Originally Posted by
Blasphemous
One thing I did not see given due consideration in the original post was starting gear.
It's a live or die situation, with some races really bestowing a tremendous starting boost.
Elven chain mail is one of the most amazing things you can start a game with.
Many elven classes start with several other items - boots, gloves, caps, cloaks... they can all carry extra PV and just 1-2 points above the 5 PV of elven chain mail makes early game a walk in the park, even with a fragile elf.
I did count starting gear. Otherwise GE would have ended up much worse. The thing is, even including elven chain, there are usually a handful of other races that still end up with better starting PV and pretty much all of the others have starting To. Having 5 PV and 10 To is not nearly so good as having 3 PV and 20 To.
Another thing I did not see here covered in sufficient detail was how various races work out in the mid-to-late game.
Sure, but that's because mid-to-endgame counts for very little. Every character is going to have decent stats, maxed skills, huge damage, etc. Exactly what you end up with will depend on the RNG and your playstyle more than anything else. But most characters who make it passed the ToEF win the game, regardless of race and class.
Elves tend to shine in every respect because attribute-wise, they need only work on strength and toughness, which often reaches ~20 by the time I'm level 16-20, thanks to potions of potentials.
Yeah, but 20 St and To is still garbarge. A level 1 orc who was beaten by his parents starts with that. 20 St still means you probably need a girdle of carrying or take Porter/etc. talents to avoid being burdened with a modest endgame inventory.
Drakes still fail at learning at that point, dwarves still fail in the mana and dexterity departments, orcs are still poor casters, trolls still only have the advantage of St and To but suck at everything else.
Of all races, gray and high elves make up for all of their shortcomings by the end of mid game.
I've given elves good scores for casters already. For non-casters, of the stats you mention here, only Dx matters, and that is trainable fairly easily.
Still, I suspect I'm biased because as a long-time fan of elves and Tolkien's world, I just can't imagine playing a dwarf, an orc or a troll, save for a one-time shot that I only enjoy halfheartedly.
And if you love roleplaying, then by all means. Have fun. As I said at the top of the thread, my concern is about winning. And non-caster elves generally suck at that compared to other races.
One last thing I found lacking in the original post was how each race fits to a fast/slow playstyle.
People that play fast and close the gate in less than ~70k turns will find the drake/troll/dwarf advantages more alluring because they offer better performance out-of-the-box.
Elves on the other hand require more careful play and more time, hence people like me, who close the gate no earlier than 100k turns mark, enjoy the elven races more because after some extra effort is put, they outshine any other race.
In other words, elves are weaker. They need more grinding and effort to get the same results as races that are easier to win with. That's kind of my point.
Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.