View Full Version : 2 Quick questions
if i get Precrowned for one god, can i then safely sac the artefact to another god?
whats worth most for a DE ... saccing items (Prefix <Foo> of Suffix) or selling it to Waldenbrook and sac gold?
No idea about the first one.
whats worth most for a DE ... saccing items (Prefix <Foo> of Suffix) or selling it to Waldenbrook and sac gold?
I still don't know, but both are terrible. A waste of items or gold, I'd say. Either farm stomafillia or do livesacs instead.
Silfir
08-01-2010, 11:16 AM
What? Don't listen to him. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sacrificing gold. Stomafillia farming is boring as all get-out and livesaccing can be risky and is equally boring.
I am pretty sure the game doesn't keep track of which artifact was granted by which god, so you shouldn't sacrifice divine gifts at all. It's usually a bit more effective to sell items and sacrifice the gold instead. Which I guess answers the second question.
What? Don't listen to him. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sacrificing gold. Stomafillia farming is boring as all get-out and livesaccing can be risky and is equally boring.
Neither is too bad, and neither takes that long. Gold can be useful for shops before the Casino, after which you can obviously sac gold all you want but regarding precrowns that's usually a moot point. However, if you get all the gold you can get early on (arena, Kranach, crime lord, and even the gold you get from items) that is usually not enough to get anywhere near a precrown. So if you can't get precrowned and it's not an emergency, why sac your gold?
another one for the go
how dangerous is Diamond Golems? ...
just got though the forest and i don't think my health can handle going back (and no Teleportation abilities even though i've got TP), even with a fair share of Prayers underway ... so i'm wondering if i'm able to sneak though Dwarven Halls
Very. They're hard hitters, armored to the teeth (they're diamond, so they're obviously hard to break through), they're resistant to magic (immune to half the offensive spells), and they probably see invisible and through the darkness as well, although I'm not sure about those. If you have construct slaying ammo and are fast or can teleport, you might be able to take one on, but I recommend you avoid the monster in a wide circle until later on.
zsomkovacs
08-01-2010, 01:25 PM
Diamond golems are pretty dangerous, especially the ones in DH. I think they have a speed about 100, so if you can outrun them, you have a chance, but RNG can throw a monster into you path in a corridor, which can be deadly. They resist many elememtal attacks (I'm only not sure about acid), and shrug off most bolts. They have high PV and they can hit hard. I don't remember if they regenerate or not, but maybe they do. Don't you have potions of invisibility or darkness spell?
Overheat
08-01-2010, 02:21 PM
Stoma is easy if you get herbs not in the big room.
Hold down "," w5, then hold down ",". Repeat until 100 blessed stoma.
zsomkovacs
08-01-2010, 02:49 PM
For the unanswered first question:
You CAN sacrifice it to another god, and you won't be doomed. I didn't knew it, so I started a new char and tested it. I used the 'very exploitive bug' to get enough starting money for the precrown. I found a neutral altar on D:1, and I was lawful, so I went down to Dwarftown and got precrowned. (after some experience level problems, as RNG was nice enough to give the scorched spear to me in Dwarftown). I got the rune-covered sling, and I was happy to sacrifice it. I went back to D:1 and stood on the neutral altar.
I did three tries:
1) I converted to neutral alignment and sacced the sling.
2) I remained lawful and sacced the sling, converting the altar to lawful in the progress.
3) I sacced gold and converted the altar to lawful, and then sacced the sling.
In the third case, the lawful god got annoyed, obviously. I finished doomed ane cursed.
In the first case the god was happy with the gift, and didn't doom nor curse me.
In the second case I didn't get doomed nor cursed and the altar converted. This may be a good way to get rid of the useless precrowning gifts.
Maybe the results are not so surprising, if we look at the message that an annoyed deity gives:
'You dare to sacrifice my gifts at MY holy place?!?'.
well ... got though the forest again with 2 Crystal Large Shields and coward
... reason i'm asking about Precrowning stuff is that i'm a DE Beastmaster which got Scorched Spear :p
I used the 'very exploitive bug' to get enough starting money for the precrown.
Next time, download Adombot instead.
moomoo
08-01-2010, 02:56 PM
Don't sell anything to Waldenbrook as a dark elf iirc.
zsomkovacs
08-01-2010, 03:09 PM
I won't download Adombot. Exploiting bugs to makes things faster is much more OK for me, then real cheating. I don't count bug-exploited wins as real wins, though.
I won't download Adombot. Exploiting bugs to makes things faster is much more OK for me, then real cheating. I don't count bug-exploited wins as real wins, though.
You're not playing to win either way. Why not just use Adombot then?
...You're not saying you actually intended to complete the game with your bug-exploited character, are you?
...Why is exploiting a bug worse than "cheating" (not that they aren't the same) if the result is the same?
I could go on regarding how many things I disagree with you on in that post, but those should be enough for now.
Dudley
08-01-2010, 03:19 PM
... reason i'm asking about Precrowning stuff is that i'm a DE Beastmaster which got Scorched Spear :p
Simple answer : getting precrowned as a beastie is next to useless, especially considering that ALL crowning gifts are superb.
Silfir
08-01-2010, 03:21 PM
He already said he won't count that win as a real win, which is all one needs to know when it comes right down to it :)
Simple answer : getting precrowned as a beastie is next to useless, especially considering that ALL crowning gifts are superb.
It's not useless if you're going for an ultra. I'd rather feed a scorched spear as a beastie than have to make tough decisions about getting rid of artifacts that don't suck. Sometimes you'll get enough bad artifacts, but sometimes not, so this may become an issue. Besides, a precrowning is a free artifact at little cost, so why miss the chance to get an extra piece of ownage?
Dudley
08-01-2010, 03:28 PM
It's not useless if you're going for an ultra.
True
so why not miss the chance to get an extra piece of ownage?
Because a DE Beastie owns the world ten times over backwards? And you can postcrown if the crowning artie was less than uber.
> Exploiting bugs to makes things faster is much more OK for me, then real cheating
So, no adombot for testing purposes? Odd.
> if you're going for an ultra. I'd rather sac a scorched spear as a beastie
That's the time you DON'T want to destroy artifacts, but rather feed them to someone.
Sell artifacts to Leggot and sac the gold. Since you'll be selling everything to Leggot,
make sure to spend some time on his level so he can restock his gold supply.
> if you're going for an ultra. I'd rather sac a scorched spear as a beastie
That's the time you DON'T want to destroy artifacts, but rather feed them to someone.
Sell artifacts to Leggot and sac the gold. Since you'll be selling everything to Leggot,
make sure to spend some time on his level so he can restock his gold supply.
Did I type sac? I meant feed. Sorry.
zsomkovacs
08-01-2010, 03:45 PM
You're not playing to win either way. Why not just use Adombot then?
...You're not saying you actually intended to complete the game with your bug-exploited character, are you?
...Why is exploiting a bug worse than "cheating" (not that they aren't the same) if the result is the same?
1) I don't like hack-up-the-savegames (or the memory, I don't know exactly how adombot works) programs. I don't think it's based on wide-ranged observation, but on code-diving and hacking up executables, which I don't like, especially because I'm quite interested in programming - I would hate if someone would hack up my program.
Exploiting bugs is BETTER than cheating. While exploiting, you do some work (a lot less than you should, but you still do), but when you cheat, it's like 'I'm too lazy to even do a single move, so I use something, what I never worked on/for to have a comfortable life.' If you write a program to cheat (DON'T DO IT!), I'd say 'OK, you worked for it enough', but downloading others program to do it... It's too easy for me.
And I'm not going to do anything with this char - if there'll be no new question about precrowning-gift-saccing, I'll delete the savegame.
since i allready started here i think i can just as well continue
... how to pour holy water on Griff's Grave?
zsomkovacs
08-01-2010, 03:50 PM
Just simply stand on the grave and 'U'se the water. (you can't put it in the tool slot)
1) I don't like hack-up-the-savegames (or the memory, I don't know exactly how adombot works) programs. I don't think it's based on wide-ranged observation, but on code-diving and hacking up executables, which I don't like, especially because I'm quite interested in programming - I would hate if someone would hack up my program.
Exploiting bugs is BETTER than cheating. While exploiting, you do some work (a lot less than you should, but you still do), but when you cheat, it's like 'I'm too lazy to even do a single move, so I use something, what I never worked on/for to have a comfortable life.' If you write a program to cheat (DON'T DO IT!), I'd say 'OK, you worked for it enough', but downloading others program to do it... It's too easy for me.
And I'm not going to do anything with this char - if there'll be no new question about precrowning-gift-saccing, I'll delete the savegame.
That's an interesting mentality you have there, but if you work for 10 minutes to get an illegal and quite massive advantage in a game, you're no better than any of us here who will instead open up Adombot, edit in $100000 and then screw around with that. And that's because both of the above are cheating. There is no "good cheating" or "bad cheating", they're all the same.
fazisi
08-01-2010, 06:54 PM
Some people believe that in-game testing using Adombot is inaccurate since real in-game tests should use the unmodified ADOM code to be accurate.
> Exploiting bugs is BETTER than cheating
Exploiting bugs is cheating. Adombot doesn't hack
save files, it edits memory adresses. It is the easiest way
to test things.
> While exploiting, you do some work
There is a magical quantity of work? One that, when reached,
makes it OK to test things? Odd.
You are thinking maybe it is beyond our abilities to create
powerful PC's legitimately? That the only way we can test
is by cheating? It isn't, we are total ADOM nerds. Besides,
there are archmage save files that are available for anyone
to dl. Cheating is just for convenience and testing, nothing
else.
EDIT:
>real in-game tests should use the unmodified ADOM code
adombot never changes the exe
zsomkovacs
08-01-2010, 07:32 PM
No, I don't think you can't create powerful PC-s in regular ways. Furthermore, I didn't say that even with a single word.
And no, there's no magical quantity, but I still like to do something more than typing in for example 'I want 10000 gold' and getting it. If you want to use adombot, do it, I won't, because I don't like the way it works. It's still a kind of cheating, but it's more acceptable for me.
The reason I mention it is this, if one has access to an archmage save file,
or just creates one themselves, adombot isn't much of an improvement
over that. The main advantages being earlier access and increased PC
attribute editing.
zsomkovacs
08-01-2010, 08:46 PM
I understand the benefits of using adombot, and I know, it's a powerful testing tool. I don't have any problem with other people using it. But I won't do it, because I'm aganist code-diving. I usually don't even exploit the bugs, but getting precrowned is a little long time to do, and by the time I'd do it in a normal way, the results would be unneeded. And beside code-diving I have another reason not to use adombot... My life is somehow about making new goals and reaching them. I like to do it, even if it's hard some times. Using adombot would be a so easy way to reach what I want, that it'd make my life a little pointless...
OK, it became a bit stronger than I really feel, but I think you'll understand what I want to say. Sorry, but I can't explain it much better in English.
okay ... gotten futher than ever, so i got a new question ...
how to kill a moloch?
DE Beastmaster lvl 18 :p
vogonpoet
08-02-2010, 10:18 AM
What's your speed like relative to the moloch? It might be possible to hit it and step backwards before it can hit, wait for it to move next to you again, hit it, and step backwards, etc. If not, run away and deal with him later when you have a few more levels.
Silfir
08-02-2010, 10:18 AM
Molochs have huge PV, so you have to be able to deal loads of damage to get past, and they deal nasty melee damage, but are very slow. You're way removed from being able to do it in melee anyway (unarmed combat means no bless damage bonus, and it's level-dependent and high level you are not). If you have trained in a missile weapon, and own demon slaying ammunition, you should bless it and get to work. If you are really good at missiles, you might be able to deal significant damage simply using blessed arrows or quarrels. Blessed because it increases damage by 50% against demons. Molochs are demons.
If you've got wands and booze to waste, you can eventually slay the dreadful creature using magic missiles and possibly acid.
Either way, at level 18, keep your distance. Kill it with ranged weapons or just leave. It's very, very easy to run from molochs.
ended up leaving it behind (specially because it was on the same level as the fire wall) but not before i pick pocketed a Wand of Wishing (5) from it :D
... my first thinking is grabbing some Cure Corruptions with it (specially since i got cranium Corruption and abused it for some more Toughness training) ... but is there anything else i should wish as well
by the way ... i've gotten the Chaos Orb of Water now, so i think i'll go get Ring of High Kings, and raid Darkforge, followed by Fire Orb
... my first thinking is grabbing some Cure Corruptions with it (specially since i got cranium Corruption and abused it for some more Toughness training) ... but is there anything else i should wish as well
You mean, chaos resistance.
6 wishes are a lot, you can go crazy with it. Just leave 1 or 2 for any needs that might arise later on. Red dragon scale mails are good for ToEF if you need fire immunity and a great armor to boot. SLBs are also a good choice. I'd even say it's not too late to wish for Food Preservation. Or you could wish for an AoLS, who knows, it may come in useful.
SLB's are kinda meh for a Beastmaster since lvl 18 (which i'm allready at) means that my movement is allready at 700 and my speed is rather high (119 while strained currently)
so
Scrolls of Chaos Resistence
Red Dragon Scale Mails
Food Presevation is a good one that i just might take ... otherwise i think i just might have everything i need allready in the skills department ... can you wish for Courage?
maybe a Girdle of Giant Strength?
Silfir
08-02-2010, 01:38 PM
Yes, you can wish for Courage. You might not exactly need to - Beastfighters are melee fighters with low magic and might have to fight their way out if surrounded, but getting surrounded tends to be quite avoidable. Plus you get a class power that makes it easy to get out of being surrounded. Basically, Courage gives you a huge bonus - in a situation you should never find yourself in the first place.
Then again, the later elemental temples heavily encourage getting surrounded - in the air temple you really want to get to Yulgash rather than wait for him to get to you, because he can summon half a continent's worth of creatures on you before that ever happens. (My last Yulgash fight had werewolf kings.) In the Earth temple, you can't use choke points to evade monsters (though you're pretty fast enough). In the Chaos temple, you might want to move in to assassinate the chaos wizards rather than spend eternities at the choke points, and you basically need Courage to function properly. One could argue that thanks to the ability to swap with hostile monsters (eventually), Courageous beastfighters can actually bypass a lot of debilitating mook-killing while preserving most of their abilities.
I've never understood the raging hard-on some people have for Food Preservation that they keep wishing for it long after food problems might ever rear its ugly head - I guess stat-increasing corpses are just that neato. The girdle of giant strength is a pretty awesome item, but sadly vulnerable to all forms of item destruction except rust, so if you're fine with constantly paying attention for it not to go up in smokes...
I like having unused wishes, even if more often than not they stay unused. And honestly, I think that is the most sensible approach if you have a wish and can't think of anything you really want that much.
moomoo
08-02-2010, 02:49 PM
I'd say with 6 wishes - wish whatever you like.
Get courage, get red dragon scales for tower, get stuff, get socr's, get crazy!
pew ... Tough fight getting the Fire Orb ... was down kissing 1 hp 2 times (healing myself with Water Orb gaining 2 Corruptions ... 1/10 weight and antennae ... in hindsight i should proberly have used Water Orb earlier
now i have everything needed from above and doesn't really expect to go up again before i'm dead or done :) ... and still 2 wishes to go (used them for Red Dragon Scale Mails, Courage, ?oCr and GoGS)
fazisi
08-02-2010, 11:09 PM
Rings of slaying are pretty awesome for a beastfighter.
vogonpoet
08-03-2010, 06:37 AM
Yeah, rings of slaying sound pretty good for a beastie wish. Don't underestimate the worth of the seven league boots if you fancy doing an ultimate - surface travel time is always nice to minimise.
bleh ... my save is corrupted so now i'm back to my backup save just before ToEF again ... *sighs*
after leaving some time in rage over the lost save after the tower i've done it again ... and it was friendly enough to cook the wyrm corpse for me so i could take it back to the Druid
... anything else i should do before i start the major dive? (got High Kings and looted DF)
interestingly enough, while in the tower i found a tension room full of Frost Giant Beserkers ... kinda out of place :P
JellySlayer
08-06-2010, 01:10 PM
For some reason frost monsters seem surprisingly likely to appear in the ToEF. Or at least, when they do show up, people pay attention ;)
If you've done High Kings, you're probably good to go for your dive. You could do Rift/Maze first if you really wanted, but I'd recommend at least getting to Casino (and cat lord if you're on your way to the ring) before either at this point.
For some reason frost monsters seem surprisingly likely to appear in the ToEF. Or at least, when they do show up, people pay attention ;)
If you've done High Kings, you're probably good to go for your dive. You could do Rift/Maze first if you really wanted, but I'd recommend at least getting to Casino (and cat lord if you're on your way to the ring) before either at this point.
Cat Lord is a no-go ... got swamped with a Cave Lion Tension Room back in puppy cave with the stairs behind them :p
JellySlayer
08-06-2010, 02:22 PM
Just so it's clear, I don't recommend doing the Maze, pretty much ever. The Rift is worth doing if you're a caster missing some important spells or if you're desperate for SoCR. But those are pretty much the only options you have (I guess BugCave too) before you descend at this point.
grobblewobble
08-06-2010, 04:53 PM
> I don't recommend doing the Maze, pretty much ever.
With an early wish and a character that can put the axe to good use I'd consider doing the BugCave and using the scrolls of magic mapping for the Maze. But then again, I just like having an overpowered axe. From a rational cost / benefit point of view, it's hard to disagree.
overpowered axe is worth nothing when Beastmaster :p
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