Best r/c combo for ultra ending?

[Dlightfull]

Giant boars start to appear as a forest encounter from level 15 onwards.

From level 25 onwards a big group of additional possible encounters is added, so it is advisable to get the skull before level 25.

Since forest is the terrain that produces the least encounters, it MAY be advisable to increase the chance of encounters by being cursed or doomed and thus save game time. If you know what you're doing that is.

A good time to get the skull is thus right after eating the oracle, when you're on your way to the next altar to clear cursing and dooming. Just keep looking on forest squares and stay clear of roads (lone necromancer->ghuls->doomed characters don't want that).

That might be a bit dangerous, it's way better to just use a item that grants dooming and can be took off at will.

With slaying ammo any char could kill andy pretty fast and reliable, with good stats, imo.

[fir]

Giant boars start to appear as a forest encounter from level 15 onwards.

From level 25 onwards a big group of additional possible encounters is added, so it is advisable to get the skull before level 25.

Since forest is the terrain that produces the least encounters, it MAY be advisable to increase the chance of encounters by being cursed or doomed and thus save game time. If you know what you're doing that is.

I used just ring of doom and take off ev as soon as possobie,
(doom was not intrisical only when wearing this autocursing ring)
it was only a waste of one holy water or scroll of uncursing,

Once a boar killed my character as they got really great speed like 200
or attack like -60 or so and for early game char like archer
hunting for barbarions will be to strong, othervise i liked them as they just
worked like +2 St in old times, now probably cutted down

in present p23 i almost eat no corpses at all.. thats sad i think eating corpses should work till 99 only chances should be reduced like

- below 35 eating should gave 100% up
- below 45: 50 % chance of up
- below 55: 25 %
- below 64: 12 %
- below 75: 8 %
- below 85: 4%
- below 95: 2%

something like that, also this down effects are to much for me,
game of adom should contain the most pleasant things one
could get as this increases game fun
positive corpse diet is good thing instead that onbe could cut down
slaying ammo which is much to much overpovered

[fir]

Yeah, the biggest hurdle is finding the AoLS.

Not sure if quests og baba yagg are not worse.
Finding AOLS is not so big hurdle IMO - i always save khelly and
usually get AOLS
1) real chance to just find it or a wish
2) if no from drinking the pools (though getting intrinsic teleportation means more for me)
3) if no even if this anti wishmachine present probably one djini will be generated and that shold be almost 100% sure for anybody before khelly if im not wrong

(if im not wrong but i heard that should work)

- need a heap of junk potions in backpack (you will get it)
- deep them in ancient scythe to get heap of potions of raw chaos
- need a heap of junk rings
- dip them in raw hasos one by one to produce heap of uniform rings
- dip heap of rings in potion of exchange

heap of 25 is statisctically one djini..

Last nite i started wish machine i mean i got 9 djini (produced by exchanges i buyed from potion shops and those taken form the fool) and I obtained
15 djini just by wischin for potions of exchanges, (i mean i aobtained 6 new) a bit downsiide of this method is that it consumed quite heavy water and scrolls of identify and uncursing, but that was becouse i still got not so much rings and i needed to identify and uncurse the results of exchanges and wishes, If i would got yet more rings (just need to refill the ring shop couple of times) then i just could dip unidentified heaps (or I also could level up detect item status ) I was imapatient so i started it right now to check if it work, it works
I was also impatient and i spent 12 wishes on potions of strength (getting 24 - this damn option also consumes a ton of water as i need to bles poS one by one)
and now i got officially +75 Strength with my assassin

[_Ln_]

Not sure if quests og baba yagg are not worse.
Finding AOLS is not so big hurdle IMO - i always save khelly and
usually get AOLS
1) real chance to just find it or a wish
2) if no from drinking the pools (though getting intrinsic teleportation means more for me)
3) if no even if this anti wishmachine present probably one djini will be generated and that shold be almost 100% sure for anybody before khelly if im not wrong

1) this chance is really slim (unless you get a RoDS from clearing the Ice Queen vault)
2) not guaranteed as shown by statistics gurus here
3) have a really-really low chance of working for Khelly. without a ring shop you'll probably have your highest ring stack at something like 3-4-5 before Khelly

I've seen a couple of your FLGs and the amount of turns you use to play the game is absolutely insane. That may explain why you find all the stuff.

[fir]

1) this chance is really slim (unless you get a RoDS from clearing the Ice Queen vault)
2) not guaranteed as shown by statistics gurus here
3) have a really-really low chance of working for Khelly. without a ring shop you'll probably have your highest ring stack at something like 3-4-5 before Khelly

I've seen a couple of your FLGs and the amount of turns you use to play the game is absolutely insane. That may explain why you find all the stuff.

1) not realy slim as i found it dont know 20% (maybe more)
2) not guaranteed but like another 30% at least
3) not 3/4 stacks but you need like 30 of all and could stack it self
(if ancient scythe water works, but they say it works) - this way it is
like another 90%

i play heavy turns as mi intent is to get 99 maxed char in legal game
I could go thru coc quick too but i dont want, i prefer to be anarcadian tourist
(assassin already 3 years there mostly buying rings and potions, huh,
some kind fits to middle ages assassin,

[sweetnothing]

Maths continued...

In my post above I calculated the average number of wishes you could get from Darkforge. Now I want to present the probability to get at least one wish from there since everyone is concerned about exactly this quantity and I have spare time.

If p is a probability of drying a pool after a single sip and q is a probability of getting a wish from a single sip, then probability of not getting a wish from a pool [because it dried up] equals p(1-p)(1-q)/(1-(1-p)(1-q)). (I can put a proof here if someone is interested.) Let's call this number b.

If we have n pools, probability to get at least one wish from them is 1 - b^n.

Here are some values for p = 8/52, q = 1/52 and various n.

n probability to get a wish
------------------------------
1 0,2494983278
2 0,43674724
3 0,5772778617
4 0,6827463283
5 0,7619005889
6 0,8213059938
7 0,8658898495
8 0,8993501078
9 0,9244620876
10 0,9433086704
11 0,9574530623
12 0,9680684521
13 0,9760353199
14 0,9820144675
15 0,9865018278
16 0,9898695992
17 0,9923971173
18 0,9942940238
19 0,9957176553
20 0,9967860932
21 0,9975879575
22 0,9981897581
23 0,9986414104

As you see, for average 10 pools the probability to get a wish is around 94%.

So if you did not get a wish from Darkforge, it was not only statistically unexpected but also quite UNPROBABLE. It would be interesting to see how these theoretical numbers compare to those in practice.

EDIT: formula for b is wrong here as well as value of q. See posts of _Ln_ and grobblewobble below.

[_Ln_]

3) not 3/4 stacks but you need like 30 of all and could stack it self
(if ancient scythe water works, but they say it works) - this way it is
like another 90%

What I mean is that in normal game you will have one or two stacks of 3/4/5 rings and not more which have a really low chance of netting a RoDS. Building a stack of 19 rings is not feasible without a ring shop. Using the scythe is not a good idea because you need rings with DL higher than 1 to avoid explosions. Which are even more rare than DL1 rings such as fire resistance and stuff.

[_Ln_]

Maths continued...

In my post above I calculated the average number of wishes you could get from Darkforge. Now I want to present the probability to get at least one wish from there since everyone is concerned about exactly this quantity and I have spare time.

If p is a probability of drying a pool after a single sip and q is a probability of getting a wish from a single sip, then probability of not getting a wish from a pool [because it dried up] equals p(1-p)(1-q)/(1-(1-p)(1-q)). (I can put a proof here if someone is interested.) Let's call this number b.

If we have n pools, probability to get at least one wish from them is 1 - b^n.

Here are some values for p = 8/52, q = 1/52 and various n.

n probability to get a wish
------------------------------
1 0,2494983278
2 0,43674724
3 0,5772778617
4 0,6827463283
5 0,7619005889
6 0,8213059938
7 0,8658898495
8 0,8993501078
9 0,9244620876
10 0,9433086704
11 0,9574530623
12 0,9680684521
13 0,9760353199
14 0,9820144675
15 0,9865018278
16 0,9898695992
17 0,9923971173
18 0,9942940238
19 0,9957176553
20 0,9967860932
21 0,9975879575
22 0,9981897581
23 0,9986414104

As you see, for average 10 pools the probability to get a wish is around 94%.

So if you did not get a wish from Darkforge, it was not only statistically unexpected but also quite UNPROBABLE. It would be interesting to see how these theoretical numbers compare to those in practice.

If you really want to get reasonable results, you might want to consider the following code-dived info:

The chance to get a wish is not 1/52.
1) The base chance in 1.1.1 was to roll a specific event which by itself gives 50% chance to get doomed OR to get a wish. So it's at max 1/104 (we'll assume you are able to remove dooming to be eligible for a wish ASAP).
2) Version 1.2.0 added 9 2 (I presume) more events that deal with stat potential bringing it to 1/108. It, however, should have slightly increased the amount of sips you can get.

[fir]

What I mean is that in normal game you will have one or two stacks of 3/4/5 rings and not more which have a really low chance of netting a RoDS. Building a stack of 19 rings is not feasible without a ring shop. Using the scythe is not a good idea because you need rings with DL higher than 1 to avoid explosions. Which are even more rare than DL1 rings such as fire resistance and stuff.

if really those explosions do uccur thats worse, but anyway to get like 5 potions of exchange is not so uncommon IMO (as you get quite big chance to get some in exchange for boozes) then dip those rings you got (you should be able to dip ile 15-20 dips and you got quite big chance of obtaining one - an it not consumes time

- in my time i was lucky to found a potion and ring shops so guess how many
djini i get this method - nine if i am able to get nine some should really by able to get this one or two (two would be able ime but if this flag is set well this only be the double chance to get one :C

really i tested it so, i know what im saying
(in last two games i just both found one, and yet generated more, so for me get aols is not a trouble - i dont see it as a trouble... i may not rely on wandering and wathing to pick it up from the flor, i may also not quite rely on pools (as i prefer to stop drinking after getting telepo) but i really feel i could rely on my ability to organise few exhanges ;C

PS i may say to you what bad luck and probablility in practice means
(as i did many dips recently) ->

they say that probabloility of djini is like 1/25 (from my eye it would bo maybe something worse but probably sorta like that,
i dipped the heaps of 17-19 usually, youre lucky if you get djini in first dip
(dont know maybe 30% 'pessymistic chance' for it, [puer statystical would mean you may need 25+20 it is 45 dips but you could also need 25-20 = 5 this way]
usually if you will make 3 dips and no djini you become to feel unlucky, and probably I never met 5 dips with no djini

- so 1/25 statistical chance is like 100 tries to be practically sure,

usually it seems maybe like less then half dips bring djini (That strange if 1/25 is tru 2 dips is 35 so it should be more than one, but it is like that that on aerage you are less lucky than 1/25 but in exchange you sometimes get more density of haing luck - this is curious practical feel of probability
(so my outcome obseration is: over aerage luck brings a lower density of average proabability, and 1/25 density means that bad luck is at most 4-5 times worse but no more)

[grobblewobble]

Maths continued...

In my post above I calculated the average number of wishes you could get from Darkforge. Now I want to present the probability to get at least one wish from there since everyone is concerned about exactly this quantity and I have spare time.

If p is a probability of drying a pool after a single sip and q is a probability of getting a wish from a single sip, then probability of not getting a wish from a pool [because it dried up] equals p(1-p)(1-q)/(1-(1-p)(1-q)). (I can put a proof here if someone is interested.) Let's call this number b.

You made a mistake in the formula for b. This is easy to prove. If you fill in q=0 (you never get a wish), your formula yields 1 - p, while it clearly should be one.

The correct formula for b is easy to derive (as I already posted earlier in the thread). It is p / (p + q). Since p = 16 / 104 and q = 1 / 104, b = 16 / 17, and the chance of getting at least one wish from one particular pool before it dries is 1/17.