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Thread: Fixing Class Powers

  1. #51
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bieks View Post
    When did the XP get nerfed anyway? The last 10 characters I've won the game with have all hit level 50 well before D:50, and I have not scummed at all in those games. I find it very surprising that there seems to be a significant portion of at least this thread that never hit level 50 upon completing a game. Do you guys just skip the ice queen domain or the two guaranteed greater vaults or something? What places do you guys not visit?
    For myself, a typical gate closer is 60000-80000 turns. Typical character is probably melee class, fairly low powered (drakeling farmer, say)--I basically never play casters except maybe the odd druid. Areas I'd skip would probably be: Maze, Stone Circle, Rift, Bugs, probably 4-5 of the random dungeons, and unnecessary ultra areas (BDC, etc.). I usually visit the IQD just before ToEF (or High Kings if I need the wand), so maybe level 18, though I normally don't fight anything in there if I can help it. Greater vaults I would normally clear giants if I felt strong enough. Undead vaults I never bother with, but I might grab the artifacts. Red dragons I'd probably attempt if I ran into it on D:45/6, but I'd probably pass at IQD as it's doubtful I'd be strong enough to get anywhere against them at that point. If I were going for ultra I'd definitely clear both as long as they weren't undead. Cat lord usually dies in my games, though his xp is not so good now.

    I usually straight dive through all levels below Casino unless there's a vault, temple, or something else I find interesting--if I hear a *THUMB*, I'll usually scout the level for the moloch/titan. My typical route puts me at D:50 around level 35, with maybe 8 million xps. If I clear the balors, I might end up at 42-44, somewhere in the 12-15 million range.

    I'm pretty sure on my most recent ultra, I followed more or less this route, clearing a greater giant vault in IQD, doing BDC, then I killed AKW, Casino shopkeeper, and wished for an emperor moloch to get above 45 rather than fight the undead vault on D:45 (character was an orc barb, so undead vault is non-starter).

    When I was speedrunning this summer, I was skipping basically all non-essential content (except UD which I found helped getting to level 13 at the right time, and I think I'd usually attempt Darkforge for xp if I could) and exploring as little of each level as possible. My fastest routes were in the 25000 turn range, and was hitting D:50 typically just below level 30, so maybe 3 million xp total.
    Last edited by JellySlayer; 12-07-2016 at 09:32 AM.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  2. #52
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    Nerfing the XP from balors is totally reasonable, but it really needs to be balanced by higher experience rewards across the board for all other monsters. Or lowered experience requirements, that would be the same thing.

    Ending the game at level 35-40 in a normal game is not fun, and needing to spend a wish or kill many EG's to meet level requirements for Filk in case of an ultra is bad.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoobnahr View Post
    there has been a fairly extensive discussion about the xp curve in the "tackling the new quests and maps for ADOM" thread stickied at the top of the page. The general consensus is that some of the very experienced players here tend to not fully explore the levels of the lower CoC and as a result are walking into D:50 fairly substantially below level 50... I had the same experience as you, reaching level 50 just before or just after entering D50, but our experience is clearly not universal. The opinion that XP needs a buff appears to be almost (not quite) unanimous among the ancient members here, but that is overall a pretty small and elite pool of players...
    Okay, so walk me through this. Here's a .vlg of I game I've been playing with this thread in mind. Character is human fighter, so somewhat fast leveler. I've collected all five orbs, and am in principle ready to go for D:50. Turncount is currently just under 58000... not a speedrun, but not particularly slow either. I'm level 33, with about 6.5 million XP accumulated so far. I'm somewhat fast, at speed 128, though that's fairly recent (RoTMC), but would effect XP from Archmage, Earth Temple, and D:46 vault. I've done all of CoC and Unreal Caves (minus BDC), plus IQD/FJ, plus Darkforge and High Kings, and early game stuff. Cleared both greater vaults entirely, both giants (1 boss variety). I haven't done complete exploration of every level in lower CoC, but let's say maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of each level on average. And at this point, I'm a third of the way to level 50: I need 14 million more XP. Where do I get the rest of it?

    Code:
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                     Screenshot
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    
           ##############################
           #......./........./...........#
         ###..>....###########......<....#
         #./.......#         #...........#
         #.#.......#         ############                ######
         #.#.......#                                    ##....##
         #.#########                                   ##......##
         #.#                                     #######..._....#
         #.#       #########   ###########       #./.^*.........#
         #.#       #.......#   #.........#     ###[######......##
       ###/#########.......#   #.........#    ##....##  ##....##
       #...../...../.......#   #.........#   ##....*.##  ######
       #.....#######.......#####.........#   #....}...#
       #.....#     #......./.../.....[...#   #....*...#
       #.....#     #.......#####.........#   ##....[.##
       #.....#     #.......#   #.........##   ##.@..##
       #######     #########   ##########*#######}###
                                        ##]*.*].*##
                                         #########
    Level50       St:32  Le:29  Wi:31  Dx:39  To:29  Ch:16  Ap: 4  Ma:19  Pe:17 N+
    DV/PV: 36/69   H: 610(610)    P: 30(148)     Exp: 33/6491849   D: 44  Sp: 123
    Satiated Burdened
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Character Information
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Level50    St:32  Le:29  Wi:31  Dx:39  To:29  Ch:16  Ap: 4  Ma:19  Pe:17  N+
    DV/PV: 36/69   H: 610(610)   P: 30(148)   Exp: 33/6491849   M: 57639
    
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Background Information
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Name: Level50             Race: female Human        Class: Fighter
    Eye color: light blue     Hair color: yellow        Complexion: pale
    Height: 5'7"              Weight: 123 pounds
    Age: 29 (grown-up)
    Star sign: Candle         Birthday: 11/Candle (day 281 of the year)
    
    YOUR HISTORY:
            Your parents belong to the middle class. They are average people
     living in average quarters. Your father is a craftsman of mediocre talent.
            As a child your parents cared a lot for you. Despite all
     circumstances you enjoyed a happy and fine childhood.
            As a youth you spent a lot of time in the wilds exploring woods and
     generally enjoying your freedom. You had a lot of fun and learned to value
     the treasures of nature.
            As a young adult you left your home because of trouble with your
     parents. They opposed your plans for the future without understanding your
     wishes. Thus you decided to live on your own. You wandered through the
     country for many years, growing older and wiser and learning many things.
            You decided to become a Fighter.
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Weapon Skills
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Melee weapon           Lvl   Hit   Dam   DV   Level          Required marks
    ---------------------  ---   ---   ---   --   -------------  --------------
    Unarmed fighting         2    +2    +0   +0   basic                30
    Daggers & knives         8    +7    +4   +2   excellent            417
    Clubs & hammers          1    +1    +0   +0   basic                25
    Maces & flails          12   +12    +8   +4   Mastery              4049
    Swords                  10    +9    +6   +3   excellent            571
    Axes                     9    +7    +6   +2   excellent            860
    Whips                    1    +1    +0   +1   basic                25
    Pole arms                1    +1    +0   +0   basic                25
    Twohanded weapons        9    +8   +12   +3   excellent            155
    Staves                   1    +1    +0   +1   basic                25
    
    Missile weapon         Lvl   Hit   Dam   Ra   Level          Required marks
    
    ---------------------  ---   ---   ---   --   -------------  --------------
    Slings                   5   +10    +7   +1   skilled              61
    Bows                     3    +6    +4   +1   basic                14
    Crossbows                8   +16   +12   +2   excellent            317
    Thrown axes & hammers    0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    Thrown daggers           0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    Thrown rocks & clubs     0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    Thrown spears            0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    Boomerangs & scurgari    0    +0    +0   +0   unskilled            7
    
    Shields                Lvl   DV               Level          Required marks
    
    ---------------------  ---   ---              -------------  --------------
    Shields                 12   +24              Mastery              2130
    
    Damage caused with your melee weapons:
    --------------------------------------
    Right hand: +80 bonus to hit, 6d5+48 damage
    
    Damage caused with your missile weapons:
    ----------------------------------------
    Ammunition: 1, base range: 16, +85 bonus to hit, 20d4+52 damage
    
    
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                       Spells
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
       Fire Bolt   :     1,  19pp     (Effectivity: +0)
       Frost Bolt  :     1,  23pp     (Effectivity: +0)
       Slow Monster:     6,  13pp     (Effectivity: +0)
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                       Skills
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
      Archery ..................100    (superb)       [+1d3]
      Athletics ................100    (superb)       [+2d4]
      Backstabbing .............100    (superb)       [+1]
      Climbing ................. 90    (great)        [+2d4]
      Disarm traps ............. 39    (fair)         [+3d4]
      Dodge .................... 94    (superb)       [+1d5]
      Find weakness ............100    (superb)       [+1d3]
      First aid ................100    (superb)       [+1d5]
      Food preservation ........100    (superb)       [+1d3]
      Haggling ................. 44    (fair)         [+2d4]
      Herbalism ................ 71    (great)        [+1d3]
      Listening ................100    (superb)       [+1d5]
      Literacy ................. 63    (good)         [+1]
      Metallurgy ............... 14    (mediocre)     [+4d5]
      Smithing ................. 25    (mediocre)     [+4d4]
      Stealth ..................100    (superb)       [+3d4]
      Swimming .................100    (superb)       [+1d3]
      Tactics ..................100    (superb)       [+1d3]
      Two weapon combat ........ 63    (good)         [+3d3]
      Ventriloquism ............  8    (poor)         [+3d5]
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Effects of Corruption
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Your skin is covered by tough scales (PV: +8, Dx: -6, Ap: -4).
    Your mouth has turned into a writhing mass of prehensile tentacles (Dx: +6,
    Ap: -15).
    Your bones are made from bronze (Dx: -2, DV: -2, PV: +3).
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      Inventory
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Total weight: 6683 stones                Carrying capacity: 8675 stones
    
    He: uncursed Iron Crown of Havlor (-6, -6) [+12, +12] {Le+4}          [65s]
    Ne: uncursed ankh                                                      [3s]
    Bo: uncursed eternium plate mail of the sea (-1, -2) [-1, +13]       [240s]
    Gi: blessed girdle of carrying [+0, +0]                               [15s]
    Cl: uncursed cloak of protection [+0, +6]                             [20s]
    RH: blessed silvery two-handed sword "Vanquisher" (+3, 6d5+3) [-3, +0][300s]
    LH: -
    RR: uncursed ring of slaying (+6 melee damage, +6 missile damage)      [1s]
    LR: blessed ring of the master cat [+0, +5] {Dx+16} (+16 spd)          [1s]
    Br: uncursed rustproof bracers of regeneration [+0, +0]               [18s]
    Ga: uncursed elemental gauntlets (-1, +0) [+0, +3]                    [10s]
    Bo: blessed seven league boots [+1, +0]                               [30s]
    MW: uncursed heavy crossbow (+3, +6)                                 [140s]
    Mi: blessed obsidian quarrel "Thunderstroke" (+8, 20d4+8)              [2s]
    Tl: -
    
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Killed Monsters
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    3388 monsters perished under her attacks.
    
    The following monsters were vanquished:
          1 acid vortex
         13 air demons
         11 air elementals
          4 air grues
          1 ancient blue dragon
          1 Ancient Chaos Wyrm
          2 ancient karmic dragons
          2 ancient minotaurs
          1 ancient red dragon
          1 Ancient Stone Beast
          1 ancient white dragon
          3 animated armors
          5 animated trees
          4 ankhegs
          5 annihilators
          6 annis hags
          3 assassins
         11 bandits
          1 banshee
          4 barbarians
          4 barbarian leaders
          1 battle bunny
         26 berserkers
          1 berserker emperor
          6 berserker lords
          1 berserker prince
          3 big dogs
          1 black dragon
          1 black druid
          7 black hurthlings
          1 black slayer
          2 black unicorns
          2 black wizards
         18 blink dogs
          2 blue baby dragons
          1 blue dragon
          1 bone golem
          3 brown bears
          4 brown worms
          4 bugbears
          2 bulettes
          1 bunny master
          3 carrion crawlers
          2 cave bears
          7 cave fishers
         13 cave lizards
          9 cavemen
          1 Chaos Archmage
          4 chaos brothers
          1 chaos diplomat
          6 chaos eyes
          3 chaos lizards
          5 chaos mutants
          2 chaos plague bearers
         19 chaos rats
         97 chaos servants
          2 chaos sisters
          1 chaos spawn
          6 chaos spiders
          1 chaos viper
          2 chaos warlords
         40 chaos warriors
          4 chaos wizards
          9 claw bugs
          2 clay golems
          4 clay statues
          2 cobras
          1 cooshoo
         16 corpse fiends
          3 crystal statues
          2 cutpurses
          3 dark elven archers
          6 dark elven lords
          5 dark elven priestesses
          6 dark elven warriors
          2 dark elven wizards
         15 dark orcs
          6 dark sages
          3 death oozes
          2 diamond golems
         40 dire wolves
          7 displacer beasts
          7 doppelgangers
          1 doppelganger king
          3 doppelganger lords
          2 dwarves
          1 dwarven artificer
          5 dwarven chaos knights
         34 earth elementals
          3 ettins
          2 eyes of destruction
         18 fire beetles
         14 fire demons
          8 fire drakes
          4 fire elementals
          8 fire giants
         38 fire giant kings
          2 fire grues
         22 fire lizards
          4 flesh golems
          3 floating eyes
        125 fomorian giants
        118 frost giants
         51 frost giant berserkers
         43 frost giant jarls
          2 frozen ones
          2 gargantuan rats
          1 gargoyle
         12 gelatinous cubes
         22 ghosts
         10 ghost bats
          1 ghost king
          4 ghost lords
         66 ghuls
          2 giant ant queens
         50 giant ant warriors
         13 giant ant workers
         16 giant bats
          1 giant bee queen
          9 giant bee warriors
          5 giant bee workers
          5 giant centipedes
          2 giant frogs
          9 giant lizards
          2 giant raccoons
         31 giant rats
          2 giant rust monsters
          4 giant slugs
          7 giant spiders
          4 gibbering mouthers
         23 gnolls
          3 gnoll chieftains
         37 goblins
         13 goblin berserkers
          4 goblin chieftains
         28 goblin rockthrowers
         14 goblin slavemasters
         17 gray oozes
          1 great karmic wyrm
         16 greater chaos servants
          2 greater claw bugs
          3 greater daemons
          2 greater mimics
          1 greater moloch
          5 greater mummies
          3 greater water elementals
          1 green blob
          1 green hag
         14 green slimes
          1 green worm
          2 gremlins
          5 griffons
          2 grizzly bears
          7 harpies
          2 hell hounds
          9 hill giants
          2 hill giant chieftains
          4 hill orcs
          7 hill orc sergeants
          6 hippogriffs
          8 hobgoblins
          4 hobgoblin chiefs
          6 hobgoblin leaders
          6 homunculi
          7 huge bats
          1 hydra
         55 hyenas
          3 ice elementals
          6 ice lizards
          2 ice statues
          1 ice vortex
          3 imps
         24 jackals
          3 jackal demons
          4 jackalweres
          4 karmic lizards
          1 king cobra
         55 kobolds
         10 kobold chieftains
         17 kobold shamans
         15 large bats
          1 large dog
         26 large gnolls
         46 large kobolds
         27 large orcs
          3 large snakes
         34 large spiders
          8 least daemons
          1 lesser daemon
          5 leucrottas
          4 liches
          2 lightning lizards
         13 lizard men
          8 magebane eyes
         13 magedoom eyes
          1 margoyle
          7 master liches
          2 master mimics
          1 master necromancer
          1 Master Summoner
         11 master swordsmen
          5 mimics
          2 mimic hiveminds
          1 minotaur
          3 molochs
         33 mummies
          1 mummy lord
          5 necromancers
          5 ochre jellies
         40 ogres
          2 ogre kings
         59 ogre lords
          4 ogre magi
          1 oracle
         42 orcs
          5 orc chieftains
         10 orc scorchers
          5 outlaws
          4 outlaw leaders
          8 owlbears
         32 pit vipers
          5 pixies
          5 pixie archers
          2 purple worms
          2 quasits
          1 quickling
          1 quickling king
          2 quickling lords
          3 rabid dogs
          9 raiders
          1 raider lord
         55 rats
          5 ratling archers
          2 ratling duelists
          5 ratling fencers
          5 ratling master thieves
          5 ratling thieves
          4 ratling traders
          4 ratling warlords
          8 ratling warriors
          4 rattlesnakes
          2 red baby dragons
          2 red dragons
         12 red worms
          2 revenants
          1 rust monster
         77 shadows
          5 shadow centipedes
          3 shadow lords
          3 shadow trolls
          2 shambling mounds
          5 silver wolves
          3 skeletal kings
         13 skeletal warriors
         70 skeletons
          4 slow shadows
          1 Snake from Beyond
          3 snow golems
         16 spectres
          6 staring eyes
         33 steel golems
          7 steel horrors
          6 steel zombies
        130 stone giants
         47 stone giant lords
          7 stone golems
         30 stone grues
          1 stone ooze
          6 stone snakes
         20 stone statues
          8 swordsmen
          8 tarantulas
          9 titans
         14 trolls
          9 troll berserkers
          8 troll chiefs
          1 undead chaos dwarven berserker
          5 vampires
         19 vapor rats
          1 viper
          7 water demons
          3 water elementals
          6 water grues
          8 water snakes
          6 wererats
         10 werewolves
          4 werewolf lords
         41 white baby dragons
          1 white dragon
          9 white worms
         67 wights
          2 will o'wisps
         42 wolves
         37 wraiths
          8 writhing masses of primal chaos
          3 yellow oozes
         36 yetis
         94 zombies
    
    Dispatched the legendary chaos warrior gOdSgRaVe the Immortal.
    
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    Achievements
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    She survived for 0 years, 40 days, 5 hours, 31 minutes and 25 seconds (57639
    turns).
    Level50 visited 128 places.
    Her strength score was modified by +14 during her career.
    Her learning score was modified by +9 during her career.
    Her willpower score was modified by +20 during her career.
    Her dexterity score was modified by +10 during her career.
    Her toughness score was modified by +12 during her career.
    Her charisma score was modified by +4 during her career.
    Her appearance score was modified by +11 during her career.
    Her mana score was modified by +9 during her career.
    Her perception score was modified by +6 during her career.
    She was the champion of the arena.
    She brought an infamous raider lord to justice.
    She adhered to the principles of the Cat Lord and thus rose to great fame.
    She saved Khelavaster from certain death.
    
    
    
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   Playing Time
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    You played for 6 hours, 30 minutes and 1 second.
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 Version Information
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Ancient Domains Of Mystery
    Release 69
    Windows Deluxe Build: Sep 4 2016 12:46:16
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    19

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    You actually spared cats? Incredible!
    Wins: Orc Barbarian, Human Archer, Troll Assassin

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,739

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    I don't usually, but I found 7lbs fairly early the game, so it wasn't that hard to maneouver around them. I think I only ran into maybe 6 or 7 of them in total, so not that big of a deal.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Upper Chicagoland
    Posts
    5

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    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    Some ideas for abilities for Weaponsmiths:
    1) reforge non-artifact item with a higher metal. Lvl 12 mithril, lvl 25 adamantium, lvl 40 eternium.
    2) add extra metal layer as protection to an item. Item becomes much heavier but less prone to destruction/damage.
    I like it. Especially the first one. The second one could be termed "plating," e.g. an "uncursed eternium-plated mithril longsword of the sun."
    "Whoever walks with truth generates life."
    -Sumerian Proverb

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