> We know how to survive until we get the powerful items
> we need to rely on.
I probably should have presented the list of guaranteed
items in the original post, it was just getting long.
Here is a list, though I probably leave some out.
Frost bolt spellbook and wand, fireball wands, fireproof
blanket, two waterproof blankets, (a whole set of) mithril
armor pieces, Big Punch (heavy, but a one handed weapon
of mass destruction), the Ankh, the Ancient Mummy Wrapping,
the Elemental Guantlets, Ring of the High Kings, wand of
teleportation, infinite potions of booze (beggar juice),
many potions of extra healing, weapons and armor from
Darkforge, Ring of the Master Cat (but only if you are
My point being, that with such items being guaranteed,
the need to find more becomes a matter of optimization,
rather than need. I think a better chance to survive the
early game, is more rewarding than an improved chance at
future (unneeded) optimizations.
> Treasure Hunter is all about preventing hassle.
Yep. The way I have it figured, that's what it provides;
less hassle. If you have no intention of using any
scummy methods, and feel no worries about surviving the
early-game, then 'treasure hunter' is a valid convenience
> are all alternatives to get the loot you need, but they
> are all boring
Agreed on all points, but my point was that you don't
need any of those methods either. If one needs extra loot
to win the game (likely you don't), then get the extra
loot in the best way possible. If one doesn't need extra
loot to win (almost everyone, as tactics are much more
important than items) then 'treasure hunter' sucks.
> Besides, if I'm good enough to play with restrictions,
> I don't need no stinking early game survival talents.
Well, I sure do! Stupid stone block traps... *grumble*
Many players roll several PC's to get some feature they
like, such as nice stats, complimentary star sign, or a
particularly valuable starting item. It's annoying to
get smashed right away, and have to re-start the process.
Also, it's tough to put a lot of work into a PC, just to
see them die from not being able to outrun a revenant or
something. Extra speed or HP's can save frustration for
the best of us.
> A good suit of armor obtained early is much more
> helpful than the PV talents
Are you implying that good suits of armor can only be
found, if one chooses the 'treasure hunter' talent?
Perhaps you imply that good suits of armor are to be
guaranteed, if one chooses the 'treasure hunter' talent?
Nope on both counts. One who hunts treasure may indeed
find themselves lacking in armor, and one who doesn't
may indeed be rolling in it. In my 'no hunt treasure'
games, I find there to be no shortage of decent armor
pieces. I don't think it is a good bargain, to give up
immediate (life-saving) benefits, in exchange for possible
> As seen from my research it gives around an extra 15%
> chance that a monster will drop an item when killed
> (code-diving supposedly says 12.5%). By that I mean
> if the normal chance is 10% the resultant chance will
> be 25%. In the early game at least this seems to double
> item drops.
I intentionally did not post figures, because they can
Following the link I find:
> For each I took a sample set of 400 kills. Each character
> ended up at level 9.
> Treasure Hunter: 98 items, 58 corpses, 20 piles of gold
> Non-TH: 57 items, 59 corpses, 6 piles of gold
This test does not prove to me how good 'treasure hunter'
is, it proves how horrible it is. WHAT? 98 items vs. 57!
Surly I can see how good that is, right? Wrong. Look at
the effort that went into getting those 41 extra items.
If given a choice, between doing THAT, or doing without,
wouldn't you do without? I certainly would.
Granted, you are going to kill 400 monsters sooner or later,
so you can get those 41 items (eventually) without the extra
effort. I wonder though, how much extra effort it would take
to generate those same 41 items via ID stair hopping? I say
10 minutes tops. That would mean 10 minutes in the ID, is the
equivelant of the 'treasure hunter' talent, up to the 400
kill mark. (By then, I'm usually well past Dwarftown, even
if not playing for turns.) The main use of 'treasure hunter',
is as a convenience feature, for those who dislike scumming.
> More importantly it means double the armour in the early game
No it doesn't, and shame on you : )
> double scrolls (you'll find which is identify much quicker)
No, it doesn't.
> and double water (always handy).
No, it doesn't. It only means double, if you completely ignore
all items not dropped by monsters.
> extra money early game
No shortage of that yellow stuff in ADOM.
> Through the game it means a much better chance for all of
> Gaab'Baay's ingredients early on if going for an ultra,
Much better chance? I don't know about that (as to my
knowledge, it only helps with item drops), but I will
agree about the boar skull.
> TH at least doubles the effects of gremlin bombing
I don't think it helps with pickpocketing, but I'm
not in a possition to debate pickpocketing : )
> help me get more blankets and eq for the Tower
There is a guaranteed blanket from Thrundarr, which
decreases the need for more. Just remember to doom
yourself before going in ; )