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Thread: Speed & number of opponents vs. defense/attack

  1. #1
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    Mar 2008
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    Default Speed & number of opponents vs. defense/attack

    I've always thought that speed should greatly affect the defensive and offensive abilities of player character and monsters. For example the quicklings are fast enough to carefully examine the player's armor, and stab the player directly between the helmet and chest plate, but in ADOM they just bash the heavily armored player several times, usually without any effect. On the other hand, the player with 160 speed is not nimble enough to dodge the sloooooow bash of moloch when it is its turn to attack.

    The other thing is, when you are surrounded by horde of monsters you should be hit eventually, no matter how fast you are - you just can't block everyone around with one shield and one sword. IIRC in ADOM there was only the negative modifier to +tohit when PC was fighting with more than 3 monsters (without the courage skill).

    I think that speed and number of monsters should be much more significant. Maybe there should be some bonuses to DV/tohit when fighting with very slow monsters and this bonus should be decreased greatly when fighting against more than 1-2 opponent (that number might be affected by concentration skill).

    I hope you get the general idea. Any comments are welcome.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by chalup View Post
    I've always thought that speed should greatly affect the defensive and offensive abilities of player character and monsters. For example the quicklings are fast enough to carefully examine the player's armor, and stab the player directly between the helmet and chest plate, but in ADOM they just bash the heavily armored player several times, usually without any effect. On the other hand, the player with 160 speed is not nimble enough to dodge the sloooooow bash of moloch when it is its turn to attack.

    The other thing is, when you are surrounded by horde of monsters you should be hit eventually, no matter how fast you are - you just can't block everyone around with one shield and one sword. IIRC in ADOM there was only the negative modifier to +tohit when PC was fighting with more than 3 monsters (without the courage skill).

    I think that speed and number of monsters should be much more significant. Maybe there should be some bonuses to DV/tohit when fighting with very slow monsters and this bonus should be decreased greatly when fighting against more than 1-2 opponent (that number might be affected by concentration skill).

    I hope you get the general idea. Any comments are welcome.
    I think this is one area where realism has to be balanced by game play. I agree that a PC with Dex 40+, Speed 160+, and alertness 100 should never be hit by a Moloch one on one. But if that was the game, speed would be too unbalanced.

    Personally, I think increasing speed should be much more difficult than it was in Adom.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Can't you do dodge hits manually with high speed? You can hit a slow monster and then back away so that the monster doesn't have time to strike the character. However if you stand in front of the monster tapping "5" it just means you are not utilizing your speed in conjunction with the DV. When you are surrounded you can't back away and thus you're not getting the advantage of high speed which is in keeping with your suggestion. That so-called "kiting" technique could be incorporated into the monster AI as well which in turn would be kinda cool.

    However I do agree that being surrounded should decrease the defensive bonuses of shields and weapons.

    I've actually lately thought about the fact that you can block any stroke no matter how powerful the monster in question is. I think there should a certain limit on how much damage a shield can absorb. I also think that shields shouldn't grant any PV since if the you fail to block a blow your shield wouldn't help decrease the damage you take.

  4. #4
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nezur View Post
    Can't you do dodge hits manually with high speed? You can hit a slow monster and then back away so that the monster doesn't have time to strike the character. However if you stand in front of the monster tapping "5" it just means you are not utilizing your speed in conjunction with the DV. When you are surrounded you can't back away and thus you're not getting the advantage of high speed which is in keeping with your suggestion. That so-called "kiting" technique could be incorporated into the monster AI as well which in turn would be kinda cool.

    However I do agree that being surrounded should decrease the defensive bonuses of shields and weapons.

    I've actually lately thought about the fact that you can block any stroke no matter how powerful the monster in question is. I think there should a certain limit on how much damage a shield can absorb. I also think that shields shouldn't grant any PV since if the you fail to block a blow your shield wouldn't help decrease the damage you take.

    Shield should add to the evasion , not to the damage reduction, yup you're right.


    But i think he means that the player should be able to dodge without moving that much.
    Maybe, each 5 velocity points over 100 add 1 to the evasion score, and each 5 points under, lowers your evasion score 1 point.
    I never won a Adom game...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread.php?t=227&page=2

    from page two of this thread the discussion is about more complex and nastier penalties for fighting multiple monsters at once.

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