Late game still unchallenging

[Jeremiah]

This is off-topic, but I do agree that mist-elf thief is among the hardest r/c combinations. With 8 hitpoints, even being poisoned by a spider can easily kill you.

Jeremiah - out of curiosity, what would you consider the hardest r/c combinations?

I have never given it much thought, I'll have to play around with them a bit to figure it out. But I think it extends a bit beyond just class/race combo, starting talents, and how many starting talents you get makes a huge difference (particularly, can you get the heir gift or not). As well as some classes, like merchant, can either have a stellar start or a horrible start, not just depending on starting items, but also what is available in the shop to buy. (Merchant taking boon to family, wealthy and very wealthy can start with 5k -6k to gear up in the shop, but if there is nothing good there then it is wasted talents. So this could either be a really awesome starting talents or a total waste.)

I think something that can die of aging, as you have to be much more careful when digging graves, and something that would not be able to use spells until mid to late game. Some hurtling combos can start with low to and very low str, making it so the hurtling has to berserk just to damage things, which results in a very compromised defense, but if you find a pile of stones in the shop, or very early you can bypass this. So the combat viability of the hurtling is gonna largely depend on what is in the shop. Also they have both cooking and food preservation, which makes getting your first precrown very easy, but then again getting precrown is not really hard for any class/race combo, just takes a bit more time. I typically lean away from elfs, yes they are weak in HP, but they have many other strengths, and I also lean away from trolls, as they are just crazy physically strong.

[manseman]

This is off-topic, but I do agree that mist-elf thief is among the hardest r/c combinations. With 8 hitpoints, even being poisoned by a spider can easily kill you.

Jeremiah - out of curiosity, what would you consider the hardest r/c combinations?

Sure, they're very hard to survive the early game with but as with all other challenging combinations you've usually mitigated most if not all weaknesses at the later stage of the game. Once you've gotten past the critical phase the difference in difficulty pretty much disappears. Hence, if you're looking for a more challenging late game picking a certain r/c combo won't help much.

[Kordianus]

Hence, if you're looking for a more challenging late game picking a certain r/c combo won't help much.

Yeah... this is exactly the reason for this thread. Late game basically every race/class combo is the same... The challenge is only in the beginning of the game. Later on I do not give an *f* if this is mist elf thief of orcish barbarian. They will be equally broken in my hands.

[manseman]

Yeah... this is exactly the reason for this thread. Late game basically every race/class combo is the same... The challenge is only in the beginning of the game. Later on I do not give an *f* if this is mist elf thief of orcish barbarian. They will be equally broken in my hands.

Yeah, so maybe rather than nerfing a bunch of things randomly just to increase the overall difficulty to cater to the very experienced, very (and this is 100% self inflicted) spoiled players it would perhaps make more sense to introduce r/c combos with weaknesses that actually matter throughout the game. Maybe some races cannot ever get TC, or can never get immune to paralysis or whatever. And then you can choose to play those combos if you want to, without making the game impossible for players who haven't broken the game for themselves by using spoilers.

[Jeremiah]

These mist elf/thief are actually decent range combatants, both magical and non-magical. They start with 6 to 8 mithril arrows and a bow (very nice starting damage output), coupled with a high dx, pe and stealth. On top of that, they can easily learn magic spells. They don't have to worry much about traps destroying items. Their only real weakness is the low hit points, and not being able to use iron. Working around the iron is really not that hard, and if you secure a reliable source of TP early on you can greatly mitigate the threat caused by low HPs. Probably why our friend here is so reliant on TP, as it circumvents much of the threat caused by the low HPs.

There is a lot you can make use of in this combo, if you know what you are doing, but I would certainly consider this a much harder more troublesome combo without heavy use of TP. And I can understand how someone who plays nothing but mist elf/thief would more readily become dependent on the use of TP.

To be honest I think what is really needed here, is for a player to just exercise a little self control. Such as in, setting an advancement path for the game and sticking to it (other words don't just march off and grab the TP wand), and to resist the urge to scum. If you are playing a mist elf/thief for the challenge of playing with the low HP, but you grab the wand and scum booze pots or scum a TP spell book then you are not fully engaging the difficulty of playing with the low HPs.

And people should maybe just appreciate the fact that this is a game you can play for 15+ years and still find enjoyment in it. I mean obviously the challenge of the game can't be that low, considering when it hooks a player it keeps them hooked for years. But if you want to increase your challenge, then move your toon away from magic and engage in toe to toe combat.

[Jeremiah]

Personally, I am enjoying the hurtling merchant, and have been for some time now. They do have the potential to come out of the gate very strong, but they can also do just the opposites and enter the world as the most pathetic thing ever. And I like that fact they change so much from game to game; it fits in with the random nature of the game.

[Kordianus]

Yeah, so maybe rather than nerfing a bunch of things randomly just to increase the overall difficulty to cater to the very experienced, very (and this is 100% self inflicted) spoiled players it would perhaps make more sense to introduce r/c combos with weaknesses that actually matter throughout the game. Maybe some races cannot ever get TC, or can never get immune to paralysis or whatever. And then you can choose to play those combos if you want to, without making the game impossible for players who haven't broken the game for themselves by using spoilers.

I actually considered an idea to create a race called sh.tling that would suck at everything ...
But to be honest I cannot really imagine how much restriction one would have to put on the race to make it challenging in the end game.

Their only real weakness is the low hit points, and not being able to use iron.

You made my day .

P.S.
Unicorn born Hurtling merchant it is. Let's have a vote on the forum then... Just please specify is this potion, scroll or wand merchant... Just so that we avoid confusion.

[Jeremiah]

I actually considered an idea to create a race called sh.tling that would suck at everything ...
But to be honest I cannot really imagine how much restriction one would have to put on the race to make it challenging in the end game.



You made my day .

P.S.
Unicorn born Hurtling merchant it is. Let's have a vote on the forum then... Just please specify is this potion, scroll or wand merchant... Just so that we avoid confusion.

I don't really care for whatever you feel you are trying to prove. You have already shown yourself to be someone who scums heavily, and all you plan to do is just scum some more.

[Kordianus]

I don't really care for whatever you feel you are trying to prove.

I am just curious what forum user's feel about these two race/class combos. Which one they find as more challenging.

[Jeremiah]

I actually considered an idea to create a race called sh.tling that would suck at everything ...
But to be honest I cannot really imagine how much restriction one would have to put on the race to make it challenging in the end game.



You made my day .

P.S.
Unicorn born Hurtling merchant it is. Let's have a vote on the forum then... Just please specify is this potion, scroll or wand merchant... Just so that we avoid confusion.

I would also like to point out that is is just another example of you taking a small part of a person's post out of context and then pretending somehow it justifies whatever nonsense you are trying to prove. I am not really sure what it is anymore, but I am sure that it is more important for you to prove it to yourself.

*EDIT - You know when you only hear what you want to hear, then are you not really talking to the other person, you are really just talking to your own imagination.