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View Full Version : General JADE ideas, races, classes, weapons, skills, etc.



CloudKing
07-03-2011, 10:05 AM
a few JADE ideas,

races,
goblin
minotaur
black hurthling

classes,
Summoner,
a casting type class with bonuses to companions
engineer,
can build mechanical minions from machine parts,can build traps, can build doors.
alchemist,
gets more recipes from alchemy, can brew potions that explode when thrown, can turn water into holy water for the price of one permanent mana loss. (semi-permanent).

weapons,
Shuriken(throwing stars)

skills,
fishing,
can fish for food
masonry,
can build walls

misc.,
randomly generated open caverns in dungeons,
slim chance to encounter randomely generated ratling trader in dungeons
a guaranteed pet shop

spells,
Improved acid ball
Improved ice ball etc.
Animate wall
Rain of fire
similar to earthquake covers the whole map ( randomly casts "burning hands" around the dungeon)
Summon rats
summons giant rats to fight for you (all adjacant squares around you)

these are just a few i thought of

EbbeLockert
07-05-2011, 11:49 AM
As for your skills:

I would also love having a masonry skill or something similar that lets you build structures and shape the world in even more ways than before (we have mining, but that is only destructive, and bridge building, which is extremely limited).

Fishing, on the other hand, I fail to see the point in, as survival give the exact same benefits. It would be a better idea if survival gave different foodsorts based on the terrain (fish when close to water, berries and roots in the mountains, meat in the hills, etc).

Grey
07-05-2011, 04:25 PM
In ADOM Survival already gives fish on water and seed on land.

Moeba
07-05-2011, 09:24 PM
Animate wall with 100% chance of success, but proficiency increases chance that the wall is NOT hostile? :D
Rain of Fire underground sounds somewhat... strange.
I don't know if mindcrafter will be a class in Jade too, but if so then I thought of this optional idea: the ability 'spirit link': shot like a mind blast but low range, the enemies hit are linked like this: damage done to one enemy also damages the others. Guess powerful monsters should be able to either shrug off or evade it.

JellySlayer
07-05-2011, 10:33 PM
For races, how about something that takes advantage of some interesting functionality:

Marilith
-Chaotic/evil by default
-Female only
-Has 6 arms
-No legs, but does have a tail
-Slow

Aielyn
07-06-2011, 02:06 AM
Fishing, on the other hand, I fail to see the point in, as survival give the exact same benefits.

What if the Fishing ability worked within dungeons and in cities with rivers? Imagine working your way through a dungeon, finding yourself low on food, and then stumbling across an underground river.

Perhaps it could even, when underground, have a chance of generating hostile normally-underwater monsters, who would be restricted, of course, to the water (sharks, for instance).

Grey
07-06-2011, 02:24 AM
Freshwater sharks? Hmm...

JellySlayer
07-06-2011, 09:44 PM
I don't see why you wouldn't just make it that you can use the survival skill (or whatever) in rivers or other non-wilderness areas rather than creating a whole new skill.

CloudKing
07-25-2011, 03:21 AM
a few JADE ideas, (updated)

races,
goblin
minotaur
black hurthling

classes,
Summoner,
a casting type class with bonuses to companions
engineer,
can build traps, can build doors.bridges etc.
alchemist,
gets more recipes from alchemy, can brew potions that explode when thrown, can turn water into holy water for the price of one permanent mana loss. (semi-permanent).

weapons,
Shuriken(throwing stars)
spiked shields
exploding potions

skills,
fishing,
can fish for food(survival skill probably would suffice)
masonry,
can build walls
persuasion,
can sway targets alignment toward own(chance the target will get angry if failed attempt)

misc.,
randomly generated open caverns in dungeons,
slim chance to encounter randomly generated ratling trader in dungeons or in towns.
a guaranteed (figurine shop)
the ability to write a spell book on a blank tomb with a writing set (maybe a class ability for wizards?)
much more random dungeon features(not in rarity of occurrence, i mean in number of possible features)
altars of an opposing alignment could spawn minions of that religion to attack the PC?
underground dark elf city?"finally some good prices"
more balance classes,weapons etc.
more weapons, more races, more skills, more items, more quests, dungeon features, spells, etc. etc.etc.

spells,
Improved acid ball,
Improved ice ball etc.,
Animate wall,
Rain of fire,
similar to earthquake covers the whole map ( randomly casts "burning hands" around the dungeon)
Summon rats,
summons giant rats to fight for you (all adjacent squares around you)
Encase,
creates walls on squares around you
Enslave,
take control of target undead (wears off, target undead becomes hostile)(necromancy skill could help lower PP cost)
Fire Storm,
casts a ball of fire around you and bolts of fire in every direction
Weakened state,
a significant boost to healing, DV and PV reduced to 0 for the duration of the spell
Some form of mark and recall would be cool,

Items,
Scroll of create spell book (rare)
Scroll of elemental resistance (rare)(adds resistance intrinsic to a random worn item)
Scroll of control(+ to teleport control, - if cursed)
would be nice if scroll of item destruction would let you choose the item if blessed,(or an altogether new scroll that allows for this)
these are just a few i thought of

Moeba
07-29-2011, 08:14 PM
I like it that you can only loot shops right now and not buy any items :) I suggest we keep this feature :p

gut
07-30-2011, 02:48 AM
great idea!

i also wanna to keep slaying all villagers with no alignment hit.

these are just dreams, but one can dream...

ironcash
08-22-2011, 05:26 AM
I'de really like to see some more terrain implemented. For example: arctic, jungle, desert. I like the idea of having to climb up some slippery ice covered mountains to reach the frost giant stronghold or something like that.

Something else that just popped in my head. Random encounters in the water, having to fight off sharks, or a kraken in the middle of the ocean should be fun

Knyte
08-22-2011, 04:50 PM
a few JADE ideas, (updated)


engineer,
can build traps, can build doors.bridges etc.


maybe an engineer can build siege engines (catapults, trebuchets, etc) that act either as ranged weapons or as companions?

CloudKing
09-12-2011, 12:50 AM
ok rings,
ring of lifting (increased carrying capacity)
ring of easy open (doors no longer stick when worn)
ring of extended magic (+1 to all bolt spell ranges)(cursed -1)
ring of casting (-1 to all casting costs)
ring of quiet casting (allows for casting spells even when not able to speak)
ring of hunting (increased chance of enemy dropping corpse when fighting unarmed)
ring of ghostly hands (adds aging effect to unarmed attacks)
ring of lightning fists (adds lightning damage to unarmed attacks)
ring of learning (+1%xp gain)
ring of water walking (allows to walk on water)
ring of health (decreased chance of sickness or disease)
ring of youth (decreases the rate of aging)

CloudKing
09-13-2011, 01:01 AM
ok wands,
wand of djinni trapping (if jade allows for encounters with djinni "if it does, I would guess these encounters would be rare" zap the djinni and trap it inside a ring)
wand of aging (zapping will age)
wand of ressurection (zap undead to bring back to life)(ex.goblin skeleton becomes goblin)(zap grave to raise zombie)
wand of animate wall (zap wall to make living wall)
wand of wall creation (zap to create wall)
wand of room creation (zap to create walls around you with one locked door)

Aielyn
09-13-2011, 05:04 AM
I'd like to do a bit of critiquing of CloudKing's ideas:

ok rings,
ring of lifting (increased carrying capacity) <- A ring increasing carrying capacity? How about if it just nullifies the weight of the weapon wielded in that hand (or half of a two-handed weapon's weight). "Ring of Wielding" might work as a name.
ring of easy open (doors no longer stick when worn) <- Good idea, bad name. How about "Ring of Smooth Entry"? Or alternatively, "Doorbell Ring"?
ring of extended magic (+1 to all bolt spell ranges)(cursed -1) <- Name sounds a bit clunky. How about something like "Ring of Distance", and let it impact all bolts, missiles, etc?
ring of casting (-1 to all casting costs) <- "Ring of Casting" sounds too generic, doesn't capture the feel of it. How about "Ring of Potent Aura", as a reference to the talent?
ring of quiet casting (allows for casting spells even when not able to speak) <- Good, but I'd go with something like "Ring of Silent Magic".
ring of hunting (increased chance of enemy dropping corpse when fighting unarmed) <- "Ring of the Hunt"?
ring of ghostly hands (adds aging effect to unarmed attacks) <- I like the idea, but it should also prevent you from wielding most weapons (phase daggers could be an exception) in the hand that the ring is on. That way, cursed rings of this sort may be quite a problem.
ring of lightning fists (adds lightning damage to unarmed attacks) <- Rather than lighting damage for unarmed attacks, how about just making unarmed attacks faster?
ring of learning (+1&#37;xp gain) <- Idea good, but the name might be confusing, given the Learning stat. How about "Ring of Experience"?
ring of water walking (allows to walk on water) <- I think this should be named after a classic mythological figure. "Ring of Mes'siah"? Perhaps the joke could be extended, by also having it make the wielder able to cure disease in others (but not the wielder) by touch.
ring of health (decreased chance of sickness or disease) <- OK
ring of youth (decreases the rate of aging) <- I think "Ring of Stasis" would sound better. And it could also slow the rate of food consumption... but cursed rings of this sort would have a reverse effect.


ok wands,
wand of djinni trapping <- I think this would work better as a ring that you throw at a djinni.
wand of aging (zapping will age) <- A more poetic name would work, here - "Wand of the Ravage of Time", perhaps?
wand of ressurection <- It's "Wand of Resurrection", just to correct a typo, and I'd suggest that it should only actually resurrect if used within a certain time of the death, otherwise it should only reanimate, with "recent" dead becoming zombies and "ancient dead" becoming skeletons.
wand of animate wall (zap wall to make living wall) <- Interesting idea, and a good reason not to just randomly zap a wand at a wall on an angle. But how about just "Wand of Animation", and let it also animate statues, trees, and it could even become useful for artificers who want to make golems. Would work quite well in conjunction with a wand of petrification.
wand of wall creation (zap to create wall) <- Not sure about this one. Something tells me that magically-created walls aren't a great idea, because of the ease of either abuse or screwing up things.
wand of room creation (zap to create walls around you with one locked door) <- Not a fan of this idea. Too easy to end up getting yourself trapped (not by the locked door, but by walls landing in the wrong places).

Now, for a few of my own ideas:

wand of healing aura - heals all beings within a certain radius, obviously useful against undead as well as for healing companions (and yourself).
wand of defence/protection - when used to cast, acts like a scroll of defense/protection, respectively. May also be wielded, in which case it acts like a shield, boosting defence or protection, but taking one pp per dodged hit or hit, respectively.
wand of burning hands - like burning hands spell when used to cast. May also be wielded, in which case it takes one PP per attack, and does whip-type fire damage.
wand of shock force/sub zero/the drakeling - similar to wand of burning hands, but for electric/cold/acid types. "Shock force" is a reference to star wars, with the Force, while "sub zero" is a reference to Mortal Kombat. Obviously, "the drakeling" references the racial ability of drakelings.
wand of kinesis - when wielded, does decent blunt damage at 1 pp cost. Casting can destroy doors, fling NPCs back multiple spaces, or repel flowing liquids (like water, lava, etc).
wand of wind - summons a vortex. Vortex will be a basic (not found in ADoM) wind vortex, unless cast in certain contexts. Acid vortices are created by casting on top of an acid trap, and Fire vortices by casting on top of a fireball trap or a forge. Casting on ice squares (think of the frictionless ice of D:49 - just random single spaces of them) gives ice vortices. Lightning vortices would be more complicated, though. Also, wind vortices that travel over appropriate spaces would also gain elemental properties (so, a wind vortex passing over a forge would become a fire vortex).

CloudKing
09-14-2011, 12:25 AM
@Aielyn
good critiquing. I especially like your twist on the "wand of animation",and most of the name changes do roll off the tongue a little better.

ironcash
09-16-2011, 12:47 AM
I'de like to see monsters that took up more than one square (maybe) I could imagine how terrified i'de be walking into a cavernous room with a 2X2 red D (maybe even 3X3!) I don't know how it could be shown though to have a snake that would be 1X3. but i think larger monsters would better visually display enormous monsters, as well as allowing new tactics and problems

CloudKing
09-26-2011, 10:51 AM
ok some scrolls,
scroll of altar jump (read to teleport from one altar to another altar)
scroll of item alteration (reading will change the wieght/weight class of an item)
scroll of practice (read to gain marks in equipped weapon)
scroll of calm weather (read to get rid of bad weather for a time)
recipe (I took this from someone elses post but its a good idea) (read to gain knowlege of a random potion recipe)

minchazo
09-26-2011, 07:24 PM
I'd like to do a bit of critiquing of CloudKing's ideas:

ring of water walking (allows to walk on water) <- I think this should be named after a classic mythological figure. "Ring of Mes'siah"? Perhaps the joke could be extended, by also having it make the wielder able to cure disease in others (but not the wielder) by touch.


And turns all potions to booze!

Knyte
09-26-2011, 09:55 PM
ok some scrolls,

recipe (I took this from someone elses post but its a good idea) (read to gain knowlege of a random potion recipe)

why stop with potions? why not cooking recipes as well? of course that might lead to cooking contests, recipe quests, and the wholesale slaughtering of critters to get the right ingredients...hmm...nah, the rewards would probably be lame :P

dallonj
10-20-2011, 06:19 AM
I think herbalist or shaman would be a way cool class, an extension of the herbalism skill, you could make all kinds of healing and damaging potions and or ointments. In connections with this we would need a lot of new herbs, and maybe the chance to cross different strains/species of herbs. it would be great to cross an herb that raises strength with one that raises learning. Like an elementalist most new knowledge for shamans/herbalists would come from meditation and using sacred plants. also i like the idea of hallucinations in the game it could say "tripping balls" in the bottom left corner of the screen hahaha.

i think i said this elsewhere but brewer/distiller would be a fun class, and could share some basic precepts with alchemy and herbalism with crossover skills. good chances to create sophisticated and nearly undetectable poisons. also, the tavern could be a great center of activity. you should be able to play music for money. gambling would be a cool minigame, instead of slot machines you could play card games or something with the NPCs. I'm sure you could get some information on interesting caves and whatnot



i think monk as a class would be cool too, but with the opportunity to train in a monastery, you would practice combat, meditate, gather food, make copies of books and or scrolls, do quests like that for the elders in return for learning skills, weapon marks and whatever secret knowledge they might have

a breeder class would be cool, similar to a bard i guess, you could capture and breed exotic animals, sell them for a profit or use them as weapons, imagine if you could breed a dragon-hydra hybrid. this would of course raise the need for new types of traps, cages, very deep pits with no escape upwards. great opportunities to be captured by some maniacal ogre king or what have you, that'd be pretty boss.

depending on the roles kings and governments play, something like a translator or warlord, while not terribly exciting, the opportunity would just be awesome.

CloudKing
11-02-2011, 08:24 AM
I like the idea of an herbalist being a class

CloudKing
11-04-2011, 05:57 AM
ok a few ideas, a few of which were inspired by features in dwarf fortress

up/down stairway: a chance to have the stairway go both up and down a level
floor hatch: a chance to have a stairway be generated with a hatch cover (could be locked/trapped) could still be kicked open like a door
hunting dog: a tame hunting dog could grant more corpses from its kills
camping: heal faster in the wilderness if camped(would require a tent)
animal specific hunting weapons: example (sling of rat hunting)
mercenaries for hire: hireling vendors
dragon mounts: fast and safe wilderness travel

xan
11-05-2011, 04:10 AM
I'd like to see more variety of weapons in JADE, specifically oriental weapons, like the Kukri, Kama, Nunchaku, Sai and Shuriken.

Aielyn
11-13-2011, 07:39 AM
And turns all potions to booze!

If the idea is going to be pushed that far, it should go whole-hog. Although, I'd make it only turn potions of *water* into booze (which would get rather frustrating, if it happened to be cursed).

So let's see how many appropriate effects could be had...

- Grants ability to walk on water.
- Allows wearer to heal disease in other beings by touch.
- When worn, any potions of water touched will turn into potions of booze.
- While worn, any normal bread or fish in pack will duplicate similarly to how the Si does in ADoM.
- Is a demon-slayer when thrown.

There must be more possibilities.

CloudKing
11-15-2011, 08:42 AM
If the idea is going to be pushed that far, it should go whole-hog. Although, I'd make it only turn potions of *water* into booze (which would get rather frustrating, if it happened to be cursed).

So let's see how many appropriate effects could be had...

- Grants ability to walk on water.
- Allows wearer to heal disease in other beings by touch.
- When worn, any potions of water touched will turn into potions of booze.
- While worn, any normal bread or fish in pack will duplicate similarly to how the Si does in ADoM.
- Is a demon-slayer when thrown.

There must be more possibilities.

made stronger when also wearing crown of thorns:
peity gain is doubled
peity loss is cut in half
acts as amulet of life saving upon death (waits three days game time then brings back)
companions follow orders without question

_Ln_
11-15-2011, 11:30 AM
companions follow orders without question

And each has a chance to turn on you and summon holy slayers.

CloudKing
11-20-2011, 12:33 AM
I found some hurthling weed in JADE and I was thinking,,.. everybody knows that hurthling weed is for smoking.. so I think pipes would be a nice addition.. (I believe I remember someone else already suggested this).. would open up a lot of doors for the herbalism skill.

CloudKing
11-20-2011, 12:38 AM
I'd like to see more variety of weapons in JADE, specifically oriental weapons, like the Kukri, Kama, Nunchaku, Sai and Shuriken.
I agree and would also like to see some sort of oriental class as well.

CloudKing
11-24-2011, 04:01 AM
ok a few more ideas, this time town related.

GOVERNING NPC:
have a chance to generate a named NPC such as an elder or
leader in towns
TOWN DUNGEON:
if town generated an elder or leader than have an additional
chance to generate an in-town dungeon that the elder could ask you to
clear (similar to Ogre cave in dwarf town)
TOWN DUNGEON ALTERNATE:
if town dungeon generated than have an additional
chance that named leader of dungeon gets generated (maybe named
leader might request the town get cleared)
TOWN REBELLIONS:
if town elder or leader generated than have additional
chance that town rebellion is generated.perhaps some citizens are
secretly rebels and leader of said rebellion might ask you to assist
in getting rid of the old elder or leader so that he may take his place
alternatively the current elder or leader might ask you to rid the
town of the rebels
MIGRANTS:
if town elder or leader does get generated have an additional chance
of him requesting you "steal" citizens from other towns.
LOCAL RAIDERS:
if town elder or leader gets generated than have additional
chance the he requests you "rid the countryside" of raiders or orcs
or something of the sorts (similar to "Kranach quest" in terinyo
GAURD:
if a law does get broken it would make sense there might be a gaurd
or two around to keep the peace.
HIDDEN TOWNS:
maybe the presence of some towns were not advertized(perhaps
if inhabitants wanted it that way) and would not be revieled unless
directly walked into.
SUBTERRANEAN TOWNS :
in the case of dwarves,orcs,dark elves,etc. these
towns could be generated randomly inside dungeons.

I am curious as to what other peoples ideas for possible town features might be.

Cass
11-24-2011, 01:58 PM
I would love those dungeons in towns, and the subterranean towns too. Also, your other ideas :)

I'd like to see:
- Nomads, a town that moves around regularly. There could be quests to find them with a urgent message or something.
- Regular caravans between towns (that could be ambushed by raiders). Protecting a caravan could be a quest.
- Now that there are are going to be armies, I'd also expect destroyed and abandoned towns, where you could find loot or help survivors, maybe try to rebuild. Hey, you could maybe become the leader of such a town yourself.
- or towns taken over by a army. You could try to free the citizens, or aid the warlord.
- Cemeteries in towns that are haunted or other trouble with a local necromancer.
- Most towns would have defenses such as walls, spikes, water or swamp. And guards or hired soldiers. Though for some races, every citizen might be a combatant or caster.

Aielyn
11-24-2011, 04:59 PM
ok a few more ideas, this time town related.
<snip>
I am curious as to what other peoples ideas for possible town features might be.
You know, your ideas mesh really well with an idea I posted as a comment on one of Thomas's facebook posts.

Basically, a rudimentary NPC AI system could be implemented that establishes "motivations" for each character. For most common folk, the possible motivations would be very restrictive. However, for leaders and other such characters, there would be a broad range of motivations that influence behaviour to such an extent that they generate stories. With such motivations created, the game could be coded to specifically generate certain combinations of characters and motivations in order to set certain events in motion.

For instance, as you say, each town would have a reasonable chance of generating a leader, with larger towns having higher probability. The leader's motivation would typically be something like "town safety". With this motivation, if there are a lot of marauders around, the leader might ask you to do a "local raiders" quest. If the town is generated with a town dungeon, the same leader may instead ask you to clear that dungeon (or explore it). However, other motivations would be possible, such as "convert others to own religion", "build an army", or "enjoy self". In this last case, the leader would likely spend a lot of time at an inn if one is generated, would be seen as lazy and useless by the people of the town, and would be risking rebellion.

And to up the ante, it would be possible for some townsfolk to have the "rebel" motivation. Rebellion motivations would have a tendency to spread, but would depend on the townsfolk's "loyalty", which would be a combination of leader charisma and the town's alignment. If a rebellion is in progress, the rebelling townsperson with the highest charisma would be the rebel leader. Other factors, such as willpower, would influence timing and results of such rebellions. However, rebels would be very rare in orderly towns to begin with, and even in chaotic towns, they'd be uncommon.

So, to use the example of Fnuk III, the "king" would be generated with the "enjoy self" motivation, while Fnuk would be generated with the "rebel" motivation and a particularly high charisma. However, the king's charisma would be chosen at random, and thus may ensure high enough loyalty to keep Fnuk in his place, for instance.

So, how do you use motivations to actually generate stories? Simple - motivation chains. If a rebel successfully leads a rebellion, that rebel will become a new leader. But what is the new leader's motivation? It can vary, but one type of rebel, of which Fnuk would be one, could naturally take the "build an army" approach as the next step. When Fnuk runs out of local warriors, he would naturally then go seeking other towns to conquer or win over to his cause. When Fnuk has an army, he gets another new motivation, and so the chain continues. Intentional stories would essentially be constructed by having certain motivations and character traits be much higher probability in certain characters than in randomly-generated characters.

In short, these "motivation chains" would create the pre-designed stories, but other storylines would be able to form through emergent behaviour, arising from interactions between motivations.


As for a simpler suggestion regarding town features, I'd like to see towns established on special grounds - for instance, one town could be located at a special point of convergence of magical power, causing a higher than usual PP regeneration rate, easier learning of spells, and a preponderance of wizards and other scholarly NPCs. Another could be built on an ancient burial ground, and see ghosts rise each darknight, only for them to disappear in 24 hours (which could then motivate a quest to in some way calm the spirits and free the town from their curse - could be done, for instance, by blessing four different wells in the town with holy water).

Another kind of special ground could be that the area carries abnormal corruption issues. The residents of such a town would likely be suffering from the effects of this corruption, and it could even impact the town's structure. Another town could be generated with a gold mine beneath it - accessed by digging where the elder tells you to after accepting his quest. The elder might offer 50&#37; of the gold you find down there... try to take off with it all, and the townspeople will be pissed off (and it would, amongst other things, be an unlawful act, and may even curse you).

Towns could even be found on sea locations, as floating towns, with wooden "bridge" paths between wooden houses, and water everywhere else. In such a case, the water could, for instance, be unusually aerated, allowing anyone to breathe in it (but still cause water damage, etc)... with a "sea floor" dungeon that could hold treasure beneath the floating town.

There's lots of ideas I could come up with for this.

CloudKing
11-24-2011, 11:33 PM
@cass,
I like the ideas of nomad towns, in town cemetery(really like this one)(had similar idea(randomly generated graveyards in dungeons, and on world map)), and of finding attacked towns and helping survivors and such. keep them flowing, I have fun thinking about what JADE could be.

@Aielyn,
your "motivations" infrastructure, to me sounds like a good idea, my only crit. would be that it is fundamentally different from the story arc infrastructure that TB plans to implement....."you can't have two number ones, that would make eleven":) on a different note, gold mines,(maybe even gem mines?),yes, I'll go get my pickaxe.

CloudKing
11-24-2011, 11:43 PM
ok, some more ideas, this time some random dungeon features.


MULTI-LEVEL VAULTS:
a vault wherein which the downstair is generated in a
special room located in the vault itself. that downstair
would lead down to another level that would be a continuation
of the vault (might take up the entire level,or might not
depending on whether or not the vault ends on that level),
and could continue on for multiple levels. A sort of "super vault"

GRAVEYARDS:
special rooms (or maybe even entire levels) that would be
littered with graves.

LOST CITIZENS:
randomly generated workers,farmers,children,etc. that
would request to be escorted back to safety
"please sir I am lost and in need of your help"

MINING EXCURSIONS:
one might stumble upon a level that is riddled with dwarven
miners hard at work. (c)hatting with one could give a
special response such as "I don't get paid to sit around
and chat" or in the case of a dwarf "Well, what are you
waiting for? Grab your pick and lets get busy".I think these
would be very rare considering the amount of pickaxes they
would yield.

ADVENTURING PARTIES:
one might come across a party of adventurers working together.
it could be in classic combinations like; a thief, a wizard, and a fighter.
in rare cases they could be powerfull named heroes. and over
the course of time they might even move from level to level,
or from dungeon to dungeon, town to town, town to dungeon.(or at least
the named ones anyway.to expand on this, once generated they
might have an additional chance to have some effect on a story arc.
for example a powerful lawful party might be rumored to have
put an end to the reighn of a certain orc king. of course
these interactions would have to be limited so as not to take
away from the fame and glory awaiting the true hero of ancardia
"you of course".

any ideas?

Knyte
11-25-2011, 09:05 PM
i like the idea of the adventuring party...there's a ton of things that could be done with them...you could hear a rumor that they were defeated in a dungeon and that the only survivor is recovering in a random town, when you meet him he could give you a quest to avenge his fallen friends, maybe even asking to come along as a companion, or even hiring you to be His companion. they could give item hooks: "we've been seeking the sword of hellfire for the past few years. last we heard it was deep in a dungeon near here, but we haven't found it yet", or you hear a rumor that they've found it and you can track them down and steal or buy it from them. maybe they've heard of you in the same way and are tracking you down for an item you own, or they've been hired to kill you for slaughtering an entire village or to stop you from completing a quest. at any rate, it gives yet more of a chance of having friends, enemies, followers (since he's enabling armies, maybe we can gather enough adventurers and hirelings to form a mercenary company or an army of our own too). there's really too many ideas to list, but i'm sure you get my drift :)

dallonj
11-29-2011, 02:09 AM
i had an idea for a relatively easy and common quest you could do. shop keepers or whoever else you sell goods to could request more of a certain uncommon item you sell to them

you sell the herb (or whatever). shopkeeper says, "this is something that is very hard to come by in these parts, if you can bring back 20 more of these i will give you a 5000 gold pieces tab here at my shop" an alternative could be if a citizen was in the shop he could make you the same offer, with a different reward.

another good quest, bringing back live animals, this would be a good way to encourage use of the music skill. i bet you could find someone in the public square of the city willing to pay top dollar for a live tamed wolf or bear.

CloudKing
11-30-2011, 06:32 AM
Dungeon of the Djinni Lord,

When generated the world map could have a very very small chance to generate the Dungeon of the Djinni Lord.A very deep and very dangerous dungeon.

some of its features could be:

a slightly higher chance of finding a ring of Djinni summon,
a lot of Djinn get generated,
and lastly, if you do manage to make it to the bottom you will be
greeted by the Djinni Lord.

if you have killed no Djinn and have made no wishes he will be friendly and grant you a wish.

if you have killed a Djinni or have been granted a wish before he will be hostile.

if you were granted a wish before the dungeon, he may still be friendly if you wished for: your freedom

CloudKing
11-30-2011, 07:12 AM
@Knyte

I like your ideas on the subject of adventuring parties and I think your right about there being "A ton" of things that could be done with them.

CloudKing
11-30-2011, 08:24 AM
ok, some more scrolls,

first, some not so useful scrolls that could have been scribed by a wizard that had a "chaotic" sense of humor. For the sake of this post we'll call him Kejo the wizard.(think Tywat Perr)

SCROLL OF KEJO'S PIT,
a pit opens up beneath you
SCROLL OF KEJO'S STONE,
a stone block hits your head
SCROLL OF KEJO'S FIRE,
you are engulfed by the roaring flames
SCROLL OF KEJO'S ARROW, ACID, WATER, etc..... (you get the point)
SCROLL OF KEJO'S NEW FRIENDS,
all NPC's in sight become hostile including companions and slaves
SCROLL OF KEJO'S FEAST,
all food in your inventory rots away
SCROLL OF KEJO'S FALSE WISH,
what do you wish for:
after you type in what you want and hit enter you get the message "your equipment suddenly feels heavier", but don't bother searching for the AoLS you asked for because the scroll will always give you an apple.
KEJO'S FAVORITE SCROLL,
you die.

I think these would be very rare but very funny and/or frustrating if read.
______________________________________

ok, now some useful scrolls,

SCROLL OF MUSIC,
same effect as playing a blessed instrument with music skill at 100.
NECROMANCERS SCROLL,
lets you choose a corpse in your inventory to be animated and turned into a slave.
SCROLL OF MAJOR CHARGING,(rare)
adds 1 (2 if blessed) charge to all wands in your inventory.
_________________________________________________

ok, now DIVINE SCROLLS,
scrolls that can only be read while standing on a co-aligned altar and while in good standing with your deity.

SCROLL OF DIVINE SIGHT,(rare)
allows PC to see through walls for 5D10 turns
SCROLL OF DIVINE FAMILIAR SUMMONING,(rare)
summons deity specific companion. for example Loth might give the PC a powerful spider.
SCROLL OF DIVINE ASSISTANCE,(rare)
all non co-aligned monsters in PC's sight get struck by a bolt of lightning
SCROLL OF DIVINE BLESSINGS,(very rare)
blesses all equipped items. (has a chance to curse all equipped items as punishment for asking so much)
SCROLL OF ALTAR JUMP,(very rare)
teleports the PC to another co-aligned altar of choice, as long as the PC has already stood on that altar.
SCROLL OF DIVINE GATE,(extremely rare)
teleports the PC to the deity's home realm.:)

CloudKing
12-03-2011, 12:53 AM
This is a question for gut, silfer, and all the other ancient members. You guys probably have played ADOM more than most. So I was wondering, (with your vast knowledge of the game) if any of you guys had any ideas as to features or content that you might like to see in JADE.

Cass
12-03-2011, 02:02 PM
I had some more ideas for town features. I'd like there to be a high chance (up to 100% ) of seeing these in the starting village, and variable chances in other kinds of towns:

An Adventurer's Guild or Shop: You need to become a member if it's a guild. They sell a few items, mainly maps, scrolls of mapping, healing potions and such. More rarely other magical items, but only the types that don't require a class/skill: potions, rings, amulets, cloaks, gauntlets, maybe scrolls. They also buy these items. Occasionally you can get a quest here, stuff like find a certain item, map part of the overland or a dungeon, send a message to someone in another town.

A carpenter and/or a bricklayer: these sell and buy basic crafting stuff such as nails, boards, stones. After an attack/destructive player/earthquake/etc. they come to repair the damage. In case of threatening armies, they might start building palisades or walls, etc. If they like you a lot, they might teach you a few things for a fee.

CloudKing
12-04-2011, 08:27 AM
@Cass
I like the idea of watching a "bricklayer" repair the wall I just tore down. or the other tasks you mentioned.
___________________________

SOME RANDOM NPC's FOR TOWNS,( Probably very rare to see one but would add flavor IMO)

A GARDENER/PLANTER,
might occasionally plant a tree in town,
on rare occasion might try and plant some herbs,
will gladly accept seeds,
if given enough seeds he will join you as a companion.

A NECROMANCER,(would only be found in chaotic towns)
might offer you gold in exchange for corpses,
might raise corpses as slaves if they are in his line of sight.

A WANDERING WIZARD,
might offer to recharge a wand for a fee,
might occasionally move to a different town,

A DRIFTER,
might occasionally move to a different town,
will gladly accept money like a beggar.

A SHOP THIEF,
would be funny to see someone else try to steal from a shop.

A HEALER, (would only be found in lawful towns)
might be found healing citizens after an attack,
might offer his services as a hireling and heal you in combat.
___________________________

Another town feature,

An Arena,
some towns could have a chance to generate their own arena,
the PC might be given a choice to either (f)ight or (s)pectate,
there might be a gladiator or two wandering around town,(until they die by your hand in the arena)
there could be lowered shop prices for the town champion.

I did not check to see if this (or something similar)has already been suggested (it is a fairly generic idea)
but I figured it was worth mentioning.

CloudKing
12-04-2011, 08:47 AM
ok some spells,

REACH,(cast on a (t)arget stack of items and they will magically jump into your pack. Range might start at 2 or 3 and then increase with spell level.)
THROWN DARKNESS,(a darkness spell you can cast at a distance.)
WATER BOLT,(i always wondered why only the enemy's had this in ADOM.)
WATER BALL,(just another ball spell, but again I thought this was something missing from ADOM.)

CloudKing
12-04-2011, 09:08 AM
Wildlife,
maybe you could come across some deer or something roaming around in the wilderness.(might be more common for rangers and give a better chance to leave corpses.)

CloudKing
12-04-2011, 09:19 AM
another race suggestion.

an Illithid,(google it)
would make a great mindcrafter.

Aielyn
12-04-2011, 01:58 PM
ok some spells,

REACH,(cast on a (t)arget stack of items and they will magically jump into your pack. Range might start at 2 or 3 and then increase with spell level.)
THROWN DARKNESS,(a darkness spell you can cast at a distance.)
WATER BOLT,(i always wondered why only the enemy's had this in ADOM.)
WATER BALL,(just another ball spell, but again I thought this was something missing from ADOM.)
Generally good, but we wouldn't want magic-users to be too overpowered.

REACH (alternatively named PULL) - I'd like it to work somewhat different, pulling objects towards you physically rather than just having them jump into your pack. Using on a heavy item like a log, when a foe is between you and the item, could be interesting. On the flipside, I could see risks - using on a pile of items might make them hard to catch if you don't have particularly high dexterity, and using on a heavy item could result in either knocking yourself out (if Dexterity is too low) or crushing yourself (if Strength is too low). Using on fragile items would have a high risk of problems.

Note the possibility of using this with an archer, shooting and REACHing heavy projectiles. On the flipside, if the foe manages to dodge it, you'd want to also dodge it, otherwise, you'll collect yourself.

THROWN DARKNESS - I like it, but it seems like it would be just a little too overpowered, unless it was *highly* limited in radius, or perhaps turned into a "ball" spell, and thus requiring a clear shot at the place you're trying to throw darkness at.

WATER BALL/BOLT - This has so many possible twists to make it interesting. For instance, how about Water Ball creating a temporary water source, so the water doesn't just disappear like fire or electricity would (and thus would likely also require the ability to swim, if not breathe water)? Meanwhile, they would be useful spells for farmers wanting to water crops.

Now for a few of my own:

ILLUMINATE - Basically can be used to turn a being into a walking light source. Main use would actually be to illuminate an otherwise-invisible foe, making them glow and thus be visible even through their source of invisibility. It would wear off, of course. Also note that this could be used by a magic-casting foe with see-invisible to make you (when otherwise invisible) visible to underlings, for instance.

PUSH - Use this spell to force a targeted creature backwards, unless they have some means to prevent it or lack substance to push. Other than providing you with a way to put distance between you and a foe, you could also fling one foe into another, or into a wall, door, trap, or encroaching liquid (like lava). A similar ability should be available to shield-users against foes in adjacent spaces without need of magic.

MEGA DRAIN - Named after the Pokemon move, since it still makes sense to someone who doesn't know Pokemon. Allows you to sap HP from a target. A few caveats: Using this spell corrupts and is an evil chaotic act. Using against undead, unlife, or infected beings (werecreatures, kobolds, slimes, etc) causes major problems depending on the target. Cannot be cast with HP (restricted to PP casting only, will fail if you lack sufficient PP).

STERILISE - Two uses for this spell: you can use it on a wound to prevent disease, or you can use it on anything that can reproduce or summon to prevent them from doing it... but it's a targeted spell, so you have to be able to see the target, and it's not much use against a large number of such beings.

CloudKing
12-12-2011, 11:32 PM
I was chasing a scared kobold through a dungeon when he ran into a room which had an up stair, got backed into a corner and I killed him. Which got me thinking. if that were a "real" dungeon, instead of running into the corner of the room (certain death) he more likely would have ran up the stairs and continued to flee. the same goes for monsters chasing the PC. in a "real" dungeon the Ogre pursuing you would not suddenly become "frozen" in place and stop chasing just because you went up some stairs. I imagine the Ogre is left standing there thinking "DAMN STAIRS!! MY ONLY WEAKNESS!!". So my idea is this..If the levels above and below the PC are left "running" then it might make for a more realistic scenario where in which monsters and other NPCs could move freely from level to level. companions would also benefit from this.

what do you think?

CloudKing
12-16-2011, 08:07 AM
a few more spell ideas,

*MIND SIGHT: cast on NPC to reveal everything in their line of sight for 2D10? turns
*BLOOM:cast on herbs to blossom(expensive in PP)
*HATE;cast on NPC to make all NPC's in sight hostile
*MAGIC WALL:create magic wall that lasts 3D2? turns
*CRUMPLE:all skeletons/gules in sight return to corpse form for 2D2? turns
*BLOOD GIFT:cast on npc to recieve damage on their behalf for 2D10? turns
*GATHER:ball spell that "gathers" (makes them jump into your pack) all items in adjacent squares.

CloudKing
12-16-2011, 08:27 AM
some weapon prefix suffix ideas,

Suffixes,

*of grasping: cannot be disarmed
*of Medusa: killing blow turns to stone
*of training: occasionally adds an extra weapon skill mark
*of devotion: gain peity on killing blow

Prefixes,

*necromantic: if a corpse is left it will be instantly raised as an undead (a goblin killed with this weapon will become a (hostile) goblin skeleton etc.)
*magebane: drains PP
*awkward: will not add to weapon skill marks when used
*very awkward: will subtract from weapon skill marks when used
*revealing: makes visible on successful blow

Moeba
12-16-2011, 11:11 AM
I like the awkward and very awkward, amongst others. I'd call it 'weird' instead of 'very awkward' though: a prefix with 'very' before it doesn't really work; it isn't classy, anyway. I mean, imagine getting a 'large iron very awkward battle axe' - pretty awkward, imo.

*of devotion: would need a more precise effect; piety for which deity? For killing any creeps, or just the ones of opposite alignment? But I don't think we can figure this out before JADE's alignment system is implemented.
*magebane: do you mean drains PP on strike, from the target struck? Or passive PP drain when wearing it?

CloudKing
12-16-2011, 08:35 PM
@ Moeba,
it was on strike from the target struck

Aielyn
12-17-2011, 03:31 PM
I was chasing a scared kobold through a dungeon when he ran into a room which had an up stair, got backed into a corner and I killed him. Which got me thinking. if that were a "real" dungeon, instead of running into the corner of the room (certain death) he more likely would have ran up the stairs and continued to flee. the same goes for monsters chasing the PC. in a "real" dungeon the Ogre pursuing you would not suddenly become "frozen" in place and stop chasing just because you went up some stairs. I imagine the Ogre is left standing there thinking "DAMN STAIRS!! MY ONLY WEAKNESS!!". So my idea is this..If the levels above and below the PC are left "running" then it might make for a more realistic scenario where in which monsters and other NPCs could move freely from level to level. companions would also benefit from this.

what do you think?
I like the idea of allowing some mechanism for NPCs using stairs without the PC also using them... but I think it would be a little bit overdone if levels were actively tracked. Instead, here's what I'd do - I'm pretty sure it's supposed to automatically update a level when you go to it anyway... so how about performing a calculation for the level you've just come from, determining how long it would take for an NPC to reach the stairs, and then having probabilities of moving level calculated from that information (with chance of moving level being higher the longer you spend on the next level). Then, if an NPC is determined to have used the stairs according to that probability, the game removes that NPC from the original level and puts it on the current level. Note that NPCs following the PC (whether tame or hostile) would have a much higher chance of using the stairs.

The opposing process, with the NPC travelling via stairs to another level, would be handled more simply, by including them when updating the level.


a few more spell ideas,

*MIND SIGHT: cast on NPC to reveal everything in their line of sight for 2D10? turns
*BLOOM:cast on herbs to blossom(expensive in PP)
*HATE;cast on NPC to make all NPC's in sight hostile
*MAGIC WALL:create magic wall that lasts 3D2? turns
*CRUMPLE:all skeletons/gules in sight return to corpse form for 2D2? turns
*BLOOD GIFT:cast on npc to recieve damage on their behalf for 2D10? turns
*GATHER:ball spell that "gathers" (makes them jump into your pack) all items in adjacent squares.
I'll admit, I'm not a fan of quite a few of these.

MIND SIGHT is somewhat weak in concept, although I get the idea - providing a new method of seeing a location. Some tweaking might make it good.
BLOOM is *far* too overpowered, even if expensive in PP. Perhaps a more subtle idea would be to have a spell that allows the caster to cause the target space to progress at 10x the normal speed for one normal turn duration. Such a spell would allow the user to cast on their own space, and thus gain 10 moves (or rather 9, since one move was the casting itself) in the normal time, so long as they remain stationary. Used on a target space containing herbs, the herbs would bloom more quickly (and corpses would rot 10x as quickly, too). It would, of course, be somewhat expensive in PP.
HATE - not clear on whether it causes hatred of PC or of target. If it works on a target, it's probably overpowered. If it works on the PC, I'm not sure it would be a worthy spell.
MAGIC WALL is one that I like. Effectiveness could increase duration, and the magical walls could even be impenetrable by some things that can normally pass through walls... but could perhaps be ineffective against, say, blind foes, unlife, or something like that.
CRUMPLE - so basically, a spell that, for a few turns, makes undead into corpses, etc, but undoes itself after that? Sounds really gimmicky.
BLOOD GIFT just sounds strange. Is it basically an "any attack on target uses PC's HP rather than target's HP" sort of deal?
GATHER, I have the same problem with as your idea for REACH - specifically, that it basically just lets you get all the items on the ground in the area, which would be overpowered if done in that way. What might be somewhat less overpowered would be if it gathers the items to the space under you, so long as a foe isn't standing on top of it at the time. This forces you to take the time to pick up the item (which can be difficult when faced with foes), and prevents you from just stealing items from underneath guardians, or from clearing the floor of a vault without fighting through the enemies in it.

For the weapon ego ideas you put forward in the next one, I'll incorporate my suggestions into the quote:

some weapon prefix suffix ideas,

Suffixes,

*of the firm grasp: cannot be disarmed
*of the gorgon: killing blow may petrify (not guaranteed)
*of experience: occasionally adds an extra weapon skill mark
*of devotion: may gain piety on killing blow (has negative effects if used by Lawful PC on Lawful NPCs or by Neutral PC on Neutral NPCs)

Prefixes,

*necromantic: if a corpse is left it will be instantly raised as an undead (a goblin killed with this weapon will become a (hostile) goblin skeleton etc.)
*magebane: drains PP of target
*abnormal: will not add to weapon skill marks when used
*bizarre: will subtract from weapon skill marks when used
*revealing: makes visible on successful blow
Some extra ideas:

*of consumption: increases satiation with every successful hit. Note that, with the reduced speed of change in satiation in JADE, this could cause major problems as the PC becomes well and truly bloated, potentially resulting in new complications (I'd like to see a level of satiation that results in death from overconsumption).
*of the beginner: weapon's stats vary depending on weapon skills of the user. Those with low weapon skills in the appropriate weapon see significant bonuses, while those who are experts see significant reduction.
*of the expert: the opposite of the previous one, but to a lesser degree.
*of the flash: failed attacks with this weapon cause the weapon to flash light in the target's eyes, sometimes blinding them. Doesn't work in darkness.

*skyward: a reference to the recent Zelda game in name, has the effect of being more effective against larger or flying foes, but less against smaller foes.
*tranquil: reduces damage, but may induce sleep in the target.
*hungry: autocursing. Will attack any adjacent NPC at random, separately from PC's attack. Very dangerous if equipped in a location with many friendly NPCs, also causes problems with shops.
*gem-encrusted: -5 damage, sells for a high price.
*rune-covered: does massive damage to creatures of magic.

dallonj
12-17-2011, 06:04 PM
those seemed like cool ideas. i dont think balance is as important as you are saying. Troll beastfighters were horribly overpowered in ADOM, it didn't ruin the game. I think its more important to focus on making it fun and crazy than balanced. I never complained to TB when my gnome mindcrafers couldnt make it past level 5

Aielyn
12-18-2011, 01:37 AM
those seemed like cool ideas. i dont think balance is as important as you are saying. Troll beastfighters were horribly overpowered in ADOM, it didn't ruin the game. I think its more important to focus on making it fun and crazy than balanced. I never complained to TB when my gnome mindcrafers couldnt make it past level 5
The balance of the game is important - it's not about making sure all characters are equal in difficulty, but is rather about making it so that things that are meant to be difficult are difficult.

Let me give you an example from ADoM - the spell Wish. If it had been established as a spell that just works by casting, and no other concerns arise, then it would have been *far* too overpowered, resulting in Wizards being able to basically cakewalk through the rest of the game with ease once they found it (especially since a spellbook of wish is guaranteed in the Library). Instead, TB implemented it with a heap of restrictions; the result is that being able to cast wish as many times as you want has become a kind of challenge of its own. And while having the spell does make it easier for the wizard, it's only very slightly so, and only very late in the game.

A well-balanced game is more fun. This doesn't mean balanced between characters, it means balanced for each character. And just upping the PP requirements isn't enough to balance out an overpowered spell.

Ssrrarr
01-14-2012, 10:16 AM
Alright

I don't know if merchant will be a class in JADE. Two of my most beloved characters were merchants and althought they are not easy to play they demand you to take good care of them and even have some cool quirks like the possibility of missiling off those doppelganger bastards with coins. Still, it can use some stuff to make it more friendly.

One thing I'd like to see for merchants is random deals with NPC's: Events a la "Will you spend some time with me?" happening into something like "Would you exchange that ITEM for ITEM/$?", probably even stats or skills when asking for very powerful stuff. Also NPC's randomly offering items for money would be nice. I don't know if it is easily doable, but putting merchants more into they lore by getting NPCs to recognize them as such feels like a good idea. Bandits and such could pay negative attention to merchant as well.

Merchants also need way better level rewards. Cancelling item destruction from attacks, traps and enviroment would be a poweful one for a merchant on a relatively advanced level, as a good merchant should know how to protect and keep their goods in shape through perilous trips. Automatic identification of Artifacts would also be a nice one, as they have gained knowledge of those mythical and highly valuable items through the legends and tales shared by those of their lore. Another item-oriented ones like reducing corruption from items or increase the generation of suffixed-preffixed items could be done, but I'm not that sure about them.

Those are just a couple of ideas regarding what I think merchants need a bit while not wanting them to get boosted too much, as they offer an intresting gameplay devoid of things like the extended carefree level rushing a wizard can scorch its way through or long happy tankings through the mazes.

CloudKing
05-19-2012, 12:54 AM
Missile weapons will be being added soon and I have a few ideas as to what I would like to see in ADOM II that was not in ADOM.
Shuriken,
throwing axes(not just axes that you throw but actual throwing axes e.g."throwing axe of returning"),
blowguns,
darts,
tinkers grenades,


I also think that thrown potions should be a weapon skill or maybe train thrown rocks and also recieve the bonus from the thrown rocks skill.

Aielyn
06-18-2012, 01:02 PM
Missile weapons will be being added soon and I have a few ideas as to what I would like to see in ADOM II that was not in ADOM.
Shuriken,
throwing axes(not just axes that you throw but actual throwing axes e.g."throwing axe of returning"),
blowguns,
darts,
tinkers grenades,


I also think that thrown potions should be a weapon skill or maybe train thrown rocks and also recieve the bonus from the thrown rocks skill.
How about having it so that both regular weapon and missile weapon skills have a category for "Strange" weapons? So, for instance, if you use a Large Ration as a weapon, it would train the Strange Weapon skill, while if you throw coins or potions, it trains the Strange Missile Weapon skill.

I'd also like to see some missile weapons that also have other normal uses. For instance, how about cutlery? Throwable weapon, and simultaneously useful for the Cooking skill. I'd also like to see magical gems have thrown effects - so, for instance, if you throw a Crystal of Fire, it explodes as though you just cast Improved Fireball.

A few other missile weapons that would be great for the simple fun of adding them - Waterbomb (it's really just a water balloon, but the splash would do damage to fire type monsters, etc), towel ("throw in the towel"), and rug ("throw rug"). The latter two wouldn't be of any real use, they'd just be for the humorous messages they'd generate. Try to Throw a towel, and it goes "Don't give up just yet...". Try to Throw a rug, and it goes "I think it would work better... over THERE."

Moeba
06-18-2012, 08:38 PM
How about having it so that both regular weapon and missile weapon skills have a category for "Strange" weapons? So, for instance, if you use a Large Ration as a weapon, it would train the Strange Weapon skill, while if you throw coins or potions, it trains the Strange Missile Weapon skill.

I don't think there really is a skill for 'strange' weapons in general, especially because there are so many different strange weapons. A more logical approach in my view would be to count your average melee weapon skill (not the marks, but the level!) as the 'strange weapon skill' and your average throwing weapon skill as the 'strange missile weapon skill'. That is assuming there will be no 'strange' weapons to be shot (guns, for instance; or (small) catapults).
That using 'strange' weapons would increase the weapon skill is also possible, but then the strange weapon skill should give less bonuses than a regular weapon skill imo.