Here come another wall of text! : )
The value of most any item decreases drastically with time. For
example, starting with a potion of cure poison is very valuable,
finding one at exp. level 3 is still very nice, at level 6 it's
still nice, at level 9 it's fair, and at level 12 it's nothing
but junk. A metal cap to start is nice (but highly vulnerable),
at exp. level 12 it's also just redundant, perhaps you find a
+2 one, but you won't notice the slightest difference in game
play from it.
Maybe that is a more clear way of expressing my thoughts on this
miserable talent. What difference would you notice in game-play,
if you played without it? Maybe this is what makes me think so
differently from most players, I have played the *vast* majority
of my ADOM games, before TH ever existed. I think this gives me
a good perspective to evaluate the usefulness of TH. I can
honestly say I notice no difference in game-play, at *any* point
in the game.
With or without TH, the begining quests are just as difficult
as they ever were, and are accomplished in the same time frame.
TH does not provide *any* noticable benefit at that point in
the game, so why have it? I reach Dwarftown within the same
time frame, with no noticible effect on game-play. I reach the
Griffyard at the same time in the game, with no effect on game
play. I reach the pyramid, the TotHK's, the Water temple, the
ToEF, the Cat Lord and so on, *all* at the same points in the
game as I am able to WITHOUT THE TH TALENT. It makes no
noticable difference at any given point in the game.
Let us compare that with my thoughts on some other talents.
I only switched from ADOM 1.0.0 in the last year (I found it
more stable, and really only switched because that was the
version that everyone else seemed to be playing). Upon
switching, I *did* notice the GAME-CHANGING differences that
some talents made. Of particular note is 'long stride'. I was
really blown away by that one. After playing this masochistic
game for nearly a decade, without being able to outrun early
game monsters, a talent like that makes a big impression and
a big difference in game-play.
The speed talents also made a *huge* difference in game play.
When chosing these, after nearly a decade of doing without
them, one can not help but notice big benefits. The PV talents
also provide a real difference in game play. Chosing these
will actually allow me to do things earlier than I previously
could, they actually *noticably* increase my rate of survival.
Some missile feats like (but not limited to) 'fling the bling'
or 'kill Terinyo', I think, are only practical with the missile
talents. Chosing these talents actually provides a difference
one can feel, TH simply doesn't do that.
The PP's talents also provide game changing benefits for
spellcasters. With low PP's and concentration skill level,
getting the WP blanket from the SMC can be really dangerous.
With extra (sometimes double) starting PP's, it makes the
blanket a much more viable task for an exp. level 1 PC. Talents
like the HP's line, the DV line, and even the carrying capacity
line, all provide benefits that do impact game play.
> no surprise you didn't find anything noteworthy
> You can't quantify stuff like this with just one game
I wasn't really trying to quantify anything. Really I just wanted to
find out how many kills it takes, to get to the center of a healing-
skill-based, mad-carpenter-quest : )
> what kinds of item you deem useless...
Items that grant no difference in game play. Items that I would
happily throw away, and thus hinder myself, not even the tiniest
iota. Items whose only purpose to exist, would be as fodder for
fireball traps. Items that when dropped on the floor of a shop,
makes the shopkeeper giggle. Those kinds of items. Worthless junk.
> Want to debate the value of your measly PV talents in the endgame?
Happily. After reaching the casino, TH = 0. The PV talents are still
indestructable. That means, unlike my nice 7LB's, I can actually take
my PV points through every trap in the game, into all of the temples
in the game, face every annihilator, and eye of destruction in the
game, and they will even survive the occasional divine smiting : )
> most, if not all items are apparently useless to you
That was funny : ) Seriously, I know the value of items. At least I
can say I have a good idea of what is needed, and what is not, at
most given most given points in any game. Anything that is not needed
is bloat, as you would notice no difference were it not there. Some
bloat is fine, it's for a margin of error, but all of that is nicely
provided for without the TH talent.
> While you kill more monsters, go stairhopping, gremlin bombing
> and what have you, I get on with the game
Now you are just being silly Silfir. Remember who your typing at : )
> The effect of the talent is not replacable
I don't agree. Not in the slightest.
> for you, Treasure Hunter is redundant. Fair enough.
What I am hoping to prove, is that TH is useless for the average
player, not me. It would actually rise above the level of 'suck'
for me, as I can survive extreme situations, and hate scumming.
It is the average, 'haven't won an ADOM game yet' player that is
being mis-lead by the illusions (delusions) of TH. OTHER TALENTS
WILL SERVE YOU BETTER!!!!!!
> Thrown Axes and Hammers suck? Yes? But why? It isn't expensive
> - it costs only one talent after all!
Lottery tickets only cost 1$. 'Someones got to win, it might as
well be you'! Do not pay something real, even if it's small, in
exchange for dreams. The one talent does cost, it will delay the
point at which you obtain the really cool talents like 'immune
to pain'. As one approaches the ToEF, exp. levels do come more
> (Hardy - Tough Skin - Iron Skin, right?).
> Which one is more expensive? Why, that which is of less use to
> us. However, there is no us.
Barring restricted games, there is an us. I am refering to the game,
as it is, not with scum restrictions, as played by the majority of
ADOM players. TH does not change game-play, and if pursued, will
delay the point at which nice talents are available. I think the
popularity of the TH talent, is due to the guidebook saying that it
is great. People read it, and think it's true, but I don't think so.
> You want the PV talents more, I want Treasure Hunter more.
> Scratch that criterion, it's useless.
To say that I want PV more is not always accurate. I sometimes play
games with extreme restrictions, that may cause me to benefit more
from TH, than PV. I'm not an amature, so I can do without PV, if
I have a good reason : ) This is not a real way of judging talents
though, as 'strong legs' could be useful in some 'extreme restriction'
games. Just because something has value under occasional, and *very*
narrow parameters, doesn't mean it doesn't suck.
> You find Treasure Hunter dull. Sadly, that does not make it Dull
Yes. Sadly the 'because I say so' argument is rather pathetic : )
I mainly included that as humor, but it is my viewpoint. I think it's
possible that a lot of players share it though, based on some of the
'wish' related threads I've read. The AoLS is the best, but it's not
a *fun* wish. It trades a cool and immediate benefit, for a dream of
a future payout that may never happen.
> you don't even need any talents.
Careful... using that word : )
I typed this in a text editor, and just pasted it into the form
field. I actually exceeded the character limit with this post! Oh,
I can't stop laughing! : )
I use polemarms when laying adom.