Elementalist rebalancing

[JellySlayer]

Even if it was like this, I'd maybe still chose the elementalist... weaker character = more honor and glory if you win ;-)
By the way, your comment on my DAR thread made me wonder one thing. If you talk about those mighty wizards, do you automatically think of gnomish, high elven or grey elven wizards with learning > 20? Because - like I said in that thread - my dark elven wizard apears to have a very clear early-game-disadvantage in comparison to... say... a dark elven elementalist.

Well, that's because dark elves suck--they're probably the third worst race overall, and don't make particularly good wizards unless you get a rather fortuitous roll. You'd have problems playing an orc or troll wizard too--though at least in those cases, you'd have decent toughness. Even a human wizard is going to be better than a dark elf, on average. Though to be fair, you managed to make it to Dwarftown on a Lithium start. That still probably puts your character in the top third of successful PCs.

Just for some context here, awhile ago I ran some figures on the race/classes of winners posted here in the forums and in the hall of fame. If memory serves, somewhere between a third and half of all winners were grey elf wizards.

[Stingray1]

Did the study include how many of each R/C was played, quitters included. Percentages in such a study would actually mean something. If I only play gray elven wizards, 100% of my wins will be gray elven wizards.

[JellySlayer]

No, it was a study of characters who won, and what R/C they played. If you pick an ADOM player completely at random, if they've won the game, odds are the winner was a grey elf wizard.

There may be people who play 100 percent of their characters as GEWs, that's true, but that will presumably be balanced out by the fact that there will be other people who will play nothing but troll mindcrafters (I do know of at least one player with something in the order of 50 mindcrafter wins, as it happens).

[_Ln_]

Well, that's because dark elves suck--they're probably the third worst race overall

"Stranger, Lol'th demands yer soul."

[JellySlayer]

"Stranger, Lol'th demands yer soul."

Second worst? [edit]No, sticking with third worst if ratlings are included.

[Stingray1]

No, it was a study of characters who won, and what R/C they played. If you pick an ADOM player completely at random, if they've won the game, odds are the winner was a grey elf wizard.

So, if all of us participating in this discussion plays one and only one of each R/C, without starsign cheating, savescumming, re-rolling or any other form of cheating then tally the wins afterwards then at least half should be GEWs, right? Will take some time.

[JellySlayer]

I'm not sure why you think that people who have won the game don't reroll their characters.

[Silfir]

Well, that's because dark elves suck--they're probably the third worst race overall, and don't make particularly good wizards unless you get a rather fortuitous roll. You'd have problems playing an orc or troll wizard too--though at least in those cases, you'd have decent toughness. Even a human wizard is going to be better than a dark elf, on average. Though to be fair, you managed to make it to Dwarftown on a Lithium start. That still probably puts your character in the top third of successful PCs.

Just for some context here, awhile ago I ran some figures on the race/classes of winners posted here in the forums and in the hall of fame. If memory serves, somewhere between a third and half of all winners were grey elf wizards.

That was kind of GordonOverkill's point, though - elementalists have strengths in the early game that put them above wizards, for a time, unless you're playing a race especially suited to wizardry. Elementalists don't rely on Learning to function the way wizards do. (Hence the line in the description about a less scientific approach.)

[_Ln_]

Second worst? [edit]No, sticking with third worst if ratlings are included.

Haha, nice try.
Alertness and Find Weakness beat starting equipment and stat disadvantage of dark elves and make them better than most IMHO.
While drakelings are objectively better than dark elves, the latter are my 1st pick any time.

[Silfir]

Dark elves don't just come with horrible toughness; they get crap for prices with Waldenbrook's, which doesn't sound like much but makes more of a hassle of the midgame at times than people give it credit for. It's a testament to how good Alertness and Find Weakness are that they're not completely terrible.