Wanting to win! Advice needed.

[Automater]

Hi guys,

I've been playing ADOM for probably close to ten years and sadly I haven't been able to win legitimately. I killed Andor once savescumming for wishes in dark forge, but anyway...

I would very much like to win the game legit, but I just can't seem to do it. I think my main problem in playing too quickly and haphazardly mid game. I don't think I've even managed to obtain the fire orb but maybe once. I like to play DE Beastfighters so I can skip the early game and head straight for the HMV and eat the Oracle corpse asap. I always level healing dodge athletics and herbalism first. I've made it up to level 20ish a number of other times with different R/C combos but it always seems I stumble into a doppelgänger lord, a mimic hive mind, or some other nasty thing and die. Ca you guys offer some advice for completing the ToEF? I like to play DE/HE or Troll assassins too. I try to level up skills with ranged, but I just can't seem to put it all together. Maybe there's a better race or class I should try? Obviously after playing for so long I feel like I should be able to win the game... It's truly a testament to this games longevity and replay value, and puts popular console games of the era to shame. I love it! Any advice or advanced tips are appreciated. Thanks!

[zliplus]

I'll start by discussing your class - beastfighters grow to be extremely strong at higher levels, but they are not that easy to play early. You have to be careful with what you attack and preferably raise archery as well to deal with tougher creatures (karmics, liches, etc). Probably the easiest class to start off with is weaponsmith - detect trap, fire resistance, and high strength off the bat makes the early going much safer, and their long term prospects are also excellent. Easy smithing means you can boost PV/DV extremely high in early or mid game with relatively low effort. Fire immunity at level 32 means you can always take on ToEF, even if you have to grind through IQD and random dungeons to do it.

[pjsb1]

You could always try the easy classes, my only 2 wins are a troll barbarian and a dwarven elementalist. I also had a wizard poised to win that died to a statue. Anyway, assassins and beastfighters are definitely harder to use than some other classes imo so I would recommend playing whichever one of the easier classes you like to play most. I would also recommend watching playthroughs that beat the game, that helped me a ton (even though I just wanted to watch it for fun, it's actually quite insightful).

[Blank4u47]

if you want to keep playing beastfighters, I highly recommend hurthling beastfighters, it was my first 'breakthrough' character, it got me past the ToEF the first time, mainly because they have great physical stats - minus str of course. But they gain ranks in slings very fast, and that quickly makes up for lack of decent ammo. Try male born on dragon for extra str.

I also recommend you do carpenter quest and puppy cave, some of the stuff I get in pc 6 gets me through mid-game.

Edit: I'd like to know what's been killing you in ToEF, it'd help me know what advice to give.

[SinsI]

I think the easiest character to play is Mist Elven Necromancer that starts with Heir - you get awesome weapon right from the start, very high Learning and spellbooks to use it (and close combat is far more dangerous than ranged ones), some awesome skills (food preservation, appraising, herbalism), undead slaves or golems (latter can be healed) to deal with cats, karmics and oozes and safely lead you in the Small Cave to blanket; you also start with some potions so you can luck into potion of invisibility to rob the Black Market. If you find a healing spellbook, you can go to the village dungeon and heal your golems to fix their main early game disadvantage (low HP) by getting lots of potions of ultra healing.

You might also want to aim for precrowning or Wish from a pool in the early game (a lot of the posts in the YAVP indicate that people either lucked into some powerful weapon in SMC or grinded to get 1-2 precrownings).

[yhal003]

I think the easiest character to play is Mist Elven Necromancer that starts with Heir - you get awesome weapon right from the start, very high Learning and spellbooks to use it (and close combat is far more dangerous than ranged ones), some awesome skills (food preservation, appraising, herbalism), undead slaves or golems (latter can be healed) to deal with cats, karmics and oozes and safely lead you in the Small Cave to blanket

And enough HP to get one-shot at level 20. This is one of the strangest combinations to be considered easiest. That said, some people manage to play decades as paladins and barbarians to finally win as mist elven thief or some such.

[SinsI]

And enough HP to get one-shot at level 20. This is one of the strangest combinations to be considered easiest. That said, some people manage to play decades as paladins and barbarians to finally win as mist elven thief or some such.

Failed paralyzation/stunning/confusion is enough to insta-kill any melee character (and is the usual reason my mid-level characters die), so they are not better off. Having enormous ranged magical attack, numerous utility spells and slaves to protect you is a much better solution than some extra HP.
Other characters have to rely on getting lucky - finding an outstanding item or an altar in a densely populated cave or a wish from a pool - while this one relies on not getting too unlucky.

I've just leisurely cleaned out a room full of 21 Ogre Magi as a lvl 10 Mist Necro. For practically every other combination - that would spell death.

[Soirana]

stunning/confusion is enough to insta-kill any melee character

ROFL.....
Stun is not an issue and you get free resistance on AMW, but in general it happens if you a crit for a lot and best solution is to pray which both heals and clears stun.
Confusion - needs resistance in some situations, but I can't see how necro/wizard fairs any better.
Para resist in an issue, but you have pools and neck slot to fix that.

Overall, yes magic is easier to play than melee, but what advantages has mistelf necro over drake wizard? [wizzie has lower magic costs, more diverse book selection and skill dices which allow to raise skills]

[Shinae]

Like SinsI said, if you constantly die to these confusion/paralysis things you should keep some sort of resistance always equipped.

For race/class combos I can recommend Dwarf Paladin. Good starting equipment and dwarves have good toughness, so you get good hp easily and detect traps is a great skill too. Paladins also have 1/3 chance to get crowned with sword Justifier. It does awesome damage and has some decent slaying properties too. Paladins have good melee, but also get ok casting abilities in mid game.

Tower of Eternal Flame is one of the hardest places in game. I do just about everything I can before it. Random dungeons, Ice queen, frost king jarl caves, High Kings, Dark Forge, Pyramid, Graveyard etc. Try finding Fire Immunity (Crowning or even worth wishing Red dragon scale mails imo to get it) if you haven't got immunity otherwise. Ring of Ice is great thing to have in tower. If I can't find one I try ring dipping to get one, usually I get one by dipping if all locations fail me.

I used to die around 20ies too. Then I learned what locations to clear and in what order. And that got me my first win. Took me 10 years too, you are not far from your first win. Beating ToEF is the real barrier here.

[SinsI]

Overall, yes magic is easier to play than melee, but what advantages has mistelf necro over drake wizard? [wizzie has lower magic costs, more diverse book selection and skill dices which allow to raise skills]

Much higher Learning and Mana (which is enormous boost for casters), Dodge, Appraising (thus early improvement of your armor), ultra weapon right from the start (wizards get useless wand of fire as Heir gift - what's the point if they can cast it themselves?), slaves to paralyze and melee cats and other enemies you don't want to touch...
You also get double the effect from PV in melee.

Drake wizards might get their spells cheaper - but Mist Necors get more PP so they can still cast all the high cost spells, and low cost spells quickly get the same cost reduction through Effectiveness since they can cast them more out of memory due to much higher Learning score.

About the only thing Mist Necros have to worry about is traps, though Alertness and Dodge help mitigate it somewhat, and it becomes non-problem after you boost you HP with blessed potions of Ultra Healing..