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Thread: Fixing Class Powers

  1. #1
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    Default Fixing Class Powers

    A lot of class powers in ADOM don't really make a lot of sense. I suspect many of them were created well before a lot of the game was finalized, and, as a result, some of the effects that might have seemed good when TB first created them (pretty much anything involving the wilderness, for example) turned out to not be very useful. This is probably not something that's ever going to get fixed since it's a fair amount of work, but I thought I'd brainstorm some ideas for how this could go to see what people think, and maybe in the hopes that somebody TB would revisit this issue.

    The main goal here is to have all class powers at least in some way useful. They don't necessarily have to be fantastic, but they have to be thematically appropriate, and something the player might look forward to getting. I tried to avoid making anything too overpowered, and tried to have some variations in terms of when things arrive--eg. some classes get their best abilities quite early, others develop power as the game progresses. The level 50 powers, which are really hard to reach, I tried to make a bit more unique for most of the classes, though a few of them are probably still a bit lame.

    Here's what I settled on:

    Classes where the class powers are basically fine, IMHO:
    Archer, Assassin, Barbarian, Bard, Chaos Knight, Duelist

    Levels not listed will remain as they are.

    Beastfighter


    Druid


    Elementalist


    Farmer


    Fighter


    Healer


    Merchant



    Mindcrafter


    Monk


    Necro


    Paladin


    Priest


    Ranger


    Thief


    Weaponsmith


    Wizard


    So there you have it. How I'd change the class powers if I had the ability to do so. Thoughts? Comments? Flames? This is all just hypothetical, so feel free to tear my ideas apart or post your own.
    Last edited by JellySlayer; 11-24-2016 at 08:48 PM.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  2. #2
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    Default

    I agree that a fair amount of class powers are very lack luster and some even useless.
    On the other hand it's also a good challenge to play a rotten ss/race/class combo from time to time.
    Some of the suggested powers seems very strong.

    I would probably look at the all existing abilities and pinpoint those that are useless (for example turn undead) to look for appropriate changes.

  3. #3
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    Barbarian:


    Druid:


    Fighter:


    Merchant:


    Monk:


    Thief:


    Weaponsmith:

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grond View Post
    Druid:
    Level 25 is not too bad for this. You'll get it around Casino time, so you can always slip out of CoC via shortcut to cure corruption, and PCs often make the trip out for other reasons anyway (especially ultra hopefuls). I agree that wilderness abilities aren't great in principle, but I think giving druids a wilderness flavor is still worthwhile. All level 50 class powers are going to be fairly useless on some level or other, but no background corruption is somewhat usable, I think. If you hit level 50 before reaching Chaos Plane, you can fight a (mostly) corruption-free ultra.

    Summons are generally bad, I agree. I think changing the cost to PP instead of permanent Ma loss would at least make people think about using it... either as meat shields or just hiding them in a room so you can boost regeneration for the rest of the level.

    Fighter:
    Bugs can be fixed.

    The general problem with all around attacks is that getting yourself surrounded is usually a bad idea. I guess if you made the energy cost low enough that it would be worth using against two monsters, yeah, maybe people would use it, but then it's still annoying having to do Ctrl-X, mash button, all the time.
    Thief:
    Current level 50 power is terrible though. If you're level 50, you ought to have a source of invisibility already. Or you don't need it.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    All level 50 class powers are going to be fairly useless on some level or other, but no background corruption is somewhat usable, I think. If you hit level 50 before reaching Chaos Plane, you can fight a (mostly) corruption-free ultra.
    I guess if it applies to Chaos Plane, it would be good - although one could argue that this corruption is one of Andor's powers, rather than true background corruption.
    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlater View Post
    Bugs can be fixed.

    The general problem with all around attacks is that getting yourself surrounded is usually a bad idea. I guess if you made the energy cost low enough that it would be worth using against two monsters, yeah, maybe people would use it, but then it's still annoying having to do Ctrl-X, mash button, all the time.
    Doesn't mean that they will be (in any timely fashion). Anyway, automatic actions open up a big can of worms (karmics - except with ring of karmic absorption, acidic skin - except when uncorrodable weapon, paralysis skin - except with resistance, creatures that mess with your alignment, and the fact that it will probably end up crashing the game for the next 3 patches ). A good all-around attack could at least see some use on the chaos plane.

    Quote Originally Posted by JellySlayer View Post
    Current level 50 power is terrible though. If you're level 50, you ought to have a source of invisibility already. Or you don't need it.
    Sometimes you won't have a source of invisibility, sometimes you want to avoid the hunger cost of invisibility items. It's actually better than the proposal - which again brings up the problems of automatic actions (dropping alignment, message spam, burden, angering monsters, game bursting into flames).

  6. #6
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    Sometimes you won't have a source of invisibility, sometimes you want to avoid the hunger cost of invisibility items. It's actually better than the proposal - which again brings up the problems of automatic actions (dropping alignment, message spam, burden, angering monsters, game bursting into flames).
    I get your point about automatic powers being potentially problematic.

    I don't agree at all that the current level 50 power is remotely any good however. At level 20, it would be decent, I suppose. At level 50, it's only slightly better than Weaponsmith's power.
    Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.

  7. #7
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    Some ideas for abilities for Weaponsmiths:
    1) reforge non-artifact item with a higher metal. Lvl 12 mithril, lvl 25 adamantium, lvl 40 eternium.
    2) add extra metal layer as protection to an item. Item becomes much heavier but less prone to destruction/damage.

  8. #8
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    I think it is a good idea overall, i guess we just need to consider fundamentals like

    1) all classes aren't equal
    2) all classes can't have duelist type powers

    nonetheless some, like druid just need to be changed because they are complete junk and do not even get used. Definitely supportive.
    Wins:
    Gnome Assassin / Dwarven Paladin (ULE) / Ratling Duelist (UNE) / High Elf Archer / Gnomish Wizard x ~5 / Gray Elven Wizard (UCG) - Archmage / Gnomish Weaponsmith / Grey Elf Elementalist / Dwarven Priest / Trollish Barbarian / Drakling Farmer / Mist Elf Wizard / Human Beastfighter / Ratling Archer (UNE) / Gnomish Mindcrafter

    Classes Left
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  9. #9
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    Yeah I think a change along these lines could be a big improvement to the game. Class abilities are fun, and worthless class abilities are just sad.


    I really love the level 50 priest suggestion.

    For smiths, being able to improve artifacts feels a little awkward. How about an ability to create new weapons and armor out of ingots? With a random chance to get prefixes..

    At level 50 they should of course learn how to mend a broken pickaxe.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

  10. #10
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    I love most of the original suggestions, though in some cases I simply don't know if the proposal is ok or not, since I don't play some of the classes.
    For example I never ever play beastfighters so I couldn't be bothered by any changes to their class powers.

    One thing I noticed however, and I think a lot of people will agree with me on this, is that class powers' usefulness often falls into a short time-window, between when it's obtained and when it's no longer needed.
    Sometimes, more often than not, these two moments do not overlap. I play thieves often and I have yet to remember a single instance of lvl 50 class power being of any use.
    I *always* have another source of invisibility at that point and the energy consumption is irrelevant with stoma herbs.
    What I would do with thieves is give them this power at lvl 18 BUT change it to toggle, at the same time making it use PP, less with each level gained, culminating with no PP used up at level 50.
    It would still only work when adjacent to a wall but at least would be useful earlier, when it matters.

    For elementalists, I would advocate something I have already proposed years ago - instead of burrowing through rock, make them ignore it, at the cost of PP of course.
    That way, there would be a relatively big incentive to get to level 50 asap, at least it would be for me.

    What I would very much like to see done with farmers is marginalize the negative corpse effects with levels gained.
    It would be nice to eat all the stuff that you normally throw away because it's corrupting/abusing stats/paralyzing/sickening/whatever.
    Not total removal of these features but a major decrease in frequency of occurrence.

    Weaponsmiths are another story. I really like the idea of improving artifacts at level 50 or at the very least, being able to remove negative DV/PV modifiers and/or to-hit and to-damage bonuses.
    On the other hand, I get really excited at the thought of being able to create weapons (and possibly armor) of choice, assuming my PC has seen the "design".
    The additional chance to get an affix would be really nice.

    For paladins, I would like to see something like weapon consecration, for extra demon/undead damage, perhaps at level 18 or 25.
    Since they are effectively warpriests, they should be able to use their piety AND their PP to add a temporary Holy prefix to any weapon wielded, which would act in similar fashion to the Holy Avenger artifact.
    Double the damage or something. If the piety and PP costs scaled with levels, this would see continued use but would also force players to maintain a healthy relationship with their deity, to reap the benefits of their piety.
    I think this works well with them being holy warriors.
    Last edited by Blasphemous; 11-26-2016 at 01:13 AM.
    "Hell is empty and all the devils are here."

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