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Thread: Shameful question

  1. #21
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    Everquest, now that was a game with a grind. Ever camp a mob spawn for 8 hours only to get one drop of the crafting mat you need? If you have not played oldschool MMOs then you have no clue what a "grindfest" is; there is nothing in ADOM that is a serious grind and there hasn't been since I started playing. I'll agree some people turn some aspects into a grind because they don't know how to play, so they scum to compensate, but not with the pickpocketing quest. Even if you don't put skill points into it when leveling, all you have to do is score a few hits then wait for the skill to go up on its own, then finish the quest. You don't actually need to finish the quest until level 16, so that means you can just adventure on and throw a pick every now and then. It is very far from a grindy quest.
    Last edited by Jeremiah; 04-20-2018 at 02:41 PM.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah View Post
    Everquest, now that was a game with a grind. Ever camp a mob spawn for 8 hours only to get one drop of the crafting mat you need? If you have not played oldschool MMOs then you have no clue what a "grindfest" is; there is nothing in ADOM that is a serious grind and there hasn't been since I started playing. I'll agree some people turn some aspects into a grind because they don't know how to play, so they scum to compensate, but not with the pickpocketing quest. Even if you don't put skill points into it when leveling, all you have to do is score a few hits then wait for the skill to go up on its own, then finish the quest. You don't actually need to finish the quest until level 16, so that means you can just adventure on and throw a pick every now and then. It is very far from a grindy quest.
    It is also the matter of perspective. I could not find but IIRC on brinkster forums I claimed that killing 4k gremlins in upper graveyards (in 20 old evrsions there they dropped stuff and had pockets) was not a grind... and nowadays I consider thieves guild quest useless waste of time... go figure.
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soirana View Post
    It is also the matter of perspective. I could not find but IIRC on brinkster forums I claimed that killing 4k gremlins in upper graveyards (in 20 old evrsions there they dropped stuff and had pockets) was not a grind... and nowadays I consider thieves guild quest useless waste of time... go figure.
    I already said that I agree that scumming could be a grind, but that is a self inflicted grind which is completely unnecessary to play the game. I never got into gremlin exploitation, personally, and now-a-days I just do the pick pocketing quest absent mindlessly, just picking as I go. I don't even count the pockets anymore. I just don't see the grind; it is such a simple quest that takes hardly any effort and can be done as you level and move the game forward. The notion that the quest is a grind is just not something I am buying.
    Last edited by Jeremiah; 04-20-2018 at 09:33 PM.
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  4. #24
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    I personally like it a lot how if you rob a shop for a certain value you pass the quest, at least they got that. Now that's a true thief's feat

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah View Post
    I just don't see the grind; it is such a simple quest that takes hardly any effort and can be done as you level and move the game forward.
    It's just your single perspective...

    Does picking pockets advance something in the game other than stupid grind quest? Cause, some players would not bother with picking them otherwise.

    The acceptable way for me is to burn one invisibility potion and get five finger discount in black market. Definitely not grindy
    So far rolled 15 casters with RoDS and shamelessly killed them within 200 turns. For eternium glory!
    (after 15 I stopped counting...)

  6. #26
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    Pickpocketing can be very grindy but at least it is a choice of the player whether or not to engage in it for extra items. Almost every game I've played where I used to pick pocket I would do so until around lvl 20 when it just became too tedious to a-1, a-1, a-1 every mob I came across for extra potions/scrolls. I did have one win with a thief character where I tested the lvl 32 class power (much better items pickpocketed) by actively pickpocketing everything I could and I was blown away but the items I got - you can check the YAVP for a tally... I think that would be the only case where the benefit outweighs the grind.

    I don't see a need personally for changing how pickpocketing works both in mechanics and in the quest, I too usually skip the quest itself in lieu of robbing the first random store I come across and that satisfies the entry requirements IIRC.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soirana View Post
    It's just your single perspective...

    Does picking pockets advance something in the game other than stupid grind quest? Cause, some players would not bother with picking them otherwise.

    The acceptable way for me is to burn one invisibility potion and get five finger discount in black market. Definitely not grindy
    It's just your single perspective...
    I doubt I am the only person that plays this game that finds the quest trivial. Do you often frame your arguments in terms of perspectives? I typically don't go for those type of arguments. I mean feel free to bush that off as my perspective, but I have found that people who too often argue the "perspective" angle are people who don't really want to have a real discussion. I mean sure sometimes it makes sense, but if it is your default go to, well then you are really just trying to avoid an argument, and if that is your goal you should just leave it.

    Does picking pockets advance something in the game other than stupid grind quest?
    I use it at the start of the game, but I'd agree it is not that great of a skill. That does not make the quest a grind.
    Last edited by Jeremiah; 04-21-2018 at 03:51 PM.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah View Post
    LOL, it is no where close to a "grindfest". Do you all not play MMORPGs? Nothing in ADOM is a grindfest. Try actually putting some skill ups into pickpockets, that will make it go much faster.
    I don't know about "all", but I definitely don't play MMORPGs exactly for that reason, modern MMORPGs (as in, "all MMORPGs except for Ultima Online") are massive grindfests (and if anyone knows one that isn't, please tell me... sometimes I try a MMORPG for a while, only to run away scared of all the grinding).

    That this is becoming normal doesn't make it good. Hell, I have tried more than one game where one of the rewards is not having to play. For example, in Star Wars Galaxy Heroes, there is an item called a "sim ticket" that you can use to automatically win a fight that you have already shown that you can win by a large margin. That is, if you are lucky enough to have sim tickets, it lets you skip the fight instead of wasting time doing it again and again on automatic to slowly farm some lame gear that you need. I mean, some modern games are so boring that the privilege of not playing is a reward. And people see this as normal.

    Good thing most single-player games haven't fallen into this crap, and there are plenty of old-school games available...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al-Khwarizmi View Post
    I don't know about "all", but I definitely don't play MMORPGs exactly for that reason, modern MMORPGs (as in, "all MMORPGs except for Ultima Online") are massive grindfests (and if anyone knows one that isn't, please tell me... sometimes I try a MMORPG for a while, only to run away scared of all the grinding).

    That this is becoming normal doesn't make it good. Hell, I have tried more than one game where one of the rewards is not having to play. For example, in Star Wars Galaxy Heroes, there is an item called a "sim ticket" that you can use to automatically win a fight that you have already shown that you can win by a large margin. That is, if you are lucky enough to have sim tickets, it lets you skip the fight instead of wasting time doing it again and again on automatic to slowly farm some lame gear that you need. I mean, some modern games are so boring that the privilege of not playing is a reward. And people see this as normal.

    Good thing most single-player games haven't fallen into this crap, and there are plenty of old-school games available...
    There is no point for single player games to have MMORPG style grinds. The grinds that are common to MMORPGs are there for a reason and in a single-player game or a co-op game those reasons don't exist. Mainly because you don't have a community of thousands of players who need something to do over the next year while waiting for new content. The grind does turn people away, but it also keeps people there, so they have to balance it, which is not an easy thing to do. Normal games make most their money from game sales, but MMORPGs make most their money by keeping players playing the game.

    At any rate, my point was that ADOM does not have any real grinds in it.
    Last edited by Jeremiah; 04-29-2018 at 02:39 PM.
    AKA: Jbc
    1st win no spoiler & no cheating version 1.1.1
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremiah View Post
    There is no point for single player games to have MMORPG style grinds. The grinds that are common to MMORPGs are there for a reason and in a single-player game or a co-op game those reasons don't exist. Mainly because you don't have a community of thousands of players who need something to do over the next year while waiting for new content. The grind does turn people away, but it also keeps people there, so they have to balance it, which is not an easy thing to do. Normal games make most their money from game sales, but MMORPGs make most their money by keeping players playing the game.

    At any rate, my point was that ADOM does not have any real grinds in it.
    Started a new thread as hoping stealth/pick pocketing/thief quest discussion can thrive outside of unrelated thread:
    http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread...lth-in-general

    Just wanted to chime on the grind question. I don't agree grind is mmorpg only. Grinding as in doing repeated tasks over and over to gain some minimal gains was always in ADOM and is still there. Stairhopping? Herb farms? Clearing big room for that quest monster (or ID)? Those are all examples of grinding in ADOM. Can you play/win without grinding? Sure, but often times people grind because it is the least dangerous option, you get minimal rewards, for minimal risks, just time investment instead, like running ID 1-3 over and over to get those spellbooks. And yes, I agree mmorpgs took grind to the next level and most actions in them are a grind, but doesn't change the fact grind exists in almost all games in some way

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