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Thread: To release or not to release...

  1. #11
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    Mar 2008
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    I say if you are undecided, don't release the code! Cause, once you release it, it is too late to go back, while, if you decide later that is what you want to do, you can reverse the decision of keeping it to yourself.

    Ultimately though, ADOM is essentially a completed game and something to definitely be proud of! Its been one of my favorite games for over a decade and I still play it to this day. Sure there are some minor bugs left in it, but, none of them are remotely game-breaking.

    I'd hate to see ADOM's good name get tarnished by a plethora of cheap knock-offs, silly/stupid mods and whatnots.

    Concentrate on JADE and getting another great roguelike game out there! Besides (correct me if I'm wrong here), I thought you were intending on releasing the source to JADE anyways, there's little point in fracturing your development time and the development time of the community into two groups.

  2. #12
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    Mar 2008
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    Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin View Post
    <snip> ... I just want to do it to get someone else to fix bugs (he, quite egoistic, isn't it?)
    It's not egoistic at all. in fact, many people see open-sourcing their code as an easy way to ease the maintenance burden of their software. Everybody wins this way.
    Quote Originally Posted by adom-admin View Post
    ...really start a development community for the future of ADOM
    You should definitely do this, as it helps in many ways:

    * You can establish an official ADOM code repository, in which you (or other people you trust, if you don't have the time) approve any sent contributions a-la Linus, and also in order to make clear to others that any externally-spawned variant is just that and nothing more.

    * You shouldn't be concerned much about any potential variants, however bad they may be, because those who still play ADOM will know where to look.

  3. #13
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    May 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by artificer View Post
    * You shouldn't be concerned much about any potential variants, however bad they may be, because those who still play ADOM will know where to look.
    I'd like to also add that the only reason variants typically achieve any publicity is because they are supported by the community. People link to them on forums, newsgroups, the official site, etc. The community here is fully aware of your views and even if a poor variant were to arise (I really doubt that any will, to be honest), it would be very unlikely to be publicised or supported by the community here, who hold a great respect for your wishes.

  4. #14
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    From the point of view of the roguelike development community, getting to see ADOM's source would be truly incredible. Looking in detail at your code for dungeon creation, monster AI and so on would be an inspiration for many. There are a lot of roguelike developers out there interested in making their own original works, but relying on looking at the sources of other roguelikes for guidance - releasing the ADOM source would be a great contribution to all future developers.

    As an ADOM fan I do have certain reservations about the source being released, but I think these are overwhelmed by the possibilities of what the ADOM fanbase could achieve with the source available. Look already at ADOM Sage, a brilliant front-end for ADOM that does nothing but add to the game, and the adom server run by jakkoss that allows for remote play, spectating games and joint high scores. Look at the inventive challenge games players come up with, including multiplayer competitive games. Fully opening the source could allow all these bases to be expanded upon, and would add a lot of fun to ADOM players across the world.

    The Angband effect is extremely unlikely. The reason for so many variants is that the Angband source is so well-structured and easy to edit or play around with. From what you've said in the past ADOM is not anywhere near the same - even the smallest modifications lead to major bugs, and only a very determined and skilled programmer can do anything with it. Most such programmer are purely interested in making a better ADOM in its current vein, or making an entirely new game themselves. The general style and story of ADOM also doesn't lend itself well to many variations. Most likely any development of ADOM by the community will be in the form of bug fixes, and maybe added content in the same vein as current content (more talents, items, classes, races, extra dungeons and quests, but ultimately leaving the main game intact).

    The main drawback to releasing the source is the loss of mystery that still surrounds the game. Players are still finding odd new effects. For instance it's only been recently noticed that firing lightning bolts at shambling mounds increases their hit points (actually exploitable), and that critical hits on enemies give extra weapon marks. With the source code open these mysteries are dimmed somewhat. The only way to combat this really is to release snippets of source rather than the full thing, but that reduces the possibility of bug fixes and community development.

    Anyway, it's your choice, and we all respect that either way. My main point would be that releasing the source will lead to greater enjoyment of the game, which can only be a good thing. Perhaps some of the community development of ADOM would provide inspiration for JADE too.

  5. #15
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    Players are still finding odd new effects.
    or the fact that kobolds can kill you with exploding trapped doors.
    To this day I have not once scummed in ADOM.
    Probably why I dont have a win.

  6. #16
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    Jun 2008
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    Lightbulb Release only current source code

    My idea is to release the source code in current state, but do not release any further official modications, as to keep some secrets intact. So anyone could send in a modification or bugfix that could be either approved or rejected for official Adom version. The current "secrets" should be finished (Kherab's third quest, Red Rooster Inn, etc), as well as new ones may be intruduced.
    I think this way everyone should be happy.

  7. #17

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    Don't release it, I don't want to see 14 crappy versions of ADOM.

    However, don't sit on it. Find a group of willing programmers and give them the code. Pass on your overarching philosophy of the game to them. Have veto power over any radical additions/changes as you see fit. Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is my favorite roguelike, but only because ADOM still needs a bit of polishing. Let someone else polish those bugs out and keep the ADOM community happy.

    Think of it this way. If there is a new release of ADOM, even just small changes and bug fixes, every 4 months, these community will quickly grow again. That will provide a bigger playerbase for JADE.

  8. #18
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    Jan 2009
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    If you have any doubts about releasing Adom source code - then don't do it. Adom is your game, your "child", YOU should feel good with Adom sources released, not us. If you don't want to release source, but anyway you'd like to see Adom improved, Sradac suggested very good idea. Choose few trusted people with decent programming skills, and give source code to them. Personally I think this is best solution, and I would like to see it happen. Adom would be still developed, you would have control over everything, no "angband effect". I see only positive sides here, no drawbacks.

    Whatever your decision will be, I will accept and support it(and I'm sure that rest of community also will).

  9. #19
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    Jan 2009
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    Hmm... interesting news indeed!

    The one thing that I think absolutely needs to happen is some sort of bug fix release - a version 1.1.2 if you will. Even if there is no significant further game development, it'd be great to at least leave ADOM with a polished version without the numerous bugs it currently has.

    Now, I personally don't really care how this happens. If you find time to do it yourself that's great. If you organize a small group of people to start fixing stuff up, that's also fine. Same goes for releasing the source. Adding extra features would be good too, of course, but right now I'm only concerned with the creation of a bug free (at least mostly) ADOM =)

  10. #20

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    In my opinion, Biskup should start a repository for hosting the code which anyone can checkout, and all the patches should be approved by Biskup, thus the offical version is unambiguous and can always be distributed from the offical site and repository. Most of the patches should probably be bug fixes and maybe some improvements to the user interface, maybe, but the control for what is added is always in Biskup's hands.

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