK as person who got bored of animal slaughterhood, religious desecration and chose to go find "the real" ChAoS and corruption. WTF his gonna worship on his quest? Of course Andor Drakon.

Orbs he takes as they clearly source of chaotic power [they can be used for gain and corruption if anyone wonders]. D48? well, after all that work would not he like to look at chaos gate, you know, the source of that chaos thing in this world and so on?

I don't think given allignemnt orientation and total boredom [what they were waiting on level prior?] it is surprising that citizens of D50 don't care who arrived and proceed on slaughterhood. That is assuming our trusty CK did not start hacking them first just out of habbit.

By the way if true CK wants to embrace chaos gate no killing is needed, just get greater balor from his position and teleport.

Well, closing fucking chaos gate makes no sense true. But one gets apropriate ending for such deed.

[auricbond]

These are good ideas.

On a larger scale, stronger diversity of experiences for every class would be nice.