Melee classes: two-handed weapons vs dual-wielding vs shield

[Blank4u47]

AOTME vs Needle+String - Each dagger is +50 and AOTME is 20-96 so it would seem Daggers are considerably stronger? Even with the duel wield penalty.

Would seem that way until you take into account the high energy cost of dual wielding, and the crit bonus on the axe.

For example; at grand mastery the daggers will cost 995 energy and do 74-83 (30 str +9dmg and GM +12dmg) subtract average pv of 25 for high leveled monsters then multiply by 2 for the 2 weapons (98-116) dmg per 995 energy.

Now the cow axe; 30 str and grand mastery it's 595 energy. Will do 30 from GM, 13 from str (value is 1.5 times bonus from str.) so 63-159 minus 25 avg pv, equals 38-134 with high crit chance and 595 energy.

[grobblewobble]

The high crit rate increases your average damage by some 40%, so the axe is normally the clear higher damage / round.

In addition, low energy cost on your attack is extra good because it allows you to hack&back safely.

[Blasphemous]

For daggers, you need to add to the equation the backstab bonus, which for thieves and assassins is tremendous and for other chars still quite considerable.
Maxed stealth, possibly with the appropriate talent and invisibility, allows you to pretty much backstab anything.
Of course, aotme gets a backstab bonus as well though as far as I know, not as big as daggers do.

[grobblewobble]

Yeah, that's why I said "normally".. when you're backstabbing it's a different story. I wonder - is the backstab bonus applied to both daggers if you're dual wielding?

I once tried backstabbing the Ancient Karmic Wyrm with an assassin dual wielding daggers.. it didn´t end pretty.

[Blank4u47]

Yeah backstab is times 3 for daggers, times 6 for thief and assassins, whereas axe is times 2 or times 4 for thief and assassin. I'd still take the axe, as crit triggers with backstab for glorious results

[Blasphemous]

Yeah, that's why I said "normally".. when you're backstabbing it's a different story. I wonder - is the backstab bonus applied to both daggers if you're dual wielding?

I once tried backstabbing the Ancient Karmic Wyrm with an assassin dual wielding daggers.. it didn´t end pretty.

It's applied to only the first attack because after that, the monster notices you (duh, you just stabbed it...).
Would be nice to have a chance at double stab if your skill is really high, it makes sense actually since both attacks are so little apart in time.

[Blank4u47]

You can actually backstab twice sometimes, nuetral monsters don't always notice you on your first attack in the current version. I know this because when I pickpocket I kick the monster if it doesn't notice me, then even if I damage it, sometimes it'll still be nuetral.

[Soirana]

Yeah backstab is times 3 for daggers, times 6 for thief and assassins, whereas axe is times 2 or times 4 for thief and assassin. I'd still take the axe, as crit triggers with backstab for glorious results

Isn't proper sin/thief bonus 4x on it's own? Wiki says it adss up and ends up being 7x with knives

[Blank4u47]

I could be wrong, I'd need to test it out myself I guess. I was pretty sure the bonus was times 2 to the current multiplier.

[Soirana]

I could be wrong, I'd need to test it out myself I guess. I was pretty sure the bonus was times 2 to the current multiplier.

Well, that (2x) is backstab bonus for everyone. Thieves and assassins (properly leveled) are better...