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Thread: RNG, the game!

  1. #1
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    Default RNG, the game!

    So a short intro, I was playing as a ratling with their short lifespans, got attacked by a ghost king, didn't know how much of a jerk these guys were and when I saw my character sheet I was 45 years old from a single attack. Did the tower of flames, and just wanted to go to the cat lord to get my ring and kill some damn cats after avoiding them for so long. I knew I was screwed if a ghost lord/king got to me in those graveyards or something, so I went to lvl 31 of the ID and back hoping to find a potion of longevity, or at least a potion of youth, with no luck. Spent a long time looking for those damn potions until I decided to just go for it. Found one ghost bastard but managed to kill him at range, then at the banshee level one jerk ghost just showed up in a long corridor between me and a trapped jammed door in such a way I could not have done anything about it. My 110 DV was useless and I just died as soon as the damn thing got to me.


    So to the point of the thread, if I need a damn potion of longevity, or whatever item it is, what am I supposed to do about it? This game seems to be giving me some sort of mmo style RNG, and I do not care for it. Is there a specific place I should go to farm for items( like potions of longevity or scroll of cure corruption) ? I just got the game this month on steam, after some silly deaths I realized what kind of game this was and just did a wizard with permadeath off to learn the ropes, managed to close the gate at lvl 48, but even then I still never found a ton of spells, and didn't find a single potion of curre corruption .


    Another thing that is kinda related but not really about 2 situations: 1) what do to in the banshee room if the RNG didn't send some bees my way? 2) I figured there are some corruptions which completey ruin a wizard game ( like the babbling mouth one ), what am I supposed to do if I get one of those but no way to cure corruptions? Reset? I know you can get some corruption cure from quests, but they are limited and I'm not too comfortable just relying on those.



    Thanks much for the helps.

  2. #2
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    The game has enough things in it to combat most rng related problems, occasionally you can get terrible rng that there is nothing to be done about but for the most part this isnt the case, I can think of easy solutions that are replicable in virtually every game to your problems.

    As for the bees, you should always find a bee nest prior to the banshee level, however if your beeswax were to burn away or something similar then it can be a real nuisance, wedding rings are a possible solution or attempting to search for another beehive, potions of exchange can be of help here.

    as for the ghosts, you shouldnt need to get hit by them. be faster if you arent trained in ranged/spells, heck you even said yourself you didn't know how nasty they were. If you did, I'm sure another method to help you would come to mind. think wands, potions (exhange?), scrolls (teleport?), undead slaying ammo, running in coward, drop things if you are burdened if you have to out run, wanding anything in the way to one shot for time. The list goes on. Also eat a blink dog corpse from the first blink dog you find by making it summon more and then always keep the teleport wand from assassin guild, this should be a great defense mechanism. Potions of booze are easily obtainable if you haven't already found a big stack.

    while some corruptions are particularly nasty, you can always find potions of cure corruption, keethrax's corpse can give you one, drop everything to run full speed and burn when rotten if you can. most of the time i make it even without burning. there is one always in high mountain village, using that wand of teleport i mentioned earlier getting through small cave shouldnt be an issue. especially when combined with any mapping capability. feel free to be comfortable relying on even just one pocc to start. many corruptions wont be a big deal. more corruption removal can be gotten from dwarven mystic, saving khalevster, ice queens first mission, which is pretty important to do regardless for the potential artifact drops and vaults.

    So I certainly wouldnt call it RNG, the game. Many people have even beaten the game multiple times in a row. Playing the game effectively requires not only adept knowledge of the game but patience and proper decision making. I lose so often to things that are purely my fault and could have been easily prevented. The only times where I lose to pure rng is the beginning of the game when i'm taking massive risks for massive gains because at worst its 15 minutes til I die and start a new character. diving to HMV, puppy cave on weak starting characters, etc. but even that isnt rng seeing as I could have first taken the newbie dungeon into keethrax cave for a much safer route.

    Hope that helped. Keep working on those skills, because in my opinion skills heavily outweight rng in this game.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by butthurt View Post
    short lifespans, got attacked by a ghost king---
    just wanted to go to the cat lord to get my ring and kill some damn cats after avoiding them for so long.
    lvl 31 of the ID and back hoping to find a potion of longevity, or at least a potion of youth, with no luck.

    farm for items( like potions of longevity or scroll of cure corruption) ?
    never found a ton of spells, and didn't find a single potion of curre corruption .


    1) what do to in the banshee room if the RNG didn't send some bees my way?
    2) I figured there are some corruptions which completey ruin a wizard game
    As wizard just cast invisibility and go around the ghost. You do not need to kill everything on the screen and ghosts do not see invisible.

    Killing cats after explodes the ring, which sort of beats the point of avoiding them initially.

    Wizards have Alchemy --- eventually you get recipes for youth, longevity and deafness. The latter can help with banshee (also keeping her out of scream range), but one set of bees ought to happen in CoC above banshee.

    mass tree killing in the animated forest is probably the best farming method.

    For spells go library it does have ton of spellbooks... for corruption -- HMW gives scroll, library through stealth and ministrel multiple scrolls, druid gives potions for chaos corpses (for non chaotic chars) -- all orb guardians and black unicorns and some others count. Black unicorns are farmable in wilderness (in theory).
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  4. #4
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    Normal ghosts arent that dangerous, use invis, wands and undead slaying ammo against the lords and kings, or just invis and avoid.
    Don't forget tactics setting (F1 - F7), in coward mode they have a really hard time hitting you especially if you have a decent shield.

    With rats, humans and orcs I bless the longevity I find but rarely go out of my way for them, probably used a spare wish for it when I've found a several for the orcs but thats a rare occurancy.

    1) Between dwarf town and banshee a bee hive is garantueed. I think potion of deafness also work.
    2) There are a decent amount of corruption removals (and the unicorn quest), but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and try to deal with the situation.
    Even wizards can use some melee/missile practice, despite double marks 5-6 shouldn't be much trouble (you can probably go to 10 marks if you put some work into it) and thats decent to handle a lot.

  5. #5
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    Is there a specific method to look for certain items you need? Like doing a specific dungeon with a cavernous level, equiping a certain item while trying it, pickpocketing? Doing it with the banshee seems a little too far into the game. I know about DLs and all that. As for the ghosts, I was playing a ratty monk, had plenty of methods to run away from it as I did a few times I encountered them, the last one really caught me on a corner though and got through to me while trying to run past it in coward tactics. The wiki says the stronger ones can take a whole century from you in a single hit, which just seems way too risky when playing as those short lived races who could deal with otherwise all other situations at the time ( which I felt my character was), hence my obsession with eternal youth.

    Also am a little paranoid with background corruption and all, feels like the places I need to go to get some good exp will punish me in a severe way with some corruptions if I can't do the quests for the potions/scrolls of corruption removal. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but this is the part I'm struggling the most with right now. Playing as a rat without food preservation, I could never get the corpses to the druid fast enough before they rotted. Not that experienced with background corruption yet since on the game I was learning I turned it off.

    Thanks everyone for the help so far, appreciate it.

  6. #6
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    You can pretty much forget background corruption.
    If you do some time consuming stuff like smithing and/or a lot of wilderness walking you'd get an extra corruption or two but I wouldn't say it's worse than that.

    What you can do to maybe mitigate grindy stuff a little is to wear +ap gear, rats in particular tend to have appearance score lower even than orcs.
    Still as long as you don't get the game breaking corruptions it's not a biggie.

    It feels as if getting hit by corruptors adds a lot more than background corruption.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by blunk View Post
    You can pretty much forget background corruption.
    If you do some time consuming stuff like smithing and/or a lot of wilderness walking you'd get an extra corruption or two but I wouldn't say it's worse than that.

    What you can do to maybe mitigate grindy stuff a little is to wear +ap gear, rats in particular tend to have appearance score lower even than orcs.
    Still as long as you don't get the game breaking corruptions it's not a biggie.

    It feels as if getting hit by corruptors adds a lot more than background corruption.

    I see, that's certainly reassuring. I hated this game at first with all the item breaking and stat draining, but I'm glad I kept at it it's quite good and those things can be work around.

    Now I just need to know if there's a cheesy strategy you pro players use when you want an item in particular.

  8. #8
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    With time you get to adjust your playstyle to the items RNG gives you.
    To an extent you can farm for some but it's unreliable.
    Better method is to set yourself in a position to get what you need rather than what you want.
    I play elves almost exclusively so I just berserk all ghosts without regard for the aging attacks.
    With that of course I need to mitigate low toughness and no initial healing but then I set myself up with a class that has herbalism and/or gardening to cover that.

    As far as I know, at least one beehive is guaranteed in CoC before banshee.
    She is also not very fast and the deadly wail has a range of 4 so she can be kited with undead slayers without being deaf, if you have 7LB and decent perception.

    Finally, try to gather as many rings as you can, until they stack in piles of 5 or more (up to 19, the more the better).
    Then dip them into blessed potions of exchange at DL8 for a small chance of getting a RoDS. On higher DL it's useful to dip them as well, to get some nice stuff like rings or regen or elemental mastery.
    Blessed RoDS equals a wish which in turn equals getting any non-artifact item that you desire, with the exception of affixed items.
    It's a good strategy to not use wishes too early and instead exhaust your chance of randomly finding what you need in the dungeons.
    At least you will eliminate some crucial items that way and might need to only wish for one specific item that's missing.
    There are several guaranteed sources of corruption removal in the game, including some that can be obtained with little effort in the first few thousand turns of starting the game.
    They are good for when your first corruption turns out to be something nasty that requires immediate removal.

    One of the stategies to getting a particular item is to know exactly what DL it corresponds to and its rarity and then finding the right place for that.
    Sometimes, when big room is generated at D:7, I will read a scroll of danger to raise DL to 8 and farm for RoDS that way.
    It's a desperate and scummy method but in the process, you get to collect potions of water, basic scrolls, and maybe grow herbs so it's multitasking pushed to the extreme.

    If you find a ring shop somewhere, make sure to adjust the DL to 8 and keep buying all of the rings so the shop restocks.
    Eventually a RoDS is bound to appear.

    Plan ahead - if you sip from pools to get a wish, make sure you have a spare blink dog corpse safely stored in a shop to regain tele control and a nearby altar to remove cursedoom.
    Dig out treasure graves? Make sure you have means of on-demand teleportation and confusion resistance.
    Want to learn lots of spell charges from spellbooks? Collect +Le items from the start and equip when needed.

    Recycle. You have a bunch of potions you don't need? -> chaos alchemy.
    Scrolls/rings you don't need? -> potions of exchange.
    You possess a precious item you don't want lost to elements? Bless it, improve it with scrolls of protection if applicable, wear rings of ice/fire, sidestep from direct line of fire to avoid bolts, learn detect traps and wear ring of searching to avoid random fireball traps...
    "Hell is empty and all the devils are here."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by butthurt View Post
    I see, that's certainly reassuring. I hated this game at first with all the item breaking and stat draining, but I'm glad I kept at it it's quite good and those things can be work around.

    Now I just need to know if there's a cheesy strategy you pro players use when you want an item in particular.
    Now, there are a few small cheats available, not gamebreaking but I've discovered two and decided not to use them (both involve save scumming).

    But usually for me I'd say it's more of using the rng to it's favour, as an example, current merchant went out of smc because of tension room so no blanket ie a lot of early game issues I normally don't get.
    Traps drenching and rusting stuff, rivers are a pain etc.

    So think more of it as preparation of the character and how much you want to prepare before next task.
    And the very best players know what preparation they also can skip and don't over prepare.

    Minor spoily stuff (hrm is there a spoiler tag avail I'll shove some blank lines in for now?):

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    A common strat is to do animated forest (thrundarrs second quest) before pyramid since almost any crap character can do it with the wand you get.
    But if you on the rare occation can stomp it before going to dwarf town why not.
    Are you able to do darkforge w/o ring of ice and do you know what you need for that to work, if not, do you know how/where to get one,if not, do you want to grind somewhere for one?

  10. #10
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    As seen from everyone's posts. There are plenty of reliable ways to deal with the problems of said character or of lack of finding certain items. Beyond potions of raw chaos and exchange, searching or "scumming" a particular item is insanely difficult and tedious. My recommendation is don't attempt it. If you are a character with a short lifespan, focus on preventative measures if you don't already have the potions to circumvent it. Because it's reliable. Finding the potion isn't. Nobody has reliable methods of finding items they need except potions of exchange/raw chaos. You'd probably get a character back to the spot you were at faster than scumming an item. Just play solid and you'll be fine. The one ghost that cornered you and hit you while you were running coward was most certainly avoidable or killable through some method. If you were already to the banshee you should for sure have the teleporting wand. I get it before I even hit dwarf town relatively often. The only thing I'll ever grind for is a blink dog in the low levels of the infinite dungeon. But you only ever need to encounter one blink dog. Just name the original and don't kill it and it will keep spawning more forever. Get one corpse for you one to sell to store in case you lose teleport control. Happy playing brotha!

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