Speedy win

[zliplus]

Dwarf barbarian is a fun choice, they start with potions of booze for teleportation charges and are almost guaranteed to get Rolf's combo. The later could be sold to accelerate crowning but it is also decent enough to win the game with.

And even if you get a better main weapon, Rolf's axe returns when thrown making it a viable option for a character that hasn't trained up other missiles.

[JellySlayer]

Coming back to discussion, when I say about barbarians and playing against their specials, my concerns are not revolving only around role playing (although it's also important). In case of ranger it's simple: don't fight with double weapons. Requiring from barbarians to forget berserking, mighty blow and crowning gifts is more than a simple advice, it feels like raping (kind of "Oglaf Honor!" feeling).

The advice is "Play them like a regular character". It's not that hard. Same as what I tell people who want an easy win with a monk--forget about all of the restrictions and requirements and play as normal. Barbarians can berserk just fine (I don't recommend true berserking in the lategame, though I've done it before to good effect). Mighty/tremendous blow are understandably high risk/reward abilities. There's certain situations where they're useful, and many when they're not. Barbarian crownings gifts are middling. If you don't go out of your way to get them early, you'll probably have found better by the time you get around to crowning. Not so different from a lot of other classes. There's only a few classes (Paladin, Weaponsmith, Beastfighter) where your play strategy is really going to revolve around crowning in any consistent way.

Advising to play any character with specific amulet, which can be found after killing 2000 enemies or to avoid introductory quests is not the kind of "easy, non-extreme-tactics, non-scummy" experience I'm looking for.

All melee characters are equally vulnerable to paralysis. For intro quests, obviously you pick the ones that make the most sense to you. If you want to avoid a lot of early deaths, then avoid SMC/UD and PC until you're a bit stronger.

Thus, from my experience, if you want to win fast, without killing your characters and without scummy feeling, you should pick dwarf, drakeling or orc as a race and healer, ranger, paladin or assassin as a class. However I can be biased, because I didn't really try magic classes in version 1.2.0, which seems to be significantly easier than 1.1.1.

Dwarf, orc, drakeling I agree with. Paladin, I agree with. Any character that starts with 20+ To is going to have a much better chance of surviving early/mid game. Ranger/Healer/Assassin are all in the bottom half of winnable classes IMHO.

[Blank4u47]

And even if you get a better main weapon, Rolf's axe returns when thrown making it a viable option for a character that hasn't trained up other missiles.

Holy crap. I did not know that it's returning!! Gotta play an all axe dwarf character now.

[yhal003]

Barbarian crownings gifts are middling. If you don't go out of your way to get them early, you'll probably have found better by the time you get around to crowning. Not so different from a lot of other classes. There's only a few classes (Paladin, Weaponsmith, Beastfighter) where your play strategy is really going to revolve around crowning in any consistent way.

Barbs have 100% of getting something decent on crowning (skullcrusher is of limited utility but it can be used to clear darkforge and clear mana temple/D:50). They have 50% of getting amazing weapon. Paladins - Justifier is only 33% chance, Weaponsmith has 50% of getting one of BoW/RoI/Protector and can get Skullcrusher but the rest is junk. So as far as consistency goes, bars are better.

Of course if you are aiming <20k, you kind of need that Justifier/Vanquisher/BoW etc. But for <30k wins barbs have better chances.

[JellySlayer]

Barbs have 100% of getting something decent on crowning (skullcrusher is of limited utility but it can be used to clear darkforge and clear mana temple/D:50). They have 50% of getting amazing weapon.

Death's blade is terrible. Skullcrusher is a decent midgame weapon, but it's not great by any stretch of the imagination. Vanquisher and Grod are good, but not top-tier.

[yhal003]

Death blade is a two-hander (so strength bonus is amplified) with 33 average damage compared to one hadned Big Punch with 27 average. Eternium two-handed swords are just as good but by the time they are common, you can get basher talent line for extra 6 damage. Granted, my two chars who used death blade till the end did get it very early so I may be biased. In a regular game I prefer one-handed weapons and shield for protection, but for speedruns firepower is my priority. Death blade wielding barb confidently melees ACW, balors and archmage (given enough healing potions ). Barb with protector + Big Punch is not that much better and this an extreme case considering the value of Protector vs Death Blade. And if Death Blade is barely enough, Vanquisher solves all firepower problems.

Executor or Justifier are undeniably better, and so are BoW, but unless we are talking about extreme speedruns and those are not consistent by definition, barbarian crowning gifts are good enough.

[JellySlayer]

Death blade is a two-hander (so strength bonus is amplified) with 33 average damage compared to one hadned Big Punch with 27 average. Eternium two-handed swords are just as good but by the time they are common, you can get basher talent line for extra 6 damage. Granted, my two chars who used death blade till the end did get it very early so I may be biased. In a regular game I prefer one-handed weapons and shield for protection, but for speedruns firepower is my priority. Death blade wielding barb confidently melees ACW, balors and archmage (given enough healing potions ). Barb with protector + Big Punch is not that much better and this an extreme case considering the value of Protector vs Death Blade. And if Death Blade is barely enough, Vanquisher solves all firepower problems.

Yeah, that's the point: Death's Blade is barely better than Big Punch (arguably worse, since it's a two-hander). Big Punch is not an endgame weapon unless you're desperate. Death's blade is only marginally better than your Heir gift, for that matter.

For speedrunning barbarian (or almost any class), my go-to weapon is rune-covered trident on Raven character. Guaranteed at level 16 (generally before you'd be able to crown unless you've been very lucky or are much more sneaky than I am), easy to get, slays all important bosses, gains benefits from polearm skill that you're going to use anyway, gives huge defensive bonuses and useful intrinsics. In a pinch, works as a missile against ghost lords or something. In most of the battles you care about, it does just as well as Vanquisher, without the downsides.

Most of your turncount on a speedrun isn't killing stuff anyway, so a small amount of extra damage isn't as important as using an efficient route and not dying.

[yhal003]

Heir gift has 18 average damage. Death blade is 33 + 6 for talents. I wouldn’t call that "marginally better" . In speedruns I almost always sell rob, so crowning is very early, unless merchants do not have enough gold. Still, trident is an interesting choice. Will try it sometime. Although anything that isn't a demon or undead (archmage, for instance) looks problematic. It does 25 average damage and gets no two-handed bonuses.

It isn't just about turncount spent, it is about being able to kill high PV monsters. Without wands or slaying ammo because speedrunners are not guaranteed to get any of it.

[zliplus]

Barbs of all classes have got to have relatively low concern on being able to kill high PV monsters, what with their strength, class powers, etc...