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Thread: To release or not to release...

  1. #21
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    the only problem I have with TB having to approve ALL changes for all modifications is, he is basically outsourcing ADOM to people to do his work, and only his work. and they arent getting paid for it. instead of modding and new variants it would be people getting the bugs outa adom for TB for free. Thats why i'd rather have a few people full control of it than everyone have to submit to TB first to see if its approved or not.

    I dont think the source should be released just to have people work the bugs out. It should be for that yeah, but also adding content and expanding old content. Its a tough thing to decide and honestly, I really dont think there is a "right" way to do it outside of what TB feels is right for his creation, his child.
    To this day I have not once scummed in ADOM.
    Probably why I dont have a win.

  2. #22
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    Hi,

    I'm new to roguelikes but am love gaming in general.

    Anyway the first time I tried ADOM , I read everything in help, now BIG apology if Im wrong here but Im sure I read in a way older version in the help that you would from time to time get some nasty emails regading releasing the source(once again big apology if I got this wrong but I could have sworn I read something along these lines in the ADOM help years back)

    I would guess things like that would just make you think, why the hell should I even release this?(I was disgusted myself after reading it) If I was in the same position thats probably what I would be like anyway, the source is a privilege not a right.

    In reality though I think the vast majority realise this and its a shame you have to be subjected to that "crap". I also think people would use it for learning to code these types of games for the most part and you would have your already good coders , maybe modifying the code and I reckon most would give credit.

    Obviously as a coder myself I would LOVE to see the source code of such a succesful game released as it would help the community immensly and if you think about it, the game would probably get even more well known and possibly you could get a massive revival of the game! In saying all this I do fully understand the dilema, the game is something you created and made what it is, no doubt you put major hard work in and well I wont expand on this but to reiterate I do understand the dilema.

    Still would personally love to see it released and would be grateful but its your desicion I don't know if you get donations for ADOM? but either way even if the source was released I still think genuinly you will be the one getting all due credit for the game. (And rightly so)

    Good luck with whatever you decide to do and I'm looking forward to that Jade game! (Once I get further into ADOM though I will probably undertake that post card thing as well but thats kinda OT )

    All the best
    Foxfire

    One small thing I would say, just reviewing whats been said, either release it fully with appropriate license or not at all. I dont like the whole, release it to favoured members of the community idea. (That would be my sole genuine concern)
    Last edited by foxfire29; 01-08-2009 at 02:36 PM.

  3. #23
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    Just chiming in to say:

    If you have any doubt, don't.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sradac View Post
    the only problem I have with TB having to approve ALL changes for all modifications is, he is basically outsourcing ADOM to people to do his work, and only his work. and they arent getting paid for it.
    It's not like money is everything.

    I write open source software, although all of my patches are reviewed and some of them are rejected.
    Feel free to ask me about my motives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sradac View Post
    instead of modding and new variants it would be people getting the bugs outa adom for TB for free. Thats why i'd rather have a few people full control of it than everyone have to submit to TB first to see if its approved or not.
    Huh? I don't see your point.

    • Again, this misconception about "free" work.
    • It's not "a few people"'s opinion that matters, it's TB's opinion. Therefore the model of "a few people [having] full control" is nonsens.
    • In any case, getting something included means talking to TB and the community. That can be done before one starts to implement it. No work is wasted that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sradac View Post
    I dont think the source should be released just to have people work the bugs out. It should be for that yeah, but also adding content and expanding old content. Its a tough thing to decide and honestly, I really dont think there is a "right" way to do it outside of what TB feels is right for his creation, his child.
    What's the difference between a bugfix and a new feature / new content?
    Both need to be discussed, reviewed and approved - with TB having veto rights, not technically (anyone could fork) but practically (remember, the community respects his decisions).

    [Footnote: Sorry, Sradac, that I continue to bash your comments. I just disagree with you; no offense intended.]
    Of course it's unfair - that's the whole point.

    The Adom wiki: everything you don't want to know about Adom.
    http://ancardia.wikia.com/

  5. #25
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    Of course I can't speak for anyone else, but I
    think Sradac is just kind of re-phrasing what
    Biskup wrote with the line:

    >... want to do it to get someone else to fix bugs (he, quite egoistic, isn't it?),

    Personally, I don't think it's egotistical in the
    slightest, but maybe I'm biased. I want to see
    bugs fixed so badly I might not be thinking
    rationally any more : )
    "Whip me!" pleads the adom player. The rng replies... "No."

  6. #26
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    One day it would be nice to just dump a load of stuff on an altar and then give Kelly an amulet of lifesaving without having to look away from the screen, beads of sweat dripping down my wince-distorted-face, hoping against hope that the game won't crash.

    If releasing the source code would make that more likely to happen, then that would be great. I wouldn't want the uber-jackal feature taken away though, that would make me sad (makes the tough but long-winded get to level 50 in the wilderness challenge just a bit more interesting).

    Sadly I have no real coding skillz (I really don't count being well-versed in the bastardised 'language' which is VBA as real coding, even if I can make excel dance like a cute puppy rather than the rabid dog it really is), and so would be unable to sort out my two least favourite bugs even if I had the source code...

  7. #27
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    iirc the main reason why not to release the code is the possibility of ever making a commercial version. the real question then becomes: "Do you think that wil ever happen?" or maybe even "Do you want that to happen, considering that any licence wil effectivly prohibit further development as open source software?"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by modular View Post
    iirc the main reason why not to release the code is the possibility of ever making a commercial version. the real question then becomes: "Do you think that wil ever happen?"
    I dont. Most gamers only care for shiny 3D graphics. I doubt ADOM is flexible enough to be converted to a game that capable of appealing to the masses (no-graphics, turn-based, tile-based, just from the top of my head).

    Quote Originally Posted by modular View Post
    or maybe even "Do you want that to happen, considering that any licence wil effectivly prohibit further development as open source software?"
    Why that?

    Take MySQL as an example. It's free under the terms of the GPL, but commercial vendors can buy it under another license if they want to. Now, take Qt. Nokia bought it from Trolltech, which means they can do whatever they want to do with it (they own it now; and they too sell commercial licenses)- but to us it's still free (GPL).

    Got my point?
    Of course it's unfair - that's the whole point.

    The Adom wiki: everything you don't want to know about Adom.
    http://ancardia.wikia.com/

  9. #29
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    I'd say, take it easy. I don't think ADOM will pass away before JADE is released, I even doubt ADOM will lose relatively much players when nothing changes. But when you release a non-beta version of Jade, ADOM will probably become old-fashioned and releasing the source would be inavoidable imo.
    I don't see the problem of releasing the source code though, but I don't know much about game development. If some people would want to make and play boring mutations of ADOM (I don't mean that any change would be bad) - well, it's their choice. It means that they didn't really enjoy ADOM in some aspects, so it wouldn't be as bad as it looks.

  10. #30
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    Default Hmm

    While one part of me wants to add on and give back to my favorite roguelike,
    the other part wants the mystery concealed.

    Even if I don't play games that often anymore, ADOM is still one of my favorites for a long time.
    I could never understand NetHack or any other roguelike.

    I think if the source code is released, it would be one of those big moments in computer gaming history.
    At least to me, it would be.

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