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phauli
06-17-2009, 03:21 PM
One thing that sprung in my mind today: empty bottles!
Similar to my suggestion for ADOM to make torches it would be nice to "make" potions of water by ie. standing next to/in a river and using an empty bottle or to make it a bit more rarer using a bottle while standing on something like the water trap in ADOM.
With empty bottles it would also add one to a requirement to use alchemy. This would severely limit the use of offensive alchemy to a time where u actually have bottles with you.
Also if you use holy water to bless any other potion you would end up with an empty bottle same as when you gulp down a potion or poison your weapon the bottle where the liquid in question was before consuming doesent just vanish in the thin air.
Also something to note is that while potions are likely to get destroyed by extreme heat empty bottles would be more likely to be destroyed by falling in to a pit, a shockwave type of attacks and things like that.

Fullmoon
06-17-2009, 07:28 PM
Ah, this is one long wanted and often proposed idea. Second this.

Laukku
06-17-2009, 07:31 PM
Also if you use holy water to bless any other potion you would end up with an empty bottle same as when you gulp down a potion or poison your weapon the bottle where the liquid in question was before consuming doesent just vanish in the thin air.

Overpowered.

Maxumi
06-18-2009, 10:05 AM
First plz excuse my poor English.

It's a good idea.

Throwing empty bottles into river and you'll get potions of water. (If you are unlucky, the bottle may shatter to pieces...)

Uh...What happens if I put fluff balls into empty bottle ;)

To Laukku:
Why it is overpowered?

Conundrum
06-18-2009, 10:13 AM
Because, in ADOM at least, that would give you a virtually unlimited supply of Holy Water (seeing how easy it is to get your piety high enough to bless the water for free at an altar).

Of course, we can't go around assuming everything from ADOM is staying intact in JADE, and I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find a workaround to prevent abuse..

Maxumi
06-18-2009, 10:45 AM
Because, in ADOM at least, that would give you a virtually unlimited supply of Holy Water (seeing how easy it is to get your piety high enough to bless the water for free at an altar).

Of course, we can't go around assuming everything from ADOM is staying intact in JADE, and I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find a workaround to prevent abuse..

Thx for the explanation.

Maybe you can recieve some minor potions from the god instead of holy water.

What about potions of boost healing rate(mana regen rate)?

*STOP BOTHERING ME WITH WATER, MORTAL!*
The heap of 17 potions of water shattered to pieces.

Silfir
06-18-2009, 01:22 PM
Make every potion of water blessed reduce piety by a significant amount and balance is not a problem anymore. Like the idea.

phauli
06-18-2009, 02:57 PM
Another workaround could be that the water could only be harvested at some places like some kind of fountains or maybe a some kind of a room effect like "water is dripping form a crack in the sealing" or something like that. This is off course if JADE will have things like the ADOM room effects but yall get the point. :)

EDIT: Or one would be that water gathered from rivers etc. would be dirty, unholy, infected, etc. And if you get water from a river you could slip and drop to the river and get your scrolls and book ruined, metal equipment rusted or even your smaller items like rings and the like washed away with the current, but that's probably a bit too extreme..

Epythic
06-18-2009, 09:46 PM
EDIT: Or one would be that water gathered from rivers etc. would be dirty, unholy, infected, etc. And if you get water from a river you could slip and drop to the river and get your scrolls and book ruined, metal equipment rusted or even your smaller items like rings and the like washed away with the current, but that's probably a bit too extreme..

No, because you could just drop your stuff before you do it.

Think ice bridges.

vogonpoet
06-19-2009, 07:20 AM
Holy water is already extremely powerful. I think all the work you put into balancing bottles for water creation to not be overpowered is by definition going to end up making handling potions such a pain in the ass that you won't bother using them at all. Otherwise it will still be overpowered :)

Maybe the incredibly rare and powerful artifact "lidless bottle of nothing", only available to powerful JADE palladins/priests upon completion of some much greater emperor lich vault, would work - it would have to be carried in the tool slot in order to carry water, and the sheer power of the bottle is overcome by the fact that your PC is already incredibly powerful when (s)he gets it - much like the TotRR :)

RndmNumGenerator
06-20-2009, 05:06 PM
I love this idea personally, I think it's great. As far as being overpowered goes, I see three ways to balance it:

1) Each time a deity blesses water, it consumes a significant amount of piety. Piety cost would be lessened for Paladins, Priests, or any other holy classes Thomas decided to add into JADE. As it stands, these classes lack any special features. Paladins are a good spellcaster/melee hybrid, but lack that special thing all other classes have, and Priests... start with Detect Item Status. Wohooo...

2) Water collected from rivers or traps must be purified/distilled/cleansed in some way before it can be blessed. I don't care how much your deity loves you, I doubt he will bless muddy water.

3) Add a new system for blessing objects. In fact, there could be a completely new blessing system, were any item can be blessed by a deity, assuming you you sufficient piety. Then Holy Water would be less important, and would function only as a portable, altar-less blessing device.

phauli
06-23-2009, 03:08 AM
2) Water collected from rivers or traps must be purified/distilled/cleansed in some way before it can be blessed. I don't care how much your deity loves you, I doubt he will bless muddy water.


Cooking sets sprung in my mind :)

Sian
06-23-2009, 02:15 PM
cooking water ... with the same chance as cooking corpses to screw up and not managing to gather the distilled water, together with a piety cut for each potion of water to be blessed (even higher cut if its unholy which it could very well be, if your ... some skill (maybe cooking again) aren't high enough) :p

Moeba
06-23-2009, 03:31 PM
I like it :) But dropping potions of water on altars shouldn't cost too much piety, you can dip all potions of water in one potion of holy water instead too. It will give you some empty bottles which would have been potions of holy water with the other tactic, but you can fill those with water anytime.
Also, if survival would exist in Jade and have the same effects as in ADOM, maybe a good idea would be to give a chance on 'unmuddy' water depending on survival skill, to make it somewhat better (and to keep cooking away from imbaness :P)

But, what happens if you fill a bottle with water from a pool? :rolleyes:

Laukku
06-23-2009, 05:26 PM
But, what happens if you fill a bottle with water from a pool? :rolleyes:

Potion of Wonder? Random potion?

Fullmoon
06-24-2009, 01:35 PM
I like it :) But dropping potions of water on altars shouldn't cost too much piety, you can dip all potions of water in one potion of holy water instead too.
No. That would be definitely too overpowered.


It will give you some empty bottles which would have been potions of holy water with the other tactic, but you can fill those with water anytime.

Why not just create special action for draining a bottle?



Also, if survival would exist in Jade and have the same effects as in ADOM, maybe a good idea would be to give a chance on 'unmuddy' water depending on survival skill, to make it somewhat better (and to keep cooking away from imbaness :P)

Huh. This one is good thought. Always thought that Survival and Food Preservation should be combined and improved.



But, what happens if you fill a bottle with water from a pool? :rolleyes:
Hm. I'd prefer just random potion. And this should drain pool faster than drinking from it. And again, you might get spilled liquid from pool on your hands.

Uh. Sorry for my bad english. I'm quite in hurry.

Conundrum
06-24-2009, 02:23 PM
The current method of turning 4 uncursed water + 1 holy water into 2 holy water would stay though I would think. But turning a stack of water into holy water with one holy water is definitely overpowered.

Moeba
06-25-2009, 10:10 AM
I didn't mean the dropping potions of water in one potion of holy water as a suggestion; it already exists in ADOM that you can dip uncursed water in holy water. The potion of holy water will disappear, so with this feature it would become an empty bottle, and 5 potions of water is the max you can dip in the holy water. It works just like blessing any item, and the max stack that can be blessed at once is 5 for water.
That gives you 4 potions of holy water, so if you can bless one potion of water, you can make all your empty bottles potions of holy water when a source of water is near. And then you can keep one potion of holy water to bless any new water you would need.
So making blessing water cost a lot of piety doesn't help, unless you make it cost a HUGE lot of piety. That was what I meant.

Actually this was for some time my method to get a lot of holy water, because I didn't know your god would bless them for you when dropping it on an altar.

Sradac
06-25-2009, 07:03 PM
ToME has this and its not OP. There are fountains all over the dungeons, most are either dried up or just water, but sometimes you find a magical one that you can fill up potions of heroism, or light heal, or whatever. Sometimes its a poisoned fountain too. and you never know what it is till you try it yourself.