AKA: Jbc
1st win no spoiler & no cheating version 1.1.1
Favorite Race Class Combo: Darkling Farmer
Even if apprising makes something less of a gamble, it is still a gamble, you can get cursed items that have a fair appraisal. I stopped using it for that reason, and I just have not used it in years. While you can say from time to time once in a blue moon it helps; however, the vast majority of the time is sill is just worthless and in the times it does help most of that time it will not be a big help. I benefit from bridge building, haggling and cooking way more than appraising.
Last edited by Jeremiah; 08-18-2018 at 03:39 PM.
AKA: Jbc
1st win no spoiler & no cheating version 1.1.1
Favorite Race Class Combo: Darkling Farmer
I disagree with bridge building and haggling being useful. I’ve never found a situation where bridge building was easier to use than any other method in the game. In fact if you are unlucky enough not to find enough carrot juice there even a guaranteed potion shop now. But regardless, all the early quests that can have rivers are easily skipped.
I’ve used haggling and if my starting dice rolls are high enough I may even add a skill up to it... but I still think it’s not very useful. Because by the time it’s high enough to use, money is plentiful. Even when used with a ME or a DE it’s still not enough to compensate for their racial handicap.
AKA: Jbc
1st win no spoiler & no cheating version 1.1.1
Favorite Race Class Combo: Darkling Farmer
We can argue that any skill can be used, even woodcraft, but that still doesn't mean it is a worthwhile skill. The whole skill tree is antiquated and could use revision.
AKA: Jbc
1st win no spoiler & no cheating version 1.1.1
Favorite Race Class Combo: Darkling Farmer
Unless the proposed improvement doesn’t make sense. I feel it would be more useful if appraisal could be used to find one or two hidden features to an object. Not like the whole greater id description, but part of its verbose description. Definitely not it’s numerical description either.
Originally Posted by GrondAlchemy is Tier 2 at best. Athletics is Tier 3. Ditto Backstabbing. I love Gardening in its current incarnation, but it's probably Tier 3 as well because it's really just a convenience feature. Gemology and Dodge are more like Tier 4; Detect Item Status is a better fit for Tier 3. Tactics and Food Preservation are both Tier 2. Find Weakness is probably Tier 1 if you're using Archery; Concentration is Tier 1 if you're a caster. I'd be tempted to move Smithing down because I find it too tedious to actually play, but I'll acknowledge its value if you actually want to put in the effort. Cooking is Tier 4, at least for non-casters.Tier 1: Alchemy, Literacy, Alertness
Tier 2: Athletics, Find Weakness, Backstabbing, Concentration, Herbalism, Healing, Smithing, Gardening
Tier 3: First Aid, Stealth, Swimming, Food Preservation, Dodge, Archery, Detect Traps, Ventriloquism, Gemology, Tactics, Necromancy
Tier 4: Appraising, Detect Item Status, Music, Disarm Traps, Climbing, Fletchery, Mining, Pick Locks
Tier 5: Listening, Haggling, Courage, Cooking, Law, Woodcraft, Bridge Building, Survival, Metallurgy, Two Weapon Combat
Appraising is great in Ironman runs or similar challenges (not as good as item status, but decent enough) where you have some difficulty in identifying your gear.
Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.
If Alchemy is Tier 2, then Literacy is the only Tier 1 skill. Perhaps an accurate assessment, as merely having Literacy makes life a lot easier, regardless of the character type. I may be biased in favor of Alchemy due to playing at higher difficulty levels, where you really want forms of attack that don't care about DV and PV.
Athletics is that high mainly to due to the speed bonus at higher ranks. If being fast doesn't matter, you probably don't need any skills. Backstabbing I have that high because blindness backstabbing is very strong versus certain otherwise difficult monsters. Perhaps other comparably good strategies are possible without it, though.
You are probably right about Gardening. But I would say that Gemology is closer in usefulness to Gardening than to Fletchery. Some gems are quite useful in bulk, and it's impractical to farm them without the skill.
Dodge is tricky due to the difficulty in training it. Still, I think a few points of DV and some other side benefits are good enough for Tier 3. It's certainly not much less useful than the minor bonuses granted by Tactics, which also suffers from training difficulties.
Detect Item Status is very much in the same boat as Appraising. Nice for early-game, and close to a pure convenience feature after that.
You are probably right about Food Preservation. Getting intrinsics earlier is quite helpful, and it has minor benefits throughout the game.
Since Tier 1 now consists of Literacy, I can't imagine putting Find Weakness there. You get better crit multipliers with ranged, but you also get less crit chance from Find Weakness. I didn't make the list for specific classes or archetypes, so I don't really care that Concentration is Tier 1 for casters.
Minor nitpick, but imo it is tier two for Chaos knights when they start out Extremely Thin and Nimble.
And tier three for hurthlings that have game changing crowning gifts (beastfighter comes to mind), if you are aiming at crowning as early as possible.
Wait, are we appraising skills?
You steal a scroll labelled HITME. The orc hits you.
I've won the game on higher difficulties too, and never really found much use for offensive alchemy except maybe on Merchants (and even then, most of my merchants I find taking wand gives much better returns). Then again, I almost never play the classes that have this skill other than Merchants, so I'll admit I may be biased there.If Alchemy is Tier 2, then Literacy is the only Tier 1 skill. Perhaps an accurate assessment, as merely having Literacy makes life a lot easier, regardless of the character type. I may be biased in favor of Alchemy due to playing at higher difficulty levels, where you really want forms of attack that don't care about DV and PV.
It's not that big of a speed bonus, and by the time you actually start to get the benefits here, most classes have other ways to buff their speed if needed.Athletics is that high mainly to due to the speed bonus at higher ranks.
Gemology is like a worse version of smithing in terms of value/turn invested. Fletchery at least requires very little grinding. But any skill that requires you to put in 10000+ turns of grinding in order to see any benefit is bad, IMHO.But I would say that Gemology is closer in usefulness to Gardening than to Fletchery.
+8 DV isn't all that much, though I'll grant that the bonuses from tactics aren't as big as I thought they were. I guess Archery/Tactics/Dodge are all probably in about the same range of utility.Dodge is tricky due to the difficulty in training it. Still, I think a few points of DV and some other side benefits are good enough for Tier 3. It's certainly not much less useful than the minor bonuses granted by Tactics, which also suffers from training difficulties.
DIS gives you much more practical feedback than Appraising does, especially for items whose values aren't so clearly defined as weapons (e.g. scrolls, wands, and potions). In scenarios where your inventory is necessarily light, both of these skills are better, but DIS is MUCH better.Detect Item Status is very much in the same boat as Appraising. Nice for early-game, and close to a pure convenience feature after that.
Hoping to win with every class, doomed. Archer, Barbarian, Bard, Beastfighter, Druid, Elementalist, Farmer, Fighter, Monk, and ULE Priest down.