"Saving" your game

[sztosz]

As far as I remember, even when you save-scum win, ADOM get notice of it, it's written somwhere on the statistic screen. I stoped save-scuming becaoue it spoils the game.

[Gulfd'An]

I sort of save scum if I don't have any identifying items and don't want to get stuck with cursed junk on every part of my body. Also I always have back ups for when I acidentily attack hotzenplotz or the shopkeeper at level 8.

[adomer]

You're a cheating scum if you save; it ruins the spirit of the game...even if the game is going to crash.
Just my opinion

[MeshGearFox]

I save scum on the world map (primarily in towns, though) and never during quests or in dungeons. It doesn't really ruin the game for me. ADOM's just, for me, way too long of a game to play legitly, and besides. The lack of permadeath never ruined, say, Ultima 5 for me. I also really, really don't care about high scores or bragging rights. The playing of the game is what's fun for me. Not the winning of it. Anyway.

Reasoning for Save-scumming Pattern:

1) Towns are safe areas. I also consider the wilderness to be a semi-safe area, I guess.
2) Not saving in dungeons means you still need to play well there to get out. It also means I can't get some AWESOME THING, make a perma-save, and keep going back to it. If I want to keep whatever I just got (or whatever quest I finished) I need to get out of the dungeon/quest area.
3) I'm not cheating my way out of hostile situations in this sense.

[Baranor]

Thanks for staying positive! I think we should try to keep the insults to a minimum here. We all love this game, so lets keep our discussions on a positive level. After all this really is a game where there is only a competition between you and the game. So far as I know there are no ADOM World Championships!

As to save-scumming, I was about to quit playing the game forever because I was tired of taking hours and hours only to die because of a stupid mistake I made. Sometimes I wouldn't even know what mistake I made and it would take me many hours to get back to that same point and possibly make the same mistake again. Save-scumming allowed me to stay in the game and learn much more about the game. Once I won with that as a condition, I knew I hadn't really won. I know have won without using that ability and am very proud of that. My goal now is to do the ultra ending sans saving.

[Dental_floss]

Save-scumming completely ruins the game. Beating ADOM without cheating is one my finest video game accomplishments, and it simply isn't as rewarding to cheat your way though it.

[adomer]

Originally Posted by Dental_floss

Save-scumming completely ruins the game. Beating ADOM without cheating is one my finest video game accomplishments, and it simply isn't as rewarding to cheat your way though it.

Exactly, I only won once without cheating and it was my best video game accomplishment ever I must say.

[Baranor]

My greatest video game accomplishment was finishing world 1-1 in Super Mario Bros. in 11 seconds. Followed closely by winning ADOM without saving! Sadly, then I inadvertently killed a cat on I think level 48 so I couldn't get the Cat Lord bonus.

[adomer]

Originally Posted by Baranor

Thanks for staying positive! I think we should try to keep the insults to a minimum here. We all love this game, so lets keep our discussions on a positive level. After all this really is a game where there is only a competition between you and the game. So far as I know there are no ADOM World Championships!

As to save-scumming, I was about to quit playing the game forever because I was tired of taking hours and hours only to die because of a stupid mistake I made. Sometimes I wouldn't even know what mistake I made and it would take me many hours to get back to that same point and possibly make the same mistake again. Save-scumming allowed me to stay in the game and learn much more about the game. Once I won with that as a condition, I knew I hadn't really won. I know have won without using that ability and am very proud of that. My goal now is to do the ultra ending sans saving.

Believe me, I know what it's like to spend 15-20 hours on creating a character just to get petrified by a gorgon or blasted to death by Nuurag-Vaarn the Chaos Archmage. I just feel that people who "save their game" to avoid this type of problem aren't truly experiencing adom as it was meant to be experienced.

[MeshGearFox]

Well, games are for entertainment. If I don't find losing the 15-20 hours I spent on a character entertaining, I don't really see why I should play like that, even if it IS cheating to do otherwise. Additionally, ADOM is somewhat less random than many roguelikes. Substantially so, really. Repeating the non-changing bits constantly can get a bit tedious.

Anyway, there were a few other rules I had for balance:

4) Cannot save scum to determine if armor/weapon is cursed or not.
5) Picking up a negative trait (Mutation, wererat, etc.) is not valid grounds to restart from a backup.