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Thread: How important is precrowning?

  1. #1
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    Default How important is precrowning?

    I think that far too many YAVP mention that they "got precrowned with X".
    How important is precrowning for winning?

    Is it almost a must (i.e. more than 80% of games that managed to win had been rewarded with a very good precrowning item or two)?

    If it is, would it make sense to make it much easier to precrown (as standing near an altar and sacrificing monsters is not exactly interesting)?
    Or should it be nerfed, instead?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinsI View Post
    I think that far too many YAVP mention that they "got precrowned with X".
    How important is precrowning for winning?

    Is it almost a must (i.e. more than 80% of games that managed to win had been rewarded with a very good precrowning item or two)?

    If it is, would it make sense to make it much easier to precrown (as standing near an altar and sacrificing monsters is not exactly interesting)?
    Or should it be nerfed, instead?
    Define 'important' better, lol.

    It is not important as being strictly needed to win, but that is strictly needed (beyound Orbs naturally).

    Typically precrown is early game material (lv8-10 as later you get si, tome of donors, gladius from arena and so on, guaranteed artifacts start to pile on). At lv8 if you get good artifact (+regen, humanoid slayer maybe some others) it is a huge power spike.

    You always get lots of piety, which means luck (Lucky+Fate Smile) and bunch of insta heal prayers, so overall odds of winning improve (or if you think odds are 95% anyway the game eases a good bit).

    The only real costs are time doing livesacks is time (which is your definition of non-interesting, I guess) and not doing crowning instead. For regular win crowning actually would increase odds more (but if you are off good race and non-L, you likely can sell precrown artifact, sac gold and get crowned -- precrown to crown is not that expensive).

    From what I've read on this topic, I've liked the best just limiting live sacks. That would go in the same vein as limiting herbs. Let's say for livesack to be accepted creatures DL ought to be higher or equal of total livesacks made so far divided by x. Personally, I'd like x being fairly low like maybe 2.

    Once you try suck animated tree gods give message "I am not building a bloody garden" (or something close to that). They could give one about zoo for livesacks.

    Now, this would leave some options for precrowns as hobbits saccing cooked corpses (imho, these give way too much piety - uncursed cooked corpse for hobbit is like 1400 gold equivalent), abusing mining+gemology or good prices as dwarf merchant.But these are either niche or fixable.
    Last edited by Soirana; 01-07-2018 at 07:28 AM.
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  3. #3
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    @SinsI

    So far I've had five wins in ADOM, none of them with a precrown and I'm not a particularly good player or anything, so no, I wouldn't say pre-crowning is important to winning.

  4. #4
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    Not important at all.
    A very small minority of my wins had precrowns, more often than not I've gotten a crappy artifact from precrowning.

    While the ingame time isn't a big thing a precrown tends to drag the game to a tedious snooze fest.
    PC 4 or PC6 altar is the only alternative that I'd use it for, but also saccing the entire vault on PC 6 can rob you from drops that would be more useful than a crappy artifact.

    (I feel I've got more random artifacts than before with the latest version.
    My sample size isnt big enough but if more drops it reduces the need for precrown fodder even more.)

    With all the new artifacts the spread is bigger, I guess you could count and see if the chance for a useful one is bigger.

    I have maybe once or twice done a gold precrown playing dwarf, that one is worth it for me since I tend to hoard a lot of gold and even more so as dwarf (but sometimes not doable because of too many artifact drops and not enough levels).

  5. #5
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    Religion is simply a powerful tool in Adom. As such precrowning isn't a must but it is nice in the right conditions. And I only do it under very certain conditions: the alter is generated on a cavernous level and I'm not neutral (when that happens I just go for a normal crown). It is a crap-shoot but getting a early artifact can be seriously break the game wide open. But it's rare that you can do it given the level requirements so it works as a rare reward.

    What counts as 'interesting' in Adom? If you had to give up the most valuable items you ever owned in exchange (avoids inventory trickery)? Or some sort of quest for your God - "You have chosen a righteous path - you may have a gift if you...? Or some sort of stat cost?

    I don't think it's broken so I don't think it's going to be a 'fixed'. It's strong but not too strong especially given the random nature of it. not vital just nice.
    Last edited by Tyrnyx; 01-07-2018 at 05:53 PM.
    Completed: All Races. Current Goal: All Classes
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrnyx View Post

    What counts as 'interesting' in Adom? If you had to give up the most valuable items you ever owned in exchange (avoids inventory trickery)? Or some sort of quest for your God - "You have chosen a righteous path - you may have a gift if you...? Or some sort of stat cost?
    Not in ADOM, but in general I like Crawl's god system. You want to please your god, you follow certain behaviour code. (Most of Crawl's are not hard to follow by the way).
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  7. #7
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    Precrowning is not important. It's one way to gain power, but not the only one. I don't generally try, can win from time to time anyway.

  8. #8
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    If you have an easy way to precrown, go for it. If not, don't grind for it for ages. Spending 1 hour on livesaccing and being rewarded with the black tome really sucks.

    A ant hole or beehive near an altar is one of the easiest ways to crown, exploit those if you find them. Of course an altar next to a lesser vault or in a cavernous level can also do the trick.

    Also keep in mind that some classes are really just better off crowning right away.
    You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by grobblewobble View Post
    If you have an easy way to precrown, go for it. If not, don't grind for it for ages. Spending 1 hour on livesaccing and being rewarded with the black tome really sucks.

    A ant hole or beehive near an altar is one of the easiest ways to crown, exploit those if you find them. Of course an altar next to a lesser vault or in a cavernous level can also do the trick.

    Also keep in mind that some classes are really just better off crowning right away.
    After finishing my first game in the latest version I wonder if it's better with precrown now, there are some really overpowered artifacts out there.

  10. #10
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    I don't usually bother with live sacs. Single vault is not enough for a precrown and it is more fun to sort through all the loot. Cavernous level + an altar - maybe.

    Hurhling precrowns are easy but corpses are heavy and cooking takes a lot of turns. Fish collection with Survival+Swimming on river squares is very nice though. It only takes 65-70 cooked fishies to crown or precrown, fish meat is light and only takes 11 turns to cook with blessed set. So, Bilbo went fishing for 80 days, got Preserver, and saved the world in two more weeks...

    Quote Originally Posted by blunk View Post
    After finishing my first game in the latest version I wonder if it's better with precrown now, there are some really overpowered artifacts out there.
    Well, original artifact pool had Executor, BoW, Preserver and few other things already, but new artifacts seem to improve goodies-to-crap ratio.

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