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Thread: Did we pay $ to the crowdfunding campaign just so Biskup could charge us $ to play?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornithopter View Post
    The last free release was only version 1.15 (the version numbering system was completely changed) yet versions above 2.0 have been released to pre-releases and based on the blog, it seems have already been introduced to the steam version
    I'm not sure if you mean that the rolf quest and volcano quest have been released to steam, but if that is what you mean, they have not yet been released on steam. Yes it's true he hasn't said anything about the public release, but once again that coincides with his previous public release after the ice queen domain. He just sort of went, huh it's been a year, I guess I better release another public version. Now it's been (much) more than a year since then, but a few things have stopped progress not only for public releases but also for steam and prerelease testers. In fact, prerelease testers haven't done anything in quite a while! So I think it's been on about the same shared pace as it has always been, the slow down is just much more exaggerated for those on the outer circle of releases (those who play the public release).

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ornithopter View Post
    Seems to me like the priorities have really changed.
    The priority should be to be self sustaining since this will enable more content for all versions.

    Thomas's track record suggests you will get a "classic" version when rolf/volcano are working and tested. The version with the new quests is called "pre-release" for a good reason...
    Wins:
    Gnome Assassin / Dwarven Paladin (ULE) / Ratling Duelist (UNE) / High Elf Archer / Gnomish Wizard x ~5 / Gray Elven Wizard (UCG) - Archmage / Gnomish Weaponsmith / Grey Elf Elementalist / Dwarven Priest / Trollish Barbarian / Drakling Farmer / Mist Elf Wizard / Human Beastfighter / Ratling Archer (UNE) / Gnomish Mindcrafter

    Classes Left
    Many!

  3. #13
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    Yes, the plan is to do public free releases when everything is stable enough. They will be a bit later than the Steam release to motivate people to buy the Steam version - I'm honest about that. The reason is simple: Without an income stream we won't be able to develop ADOM forever at any reasonable speed.

    But all non-deluxe features (e.g. content) will become freely available.

    Currently we had this unfortunate and very long break (due to my broken hand) and we are just now catching up. As soon as both the ASCII and graphical version are stable enough, there will be a public free release, too (actually it is hurting us not to do public free releases as they are great for visibility and we receive even more awesome feedback with ideas for future versions).

    As of today we are putting the finishing touches to the next graphical release. The probable order of releases is:
    - another ASCII bugfix release to prerelease testers (probably tonight or tomorrow)
    - a graphical prerelease (probably within a week - at least we hope so)
    - a Steam beta release (probably a couple of days after the graphical prerelease depending on the number of bugs and their severity)
    - a Steam release
    - a public release (probably within a day or three of the public release)

    Releases face two challenges right now:
    1. Doing graphical releases is a lot more work than ASCII releases. Because the graphics team has to catch up with all the ASCII additions and that's a lot more work.
    2. Doing a public release takes us about 3/4 of a day to a full day, doing a Steam release takes us about 15 minutes.

    So yes, in the future there will be more Steam releases than public releases but in the end all the content also will be publicly available.

    ADOM lives from being a freely available game and we have no intention of changing that.
    Thomas Biskup
    ADOM & Ultimate ADOM Maintainer
    https://www.adom.de - https://www.ultimate-adom.com

  4. #14
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    we may as well complain that we're being used as an unpaid QA service too!

    But if you view it instead as a positive sum game, where we all get something of value and a little fun as well.

  5. #15
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    I would say my "payment" for the QA service part is that there are a couple dozen parts of ADOM that exist because of suggestions I made. Which probably sounds pretty trivial to most people, but I've been playing ADOM for 16 years - I started playing when I was 12 years old. I used to read ADOM fanfiction, spend hours and hours on end roleplaying different characters from different fantasy books I was reading in ADOM... there are other games I've loved playing and have had a big impact on me too (like the Baldur's Gate games, or Chrono Trigger, or Star Control II), but I don't think there's a single game that has meant as much to me as ADOM has. So when I play my favorite game and get to see something really cool and think "hey! That's something I contributed" it feels great. I suppose I get the same feeling from having donated to the resurrection campaign - I got to contribute to making something I love ever better.

    I suppose that's part of why I have trouble understanding why some people are so harshly critical or suspicious of money with regards to ADOM. I mean, obviously the Creator isn't trying to get rich off of selling ADOM. As far schemes to make money in the field of Computer Science goes, I'm pretty sure "develop a Roguelike game" comes in dead last - there simply isn't a large enough player base to make serious money selling a Roguelike. The money is there to fund further development, specifically to pay the other members of Team ADOM for their work.

    I strongly, strongly suspect if you were to calculate how many thousands hours TB has worked on this game, how much of his own money he put into development, hosting this site, etc. over the years, and how much of the money from the crowdfunding campaign and Steam sales goes to pay the other members of Team ADOM, that at best he's broken even and hasn't made any money off of his game. Yet I keep seeing discussion after discussion in various places (most notoriously, a horrid thread at Something Awful a few years ago) about how Thomas Biskup has "sold out" and is just trying to get rich at the expense of ADOM players, which to me is completely hilarious. Is it really that hard to give him the benefit of the doubt after 20 years? And for that matter, if all of a sudden ADOM became the next Undertale or something (to cite another indie game that made it really big last year), would it be so bad if he finally got paid for decades of work? Especially since he has (so far) kept his promise of always releasing a free version of the game regardless?

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbreath View Post
    I would say my "payment" for the QA service part is that there are a couple dozen parts of ADOM that exist because of suggestions I made. Which probably sounds pretty trivial to most people, but I've been playing ADOM for 16 years
    Whats that have to do with anything? I play adom on and off since 2000. I bought the steam version to support the game and the creator. What kind of excuse is that. Hell, i noticed some very good and active players bought it and never actually used it. What kind of excuse is that. (second time for emphasis)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbreath View Post
    I mean, obviously the Creator isn't trying to get rich off of selling ADOM.
    Why the hell is this wrong? Why is it so bad to make money from something he created? You really can not demand from him to develop the game further and get nothing out of it. I really cant understand why you expect him to give his intellectual property for free. Sure, the fact that he still gives out a free version honours him greatly but instead of being thankful some peeps start the grieving. Of course he will give priority to the steam version, it only makes sense. The opposite would offend those who pay the game so it can be developed even more. So you the old players can keep playing it. For free.

    From my point of view paying 15-20 euro for adom is nothing considering the fun i had from playing the game throughout these years. You don't want to pay such a petty amount of money? That's totally fine. Please don't break our balls. I understand you played the game for a long time and that you really are good at it or whatever but just stop being ungrateful.

    It's obvious that TB loves adom more than any of us, making some money out of it should be making you happy not angry.

    I know you won't understand what i am saying but please try.

    ps: i am sorry if offend someone it is not my intention but this whole thread is ridiculous
    Last edited by ahpla; 09-24-2017 at 10:15 AM.

  7. #17
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    Jesus Christ, read my post again. You completely misread it. I'm talking about the claim that we are providing unpaid QA labor by saying I feel like I have been paid in full by being allowed to contribute to the game. I don't even understand what your objection to that is. Do you want TB to pay you for bug reports or something?
    Last edited by Dogbreath; 09-24-2017 at 09:28 PM.

  8. #18
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    ahpla it is very apparent that you missed the entire point of Dogbreath's post. You're both clearly on the same side and think that TB is doing the right thing, you just misread entirely what Dogbreath was saying. The only person in this thread who's being overly critical of TB is the original poster.

  9. #19

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    yes its true and i am really sorry, i was really heated from the original poster and totally misread Dogbreath's post

    i was actually responding to the original poster

    i should have read it more carefully, i am sincerely sorry

  10. #20
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    I seem to be getting more moderate in my older years :-) Or maybe I just can't take those puny, sad flamy trolls seriously anymore. Thanks for defending me in any case - I just love the ADOM community ;-)

    And now I'm back to fixing bugs so that we soon can release the next version.
    Thomas Biskup
    ADOM & Ultimate ADOM Maintainer
    https://www.adom.de - https://www.ultimate-adom.com

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