Ultra Questions

[gut]

> i thought you guys were experienced enough not to
> trust things like i feel that

Hence the wording 'pretty sure', not absolutely sure : )
Coincidence does happen, and in this case it seems like it
is coincidence, that I have never recieved SoCR's while N=.
I now wonder if this has been true for all versions, as I
have thought this for ~6 years.

> ask to do at least minimal investigation before
> stamping false statements with your own authority

Well, 'pretty sure' is not much of a stamp of authority.

In a way, I prefer not testing things imperically, (in this
game at least). You see, it wouldn't be much trouble for me
to re-load save files, and I have done plenty of that in
the past, believe me! Besides, I'm proficient enough with
memory editors, to not need re-loading anyway, I think that
parameter fiddling is superior. I've also done hordes of
that in the past with ADOM, but no longer.

It's just that testing things that way (mem edit/svg re-load,
leaves me feeling a bit...blah (for lack of a better word).
I now prefer 'seat of the pants' info gathering. With enough
players contributing, the (sometimes MORE) correct answer can
still be achieved.

I will still sometimes test things using re-loading/mem editing,
if I can't get the answer other ways. I consider it a last
resort though, because it bores me.

[Grey]

Numbers are not statistically reliable but I see no point to do deeper researching.

For future I would greatly ask to do at least minimal investigation before stamping false statements with your own authority. Thank you.
P.S. I was sober at research moment, so don't even bother with jokes about booze.

Re-reading my post I think I came across a bit arrogant unintentionally - when I said "players of experience" I simply meant people who've done it a few times, and certainly didn't mean any sort of authority. This is a discussion board after all, and I'm ever eager to hear of experiences different to my own. And I did point out that perhaps it was just random chance - evidently it was.

This testing is quite interesting - and surprising, of course, given how different my experiences have been. But ah, I have myself said before about how dangerous the mind's pattern recognition system can be, and how you tend to reinforce your own biases with what you observe, forgetting the instances where you were wrong... Anyway, thank you for the testing (something I've been meaning to do myself for some time, but since I save so infrequently I never remember to back up saves for testing like this) - you should maybe post a YAGBU on RGRA.

Well, i was gonna try a bard for this, but he is so utterly weak at the beginning that it is problematic. I don't want a rat for a first kill, but i don't have the abilities to go kill a bandit or something. Any advice on this front? (I got a nice 6 talent gnome that I have rolled that I was saving for when I can get past the road bumps =)

Well if trying with bards I'd personally recommend this little guide. As for first kill, it's not too hard. Get your pet to kill anything common you run into first, and try and find a rabid dog or large bat. When you run into them in future just tame them so you don't have to kill them, thus keeping Filk on a low level.

[Soirana]

> i thought you guys were experienced enough not to
Besides, I'm proficient enough with
memory editors, to not need re-loading anyway, I think that
parameter fiddling is superior.

Adombot actually doesn't need neither experience, nor parameter fiddling. If you prefer this way...

[gut]

AdomBot is limited though, it will not (to my knowledge) allow
you to edit things like whether quests are finished or not.
For this, and a load of other stuff, you have to sniff the offsets
yourself.

[FantomFang]

Gray: Yea, I've already looked at the guide. Thanks for the tip about the first kill though, for some reason it never occurred to me that I had music. Can you say "duh?"

[Silfir]

Well, how far are you, FantomFang? My human monk, level 17, has fed the ratling and is currently on search for a scroll of danger and an AoLS for Khelly. (He was randomly generated - not Khelly, the monk - and I had to use the old barbarian to later find out about my first kill. Orc, 42 killed, already have Courage. Should be doable.)

And you guys need to calm down. Okay, you already did. I personally always felt that the "You must not be N=" is a myth. Not calling myself a "player of experience" here, but the fact two players of experience come to the same conclusion doesn't really say much when others who certainly have talked to the mystic often enough don't. Fortunately we have Soirana to remind us of the importance of statistical research!

[FantomFang]

Not that far really. Barely started. Still been busy, but by Sunday/Monday I'll be REALLY buckling down and rocketing through (hopefully)

[Silfir]

Never mind. The skeletal king killed my monk. Back to the drawing board for me.

[Timpak]

I just have a few quick questions before I start attempting to achieve an Ultra Ending:

1) Can all of the items you need for Gaab'baay's quest line be wished for? If not, which ones can't?
2) About when should I start focusing on the achieving the requirements for the chaos artifacts, as in, what is a good level to be able to beat Keriax, and when does your level become problematic in changing your alignment? Is their an optimal level range I should attempt to finish it by (realizing that once i give him all the items, i can change alignment freely without worry)?

3) What type of speed should i shoot for by the end of the game? Is 200/400 really a possibility like the Guidebook recommends?
4) Anything I should know about the Rift that the guidebook skips?
5) Anything else I should know about the Ultra-specific areas and monsters (Scintillating Cave/Emperor Moloch/Filk)?

That should be it! Thanks in advance for any advice.

1. Yes

2. Gaab Rays quest as early as possible, then you can do them at whatever level you want to. I did keriax and filk at clvl 50 for example. But I did Gaab Rays quests early 20s.

3. Speed is a big help, but not needed. My wizard slayed andy with totrr and ~140 speed iirc. If you have good amount of socr a quickling tree raid before the final descent can get your speed really high, especially with the barbed trident of hunting from the bugcave and food preservation at 100, remember to bring stomaceptias though. 400 base speed sounds waaay high though, with potions of boosts speed 400 is a piece of cake.

4. Not really, sometimes you have to wait more than 2000 turns to get the wierd tome.

5. Scintillating cave should be done as quickly as possible, preferably with teleportation and magic mapping, monster detection on the last level. Emperor moloch have insane pv, blessed missiles of demon slaying is needed unless you have spells. Filk is a piece of cake with spells, a wand of fireball should kill him swiftly also.

[Silfir]

I think base speed caps out at some point with quicklings. I've gotten to over 200, but not much more.