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Thread: Class change ideas, if wrong place to post sorry, but after years of playing

  1. #1
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    Post Class change ideas, if wrong place to post sorry, but after years of playing

    So got some ideas for changes, Yes alot of people do I know. I just want to share and express them.

    ****Classes I feel are fine AND DO NOT NEED changes:
    Fighter (yea I know alot would not like me saying they are good, not the best but good.)
    Paladin (Best class for wins even Ultra if you know how i feel)
    Assassin (hard to explain why but they dont need much of a boost really)
    Wizard (cause scienc....I mean magic)

    Bard (RNG is why you picked him, and right now he is in a good spot, tho companions are just bad for any class....yes any, but your not playing a bard for a companion right?)
    Healer (need i say it?, if they needed a boost, and they may I dont know what)
    Merchant (dont know what to say here, they arent my type to play but i dont know what to improve? just play a priest then?)
    Farmer (Like the idea of him as a story thing, he isnt strong but i would put him stronger then merchants or even healers in some cases, and companions are just bad)

    *****[Strong in there styles and setup]
    Chaos Knights (good gear, funny mechanics, and well chaos not so bad now a days to play even if i dont like them, they can be fun)
    Duelist (its setup has been nicely done, and its balance changes i last saw really helped so its a great idea)
    Monk (Just a bad early game mostly, *I have one idea* since they are so mid to late game oriented to help them then but its just a cool idea not needed)
    Barbarian (well it is just that Barbarian, and it works so its good)
    Beastfighter (really just a different verison of Monk, but for more hard core players in some aspects, its good)
    Necromancer (just Hate minion management, so stopped playing them as its more pain then its worth, why i dont play bards much but i at least still play bards)

    Archer (Just needs ways to switch ammo quicker or with better ease, as ammo swapping gets annoying or lets mobs walk up to you, Strong mid to late game)

    Weak classes i recommend changes to: ----note companions or summoning them is weak as most die in one attack or cant keep up (speed)-----
    ***************************************
    RANGER (as dual wielding primary needs more opportunities to shine, new talent ideas help with that)
    For being a person who is OUTdoors like, he sure doesnt get much benefit OUT of it. Did the Pun work?
    (ideas to fix outdoor stuff)

    Thief (minor change to make up for one less powerful class feature)

    Priest *ONE change listed below* (one of my favorites actually, not great class for late game for sure)

    Mindcrafter (I know many would disagree but its simple really, to fix them so read below)

    Druid (For a friend of the Wild or wilderness, he sure lacks any REAL benefit especially for veteran gamers)
    (rather play a priest then druid even if i feel priest lacks any real end game powers, and priest is better at early game too.)

    Elementalisht (I understand what the goal is of the class design, it just needs a supporting ELEMENT to fix it) Puns too cringy yet?

    Weaponsmith (yes i said it, they are actually weak overall due to it doesnt feel special to be one, anyone can smith if they prep right and learn it)
    (So i have a tempting idea to make them FEEL unique in what they do)
    [however i am going to post them on a seperate post, its a SMALL but complex change, that would need looking into]
    ************************************************** *************

    ================================================== =====================================
    First before we talk about Ranger, lets look at duel wielding talent (or just class powers if not wanted as a talent):
    (goal of duel wielding changes, to promote usage of it more overall, but not to disable the shields effectiveness, since shields give PV usually. That means only DV increases that require investment really should be needed.)

    Two weapon defense: +2 DV when wielding two one handed weapons
    Requires two weapon skill (at 50 perhaps?) and at least Dex 14 or higher?

    Finesse Defense: +2 DV while wielding a weapon of 30 stones or less, or weight total less then 60 Stones for dual wielding or two handed.
    Requires Dex 18 and maybe Perception 14? since its more about seeing and moving quickly with your senses.
    (mainly targetting daggers, swords, staves, two-handers [again they are swords])

    60 stones max is key to prevent some really odd combos of weapons.
    Tho one handed eternium spears, and warhammers do met this, i can only say let it pass or state it cant work for polearms, maces, flails, and hammers.
    This talent is aimed at light weapon wielding combos, and could technically be used with a one hand and shield Late game mostly from better metals I suppose. Early game it better to invest in careful and defensive fighter I feel.

    Thiefs and Assassins gain a bit of benefit to this too (in case of needle and sting if they got those with these talents who cares, its lv 45 plus they worked for it)
    ================================================== =======================================

    As an old Game Master of DND once said to me, "Rewarding players is harder but proves more fruitful for what you want out of the game."

    I replied "Wait so, Do not punish the player then really ever?"

    His response, "If my warnings are not enough to prevent a bad (stupid) choice, PUNISH! Harshly punish."

    ADOM years ago first playing.
    Are you sure you want to dive into the water without knowing how to swim Y/n?
    Yes.....your drowning, you are drowning, you die......
    I had my warning lol, then the game taught me a few things the hard way....alot of things really.


    *****Now for Rangers*****

    Out door effects feel week and also very lacking compared to other classes.
    As the Dual Wield focus class adding some more benefit or focus to that style helps.

    LV 6 (weak power but keep) ALSO add in they also get +2 DV while wielding a one handed weapon, and +2 damage to weapons while not using a shield.

    LV 12 (cool not slowed in wilderness) but i dont want to be out there due to game time limit...so...then lets say they get a 20% reduced cost for movement WHILE in wilderness only.
    done this is fixed and now nice, not too op and can only work out doors still, and let it stack with the LV 40 power, cause why not its only wilderness not indoors for this 20%.

    LV25 Orignal class power very good late game i feel, but when you get it, its just .......barely ok. So Add increased site range while in wilderness by 5 always and then this little boost makes this power actually ok for traveling and such.

    Everything else is fine.

    ****Thiefs*****
    Just feels like one lv power just isnt worth noting if you dont plan on using it really. even then its annoying to have.
    skill ups or gains in it make that lv feel more meaning full, and adds more fun to playing the class.

    LV18 only two changes, ability to toggle his normal lv 18 power, and give him two random skills at this level to make it feel more like he has a knack to know things

    easy fix done and class is suitable at this point.


    ***********Priest****************
    ALL TURNING ablities are weak or ineffective (looking at lv 40 and lv 50 specifically)
    Have it so that if not INSTANTLY destoryed they are turned as damage with % hp damage of all undead within 1 space per 5 levels of PC (so 8 spaces at lv 40, 10 at lv 50)
    % hp damage is scaled to PC LV one for one so 50% at lv 50

    Seems strong? not really as most undead of late game Heal FAST (liches anyone? is a good example)
    Again this is also only good against undead so not a game breaker.
    If worried about chaotic alignment situation and Grave robbing, at lv 40 plus they shouldnt have much a problem anyways with or without this on undead.

    the higher level turn powers are generally never seen at the areas that would need them (and higher grade liches [master and such] SUMMON NON-undead alot)

    ==Note==
    In the end these class powers Unchanged are just really not going to see the LIGHT of day much it BURNS me to say. Pun?


    ******Mindcrafter************************
    YES mindcraft powers are STRONG, just the class suffers if it cant use them to the point it was better to play a fighter. This Simple fix right here changes my MIND...

    LV 25 :keep the +5 willpower, add in half damage from undead feedback

    LV 50 :75% damage reduced from undead feedback. DONE easy fix

    They are so limited as is on things i feel this fair, and I almost always FROM FULL HP even if its above normal due to high toughness, die to undead feedback if i accidentally hit them.
    I dont play them cause i keep forgetting about some mobs immunity or undead keep sneaking into my aoe in mobs or such its a pain.
    I find them not worthwhile to play due to this since the feedback is so dam strong a punishment and its not resolved til lv 50? end game when I needed it so long ago?

    They dont learn spells well ( i know why that is but it makes it harder)
    They dont have built in advantages outside mindcraft like at all really just a plain character then at that. *Confusion resistance aside (as items can be if gotten effective enough)
    Rather play a fighter thats elf for casting potential, a paladin, or even a monk. Heck any grey or high elf basicly says i can give my class, spell usage.


    *******Druid***********************************
    When I think Druid, I think natures friend and companion of the WILDS
    in adom thats SEEMS to hold true, but for a friend of the elements of the wilderness he sure is lacking in wilderness effects or really any TRUE BENEFIT from being outside.

    Lv12 power to regen PP quick is nice but as vet players know (we want to spend as little time in the wilds as possible) so this power is very sadly more a trap.
    while taking it away would not help, adding to it would reducing movement or TIME spent in the wilderness by 20% would more then make up for this. It would also make sense
    for a friend of nature to be able to be more efficient in his survival in it. THIS would also have a impact on the game itself for the class.

    LV 18 Immunity to wheather.......well that makes sense, however, proper planning and i get the same result.......yep weak power without a doubt. How bout we ADD to it as keeping it makes very little difference anyways. LETS enchance his time/movement bonus to travel in the WILD! say to 50% this time (up from 20% not stacking)

    LV 25.....companions are not strong in adom usually (special cases different or necro its different) so this power is well what it is, not going to touch it just wanted to point out that i will never use a power like this except to possibly train my mana skill the animals can die for all i care, and guess what wish granted they die easily by this lv of danger you go into.
    [just wish charisma didnt get so hurt by companion deaths]

    LV 32 hp regen in wilderness up......again we dont want to spend time in the wilds much (as all important things in adom really dont take place there)
    BUT we cannot keep increasing the movement in wilds or reduce time spent anymore as its already high enough (and it could out shine other classes)

    SO I have a even better idea, Lets have it so that you Heal some corruption points you have (will NOT GET RIDE OF corruption effects just the pts gain to get the next one)
    Important to not it is as you travel you are Refreshed by natures order and kept balanced. but it doesnt remove corruption effects just the point that build up to get them.

    This is so that you slow down the rate you are corrupted, as more a slight side benefit to travel late game but not game breaking.

    LV 50 would like it increased to 20% but thats just so it feels worthwhile, really its ok as is, just not really seeming to be lv 50 strong as far as people are aware of its strength.

    ********ELEMENTALIST*********************

    Simple really, a caster of elements, that doesnt NEED To learn them from books is the idea for this caster. SO let us SUPPORT that ELEMENT of the class. (puns dont stop)

    So add in a class invoke power at lv 18 and lv 25 that does this simple thing.
    it teaches them as if they HAD learned from a book, using their LEVEL as a bonus to learning for ELEMENT spells only
    Burning hands
    Frost bolt
    Fire bolt
    ETC.... you know

    but make it so it takes alot of time compared to book reading (like 4-5 times as long) and they can only do it once a week at most and I am guessing with the standard caps on knowledge gained and such

    and that was a simple fix to elementalist.

    ************************************************** **********************

    Sadly I dont know how to program so hope these ideas are not hard to put in the works.

    Again Weaponsmiths are going to be on their own post.
    Last edited by Enlonwhite; 11-13-2017 at 07:19 PM.

  2. #2
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    Question Weaponsmith next

    Change ideas listed after class review of why we are thinking of changing class setup.

    So weaponsmiths, they seem, how to say it nicely?

    A glorious trick/trap of skills and boost to make one appear unique in features and strengths. A few things even REDUNDANT (metallurgy skill one example)
    [note smithing itself does not need a nerf for other classes, best to reward not to punish those who invest time in it.]

    First and foremost, anyone can learn smithing, yes weapon-smiths are better at it. Just faster at it really in a few ways, gathering ingots (melt armors), and using the skill.
    Oh did i mention unless you practically PUT the dwarf town black smith on a long LEAVE OF ABSENCE. (either remove from lv or dead, can be killed safely if you know how)
    YOUR GOING TO BE PAYING FOR IT EACH TIME (2500 gold).
    (Lets just say I am not sure his death will count against the Rolf quest so I dont smith til end game usually after I do rolf quests)
    (end game being lv36-50)

    Unless you are Lucky to find a forge in a safe LOW level dungeon, which can still have you get interrupted and you need to find an ANVIL as well, hammers not so hard to get.

    OR you could use the ones in some HIGH corruption zones, and get turned into a pile of chaos possibly.

    [If i could wish for a forge, i be tempted to do so in some places, ogre caves a good first.] can i wish for those?

    So i am going to assume lucky or Dwarf town, is where you will be two scrolls of peace i find make dwarf town and ogre cave safe from background corruption, i believe if its tied to DL of the levels. if Dwarf town is spawned on D10 of CoC, (make sure scrolls are not cursed)

    Anyways even if all is fine and you have a place you only have two REAL advantages over other classes who smith (and have a place too do so).
    --You succeed more at smithing--- (extra ingots means more tries anyways, and a char can gather extra for failures anyways)
    ---you can melt metal items to ingots--- so saves mining time, only true real benefit of weaponsmithing
    Also,
    ---you smith 4 times faster---- time saved is nice but if it is food related to why this benefit was given then eating more til bloated is basicly this benefit,
    I usually have no food problems by mid to late game i can afford to eat more as a non-weaponsmith.

    Thats it..... thats what makes you a Unique smith

    Sure you get other class powers lets list all of them
    LV 6 you can smelt metal items to ingots (cool great probly not going to use this til like lv 25 or so but makes me gather and stock pile til then)
    [useful power really but not going to take real notice til later in the game. when you can get to dwarftown is the best possible early game spot i can think of but even that you probably wont "(have free access)" use the forge much.]

    LV 12 Smith 4 times faster, ok nice to get this early if you do plan or can smith early. however still unlikely to give you any true benefit til you can smith. which may not be til later
    lvs anyways.

    LV 18 +4 Strength bonus, Unless this also increase potential by 4, and prevents your score from being drained below 4, nothing you cant gain by time, practice, money, and such
    so its ok its just well, not as exciting since you can practice strength up, i am more worried if you lose it from stat drains.
    ( if it made it also to be possible to train str. up to an averager of 29 naturally and such would work at making this a very worthwhile class power)
    (25 for all stats seems to be the average max without, Potion intervention or such by magical means, and corspes after 25 dont Guarantee gains past 25 usually but still give negatives)

    Lv 25 Auto identify item material, if item is metalic (first off this doesnt actually identify the item like you want)
    Second it is useless as either, you can smith it (its in you list of options to smith) or you cant
    (If its not iron, mithril, adamantium, or eternium you will know after trying ALL of them its gold then and you cant smith gold items even if your money is gold...)
    ** Why cant you make gold ingots from money? serious its there its all there, the gold you need makes no sense why you cant!**

    ##True-silver is new to me and i haven't tested or EVEN FOUND the metal to use as a smith or means to if its possible so as metal aint counting it.##
    *IF you could melt down true-silver items for ingots great, just one thing, only the armor is worth it Eternium weapons better in damage.
    So over all you DONT even need this power (or if you do have the power you DONT even need Metallurgy skill then, really whats the point in that skill in this game? Mine faster?)

    LV 32 PERmanent immunity to fire...well this SEEMS nice, til you realize it DOESNT Protect Your Gear,.........I mean overall its a nice touch really but, when-
    -fire resistance is easy to get and 3 counts or more of it basicly makes you immune, why should you need this?
    So where does that leave this power........sadly the flames of this beauty are snuffed out.......ok puns aside it basicly isnt really needed only a nice side effect of not having to worry about having fire immunity. kind of lack luster then really. Equipment choices get easier I guess if you do have it.

    LV 40 +8 Toughness bonus, Wow big and late game so your already going to have trained your Toughness, so this could really help however as with any stat gain
    Unless this also increase potential by equal, and prevents your score from being drained below 8 or so.
    IF this bonus cant be lost by drain, but doesnt make it harder to train toughness if you do get some drained. (effective potential and max training up I am asking, like herb training)
    so its ok its just well, not as exciting since you can lose it from stat drains and if things work with how training, potentials and things function then that can only train/raise them based off
    of what you currently have then you can easily (since you will be in melee alot) lose this to high lv mobs (looking at you Master and higher Liches, all higher tiers of them).

    Basic idea is it is nice to get but could easily be lost anyways from bad RNG an may not be able to be gotten back so easily. overall its just not exciting but makes sense.

    LV 50 auto identify damage of unidentified melee weapons
    oh the problems with this;
    First: You still dont know if its Blessed, Uncursed, or Cursed
    Second: It is late game your max LV, you should already have things working for you namely weapons (so knowing this info isnt really helpful FOR the most part)
    Third: You should already have a system, stores, or means to identify via scrolls or such, Literacy is possible to get IN game via potion artifact, or dark sage corspe.
    LAST: Why do you get this late game? This is a Ultimate you achieved your goal of max level! So for your efforts, now enjoy the spoils of?......something not useful at this point.

    Needs a better max level bonus.
    How bout making it so he auto identifies metal items (even bless, Uncursed, and Cursed status), that sounds like a useful end game power that just barely makes me feel ok with it.

    OK so I basily think LV6 power ok, just not useful til mid game, LV 12, makes sense again tho not until your established safely is it useful, LV 32 can be useful but over all just a nice addition to your PC kit. Lv 18 and Lv 40 Stat boost ok, but need to know more mechanics of the game stat wise to see if it is truely worth in the Long haul of POOR RNG.
    All other powers really only useful never like never...........even when they are, you should have other ways that do not need them.

    ==============Now for Ideas to make things better===========================================

    First and formost Keep powers of class LV's: 6 , 12, 18, 32, and 40
    LV 25 and LV 50 class powers need to go or change.

    NOW LETS START OFF CRAZY, question for you.

    HOW do all those crazy items in the world of ADOM get created in the first place?.... Just plain old magic? That would be simple to say I guess but what if you are playing a class that
    COULD be the one to create those said items?

    (TO NON-ARTIFACT ITEMS)
    I purpose, that starting at lv 3 the black smith can add certain prefixes to weapons and armor that dont have one but be it random chance based on LV of pc times 2 (12% at lv 6)
    but some would say thats too RNG (chaotic) as there are many bad ones you dont want. I agree what smith would want to make bad weapons or armor intentionally?
    [Max out chance to 60% at lv 30 or if wanted 80% at lv 40.]

    So lets limit the list of what can be added LV6 , weapons-- Masterwork, Hefty, Light, and Nasty (these become non random at lv25 and can be choosen)
    LV 12 Weapons-- Green, Red, Yellow, White, and for a LV 25 set that gets added for weapons-- brutal, Flaming, Weeping, Frozen, and Murderous

    Now ARMOR list--- LV 6 Padded, Shining, Light, and New addition to prefix armor Masterwork (adds 1 DV and PV1 to base armor values),
    (THE level 6 ones become non random at lv25 and can be choosen).
    LV 12 Green, Red, Yellow, White and for LV 25 Empowered, Beautiful, Vigilant, and a few new ideas probly for lv 32 and higher

    Shielding-- Attacks that would penetrate your PV dont ignore THIS armors PV value. (Max 10-15?)
    Avenging-- Attacks against you that HARM you cause you too deal Extra damage on YOUR next TWO attacks equal to your PV of this armor. (chance to hit buffed by DV?)
    Guardian-- Attacks that Harm you cannot deal more then 25% your hp in damage to you, can only happen once every 2000 energy worth of time (every other turn)
    (essentially Guardian blocks one big blow every other turn, but only activates if you do take a blow that large other wise it will have no effect.)

    How ever i think it would be best if he could Create special ingots of the metal type of the item he is working on to Transpose effects that will be passed onto the item worked on.
    and mainly use this to have starting at lv 32 random suffixes get added as well to the ingot but he wont know what the suffix is til it is added only that the ingot possesses a stronger aura then expected. (5% good suffix chance, 2% bad suffix, and 93% chance no suffix added)

    Also if ingots like this are allowed, they could be generated as REALLY rare drops A PC could find and use on their own items even if not a weapon smith. Tho they may not succeed on the smithing let alone they should have a double chance or triple of a negative effect also being added. Again the ingot when identified should have a warning that it contains this KNOWN effect (prefix) but also has a hidden potential of power surging in it. That hidden power is hinting at a suffix will be added but they dont know what.
    Maybe even have GLOD be able to forge the ingot onto an item for them, FOR a SMALL FEE of course......20,000 times grade of metal (iron base cost, mithril x2, adamantium x3, Eternium x4)

    At this point I feel the lv 50 power could use a change to act Similar to Detect item status for metal items only, and you can keep the lv 25 power i guess as is just Metallurgy NEEDS more obvious uses, I feel it should be related to the success of making or identification of the NEW ingots i purpose, even required I feel.

    Also i feel that GEMS could play a role in Creating ingots with increased chance of success, and/or adding SUFFIXES to items. Not sure how on that to function in the math but just a thought. Tho Gems should not be required just useful.

    If my ideas are useful, post back or such, looking for Constructive feedback, even if its negative. Lets debate, talk, figure things out
    Last edited by Enlonwhite; 11-17-2017 at 01:45 AM.

  3. #3
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    I like the priest idea, at their later levels, it's fair enough that they can, at the cost of piety, instantly destroy all undead within sight except maybe Ghost Kings, Master Lich, Lich Kings, Emperor Lich and possibly Skeleton Kings. Crowned Champions with a Holy Symbol can destroy everything short of Emperor and Lich Kings. Currently their 40 and 50 powers are weak.

    I am a big fan of mindcrafters as it is the only class that has tactical options that is exclusive to the class. I believe the undead backlash reduction is unnecessary. With eye of mind being able to spot undead, there is no reason to backlash yourself. If some undead is mixed amongst other creatures, it's a price that mindcrafters need to pay, which means possibly retreating to a better corridor before invoking mindcraft. Just don't go poking confusion blasts into unknown tension rooms before level 18. If you really need to test an unknown room, stand back and let the blast only hit 1-2 monsters behind doors.

    Rangers can be the masters of dual wield, I'm okay, just like duelist is the master of single handed weapons.

    Elementalists feel like inferior Wizards. Since they are ELEMENTalists, I'm happy for them to be the most proficient with elemental spells.
    Immune to bouncing lightning bolts and their item destruction, Chance for Burning Hands to pierce fire immunity, Chance for Ice Ball to paralyse, Chance for Lightning Ball to Blind etc, something unique.

  4. #4
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    you know that is something I actually hate about leveling spells up that BOUNCE off walls. A lot of times i like the range at 9 or 10 only (sometimes less, rarely more) but then i forget it leveled up in range last few cast ago go to bounce it and bam! hit by my own spell.

    A way we can control the range would be nice, like a way to setup what max range we want it to be then zap all we want til we change the range ourselves again.

    As for your idea of unique effects on spells for Elementalist casts sounds cool and definitly unique for them. However there book learning is very bad, at least last i checked, and thats where it needs a fix first. Some way to learn there spells but only those element ones it uses for its class.

    As for mindcrafter, i just am dont like all the remember this and dont do that of them that, I know they are suppose to be a new style and challenge I just dont severity of the feedback
    (damage), maybe instead if its bad do a light stun where you cant mindcraft for a turn or two, or become confused for 1d3 rounds if you hit an undead something that still bad to happen but not instant death please.

    The talents i made up there could even be only for those classes related to them, however thought they would be nice in general as an option to open up people to new things. Could just be a waste i guess to let them be available to all classes.

    I was trying to suggest changes, to keep classes in the target area, I feel they are aimed at. Also to give them more competitive edge that is equal to other classes for the game.
    Over all I feel like only a few classes are worth really playing to the fullest while others feel like they lack behind those more solid classes IN the adom style of play that is.

    Pen and paper wise with some Clarification on things and how they benefit, i am sure its balances a Little better. Sadly this isnt pen and paper so my adjustments are meant to be for the video game itself. (we can call it a video game right?) Even as pen and paper alot of it feels off for direct value feel of the classes, its like playing chicken with cars, only some classes get DISEAL TRUCKS and others get Pedal bikes meant for school teenagers, then GO! ram into each other. The result is some classes just get splattered in strength felt. Priest High Level powers are a good example, by the time you get them you DONT need them, and Emperor Lichs and such SUMMON NON-Undead mostly (random monsters, like 2-3 Karmic Wyrms.....) What the priest going to do? Use priest powers to TURN the liches? NOPE. Can they turn the summons? Not likely unless they summon undead. At least the priest has a pretty good early game setup as they can avoid some RNG problems Like dam cats! i swear when i play priest i get Two or three on every other level.

    I talk to much.
    Last edited by Enlonwhite; 11-14-2017 at 09:54 PM.

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