Better method : Stair scumming books

[Dudley]

Note. This technique implies : You got Magic missile in your repertoire, and you are though enough to survive a little. Tension rooms are generated often. Just blast with an offensive spell once, then MM ^^

[modular]

So you are saying, stair hop till you feel a tension, then go clear the tension room? Thats not new, and it is hardly turn-efficient (but good for saving real life time yes).

Your use of magic missile, thats just common sense. Use MM>frost bolt>lightning>fire?>acid? to prevent item destruction. Also note the drakeling acid spit ability, it's great to save bolt spells and avoid item destruction.

[Soirana]

I'd say cast Invis and stair hop ignoring tension. Faster in real time.

[Grey]

I definitely agree with Soirana. A lighted torch helps see slightly further books and in dark rooms too. Of course it's much duller than clearing tension rooms.

[gut]

I'm begining to wonder as well.

Maybe an early game gremlin bong....

Roll wizzie witha wand of trap detection, rob Barnabus in
hopes of a spellbook of light, stairhop for it if unlucky,
hit level 13 in BUGWIL, get fluff ball, gremlin bong for
spellbooks and wishes....

Hmmm?

[Grey]

What's your obsession with bongs, gut? Also, I'm surprised to hear you suggest a strategy where Treasure Hunter is preferred... Anyway, I don't think it would be particularly turn-efficient, and you'd need to be quite careful of food if pasting lots of commands.

[Dudley]

You could probably get rapidly lots of water. With that water, you turn the gremlin cave into a magnificent herb making zone, with stoma.
(maybe my memories are glitched and holy water only works on already herb levels)

[gut]

> Anyway, I don't think it would be particularly turn-efficient,

I was thinking that it might be. No pickpocketing of course,
just light spell, and asuredly not in the gremlin cave. I was
thinking of higher danger levels. One turns spawns how
many gremlins? Five? Ten? In a few turns you can have
hundreds, and light costs what, 4 PP's? Should be no need
to paste commands.

> glitched and holy water only works on already herb levels

Holy water will grow you some stoma, but that's not what
I was thinking. I was really thinking of books and wishes.
Only need D:8 for wishes and D:1 for books.

Would the turn/book ratio make it worthwhile?

[Dudley]

What DL is the gremlin cave?

[Soirana]

<8. Although i would not be sure that books type does not depend DL.
I am not stating opposite either.

[Cute Dog Corpse]

Am I the only one that finds odd that spellbooks types are not dropped based on DL?
I mean, something must be seriously broken if you can enter ID:1 and get out later with acidball, improved fireball, teleport, invisibility, cure critical wounds.
It kinda breaks the game from the start; the basic idea should be that wizards get an easy endgame but should *SUFFER THE PAIN* surviving early-game.

[Silfir]

It is sort of balanced by the fact that the better spellbooks are harder to read and cost lots of PP. The gist is, yes, you can find a spellbook of Acid Ball on ID:1, but you have to get a couple of levels to read it properly, and some more to be able to cast it more than maybe once or twice a battle without bleeding HP - also, Acid Ball is not very powerful to begin with if your willpower is below 32. Okay, very powerful still, but not crazy.

That aside, using ID for getting items is basically like an endless fountain anyway. Many things get you endless items for basically free. ADOM gives the player a whole lot of freedom like that. If you think a wizard is supposed to have a hard time in the early game, then stop using the methods that make it easy, they are free for you to dispose of. Nowadays if I do play ADOM I just don't enter the ID unless I have to for an ultra (and I think my one ultra was quite enough too).

[Grey]

A wizard starting with a spellbook of lightning ball and decent Le (18+) can clear DarkForge within 1500 turns. Obviously a game as big and complex as ADOM is going to have many weak points that can be abused by us obsessive players.

[Twinge]

The Gremlin Cave IS DL5. Reading one cursed scroll of Danger will bump you bump to RoDS level guaranteed. Spellbook generation absolutely does not depend on DL.

[gut]

> Spellbook generation absolutely does not depend on DL.

I know they are all DL:1, but Elone once theorized that it
is more *likely* to find powerful spells on higher DL's.
What do you think?

[Twinge]

It's not. Spellbooks are DL1 items; their creation probability is tweaked based on your class, and the type of spellbook is simply a weighted random roll, with Wish being a 0.3&#37; chance and other spells going up from there =)

[Cute Dog Corpse]

and other spells going up from there =)

Yeah, and at the top we find :

Know Alignment : 30%
Light : 20%
Darkness : 15%
Calm monster : 10%

[_Ln_]

Yeah, and at the top we find :

Know Alignment : 30%
Light : 20%
Darkness : 15%
Calm monster : 10%

Know Alignment is incredibly rare for me =) I think Slow Poison and Slow Monster win the prize after Light/Darkness ;)

[Soirana]

well, i still believe in danger level and fact "percentage" depends on class.

[Grey]

Whatever the ratios are, they're certainly different for clerical and arcane casters. I do wonder if there's further subdivision within those two groups, and if maybe there's a different set for non-casters...

[Twinge]

Light & Darkness are the most common. Know Alignment is as rare as Acid Ball.

I'm pretty sure the ratios don't even differ between arcane versus clerical, but I haven't actually tested it so I suppose it's possible.

[prime]

You've gotta be kidding.

If I got Acid Ball for a starting spell as often as I get Know Alignment I would... probably still die in the UD but at least I'd feel bad about it.

[Silfir]

My limited experience does tell me that clerical spellcasters will find more clerical books than arcane ones and vice versa, but I will happily cave to solid evidence.

[Grey]

I am 100% certain that clericals will find much more healing spells and burning hands, and much less magic missile and ball spells. I honestly cannot stress how clear this is from playing enough wizards and priests. Finding a ball spell at all with a priest during the full course of the game is considered a lucky find (even with library visit and Treasure Hunter), whilst wizards are positively swimming in acid balls (uncomfortable though that may be).

[Silfir]

Aren't we pun-happy today!

Know Alignment is a clerical spell as far as I'm aware, and it is indeed quite rare for wizards as a result. Though all in all I'd say I find more Know Alignment with arcane casters than I do Rain of Sorrow with clerics.