Changes not in the changelog? (buffed bosses?)

[sylph]

Hi,
Just posting here after quite a few frustrating experiences in the latest version of ADOM (really enjoying the graphics and music, btw).

I'm just wondering whether a lot of buffs were applied to certain bosses? I've read the change to the master summoner somewhere, but I recently had a character die to Nuurag who I seriously thought wouldn't have much trouble with him.
Shrugging my shoulders and starting afresh, I finally (for the first time in 1.2) had a character that found a means to cross the lake before she reached the eternal guardian, so I went for it (level 17, lucky+fate smiles, 300hp, massive stack of herbs, big punch(blessed), 25PV), and died to the skeletal king while using blessed spenseweed. He knocked me from 120 to dead in a single turn. I was shocked at this, and can't help but feel that he's been *massively* buffed. I get that he summons undead now, but I was fighting him in the corridoor, un-surrounded, and I've literally never had a character even lose 100hp against him, never mind losing it all in a single turn!

If he is buffed, I'd be really grateful if someone could give me a list of bosses that were stealth-buffed in the latest version. Failing that, I'll have to do a full savescummed playthrough just to stop these 'surprise-you're dead' moments, because they're kinda stifling my enjoyment of the new version.
If, on the other hand, he hasn't been buffed (nor nuurag, for that matter), then I guess I'm just ridiculously unlucky in 1.2, because so far I' haven't managed a single win, and every death has either been disaster in dwarftown (blot out the sun and unholy aura caused a few), or previously mediocre enemies killing me in a single turn, and it's more annoying that berferking was...

[JellySlayer]

The only boss that I know of that has received a significant buff to their stats is the Ancient Stone Beast. A few other bosses have received extra abilities or resistances to various disablers.

The skeletal king can, occasionally do fairly massive damage though. I've seen him knock off 150-200 HP in 1 turn before--in 1.1.1. He gets a few attacks per turn, so if he happens to get a couple of stacked critical hits, he can put you in a world of hurt. Same is true of many high level monsters.

[grobblewobble]

Yeah, I think that was just bad luck.

When the skeletal king blind rages he can do especially massive damage. If anything, he should be a little bit less dangerous now because blind raging has been nerfed a little. (But it wasn't a very big nerf from what I've seen.)

[sylph]

Ah, thought that might have been the case. Just wanted to make sure though, I guess It's simply a combination of very poor luck, trying to keep my turns below 50,000, and playing female human fighters (AWFUL). Thanks for the pointers!

[Stingray1]

I've found that all the bosses have been buffed. All has more HP, extra immunies/resistances, extra types of attacks and hit a bit harder.

So yeah, find ways to kill them without dying. Or play a CK. :)

P.S. Also some non-boss monsters have been buffed. Take care.

[sylph]

I've found that all the bosses have been buffed. All has more HP, extra immunies/resistances, extra types of attacks and hit a bit harder.

This seemed to be the general case for me. Not ALL though - griff and nonnak seem pretty much the same as always, keethrax and the ACW (aside from the new darkness and whatnot) are much the same.


Oh, I just remembered another promising character death from the new bosses! The new eternal guardian seems to gain speed, which he never did before. To a point where once enough EGs have been summoned, his speed is too high to teleport to the downstairs. I had to slip past one, then another on my way through a second time. Third time through, though, he reappeared before I had a chance to reach the stairs, and this remained the case, blocking my character completely out of the game (I ultimately suicided trying to fight spawned EGs, which seem pretty much impossible to kill without plentiful slaying nowadays).

[JellySlayer]

Alarm traps are known to help with eternal guardians...

[Stingray1]

My apologies, I meant to link this in my first post then, but got involved in other affairs.

Here (http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1237) is the relevant Changelog item.

Edit - You, sylph, posted in the RFE?

[sylph]

Ah yes, missed it in the changelog because I was searching for stuff about the skeletal king, not 'bosses' in general. Thanks for that link!
And yes, I did post in that RFE. I found it ridiculous that someone proposed a massively sweeping change, the community voted against it, but then it was instigated anyway.
Plus, that RFE has nothing to do with the boss buffs that I've observed. The admin post on there DOES, but the RFE is taking about swap priority, confusion, andorD, and meat shielding, none of which account for a skeletal king destroying a well-equipped level 17PC in 1v1 melee...


Still, my post was more specific. I know 'some bosses' were buffed. I was seeking information on which bosses they were, ideally with notes on how they were buffed on top of that. At the very least, I'd enjoy a list of which pieces of adom information I should be bleaching out of my brain, because playing with knowledge and experience shouldn't be THIS much of a disadvantage.

[grobblewobble]

Yes, it would be good to start on a list like that. Would be very handy.

I do know the skeletal king is very bad at shrugging spells, offensive wands work very well.

[Stingray1]

Why should there be a list. If you play adom, you know how a keyboard works, make your own list. The fun part of playing Ancient Domains of Mystery is figuring these things out yourself. Not having your hand held all the way.

P.S. You'll remember details better if you find them out yourself and type them out yourself.

P.P.S. @ sylph, isn't this exciting? Playing an all new improved ADOM, not sure what to expect.

[sylph]

No stingray, it's not. There's a massive difference between dying discovering something new, and dying because something was secretly changed. I really don't mind the whole 'oh, what's this new item? I'll try equipping it... OHMYGODDEAD!'. What I don't enjoy is 'Oh, I know this item, I'll just rub it on my skin to heal me... OHMYGODDEAD!'. Experience in ADOM shouldn't be this harsh a punishment, in my book. I wouldn't mind being unsure what to expect. What I don't like is knowing what to expect, and having it modified so heavily, it results in character death.

This is an extreme, exaggerated example, of course, but it *is* getting a little tiring for me now, because I haven't lost a single character to new content, I've lost them to stealth changes. That doesn't feel 'exciting and new'. It just feels like 'Fuck you'. :)

ps. Don't get me wrong, loving the new version for all other reasons.

[Stingray1]

I'm sorry to hear about your character's death. At least its death taught you that the game has changed somewhat. So, be vigilant and have fun exploring the changed ADOM.

I also lost many characters to the changes, now I'm experienced in the regard and lose hardly any.:)

[sylph]

Hmm, you've poured through the RFEs quite extensively, I doubt you *fully* understand the perspective I'm trying to represent, but cheers for the well-wishes anyway! Interested to hear about all the characters you lost - how did it happen?

[Stingray1]

Sure, maybe I was a bit prepared. My 1st character to fight the new ACW was killed by it. I had a very hard fight against the new Skeletal King too, was forced in the left side of the lvl, being hit numerous times by summons and it. I managed to escape victorious though, but was almost killed. Keriax with its new unexpected immunities made one of my ultra candidates perish. One was killed by the Water Dragon after picking up an item while in darkness. Pardon the delay scanning my highscores, that seems to be the most notable ones.

e. the typos

[_Ln_]

Haha, soon I will become the author of the most hated RFE :D

On a note related to OP, I haven't noticed anything extraordinary about the skeletal king except the fact that he summons now (I don't think he did this in 1.1.1). Moreover, I've once died with a promising char to the guy in 1.1.1, so the situation you've posted is quite possible, IMHO.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

It's a new version of the game, so every item and boss that you encounter can potentially be "new". It's also a prerelease, not a polished version, so it's definitely possible that some things are unbalanced. If you want stability and the certainty that your knowledge and experience of the game will last, maybe you should keep playing 1.1.1 until the final 1.2.0 comes out.

Anyway, I think the knowledge and experience of 1.1.1 *do* help a lot when playing prereleases. I was very surprised when I found out that the ACW was now immune to something (I don't remember if it was paralysis?) But in my ADOM experience, I had learned that you have to be very prepared and have backup plans when you fight the ACW... damn, you have to be very prepared and have backup plans when you think pretty much anything remotely dangerous. So I didn't die to the ACW that time, I just used other resources and emerged victorious.

About the skeletal king, I have always tried to stay out of melee range from him, even in 1.1.1. I don't know if he could do 120 damage before, but I do know he hit hard. So he hasn't killed me in the prereleases because I respect him.

I guess the trick is not trusting very specific features of the game (such as "paralyze the ACW, it always works") which may change from version to version, but using your experience of general principles ("disable the strong bosses", "fear the bosses and don't be low on HP near them", etc.)

I have won more characters in the prereleases that in 1.1.1, and I have played much less.

[anon123]

On a note related to OP, I haven't noticed anything extraordinary about the skeletal king except the fact that he summons now (I don't think he did this in 1.1.1).

He didn't, at least not if you didn't lure him off the level. This can get annoying with melee PCs, as he swarms you with skeletal warriors faster than you can get close to him and dish damage out. I didn't notice him being significantly tougher otherwise.


Anyway, I think the knowledge and experience of 1.1.1 *do* help a lot when playing prereleases. I was very surprised when I found out that the ACW was now immune to something (I don't remember if it was paralysis?)

Same here. I zapped a wand of paralyzation and it did absolutely nothing. Neither did a thrown potion of blindness. Then I remembered about the new boss immunities. I ended up berserking the guy in semi-frustration, acquiring a couple of corruptions in the process :rolleyes:

The SFB is immune to blindness now, but it remains vulnerable to potions of cure poison, which I used to great delight.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

The SFB is immune to blindness now, but it remains vulnerable to potions of cure poison, which I used to great delight.
You mean cure corruption? If you mean cure poison, I have just learn something new.

[gym21]

Potions of cure poison badly stun any creature which poisons. Definitely works on the SFB.

[anon123]

Potions of cure poison badly stun any creature which poisons. Definitely works on the SFB.

What he said :)

[BenMathiesen]

Potions of cure poison badly stun any creature which poisons. Definitely works on the SFB.

:eek:

Been playing since '92 or so, never heard of that before!

[gym21]

One might assume that it's especially useful for knocking off quickling royalty because thrown potions don't miss, but I haven't found any quickling kings or queens in my last few games to test on.

[Stingray1]

I have a scared queen will see if I can track her down and return result.

e. Sorry dudes, monster detection doesn't reveal her, she must have died somehow. Diving from wilderness to D:42 for nothing.:(

[sylph]

Just to note - it's REALLY strong confusion too. Easily strong enough to kill the SFB with non-slaying missiles before it recovers.

[anon123]

I have a scared queen will see if I can track her down and return result.

e. Sorry dudes, monster detection doesn't reveal her, she must have died somehow. Diving from wilderness to D:42 for nothing.:(

Then try it against Keriax next time you face him. :D

[GordonOverkill]

If you want to test it, there is a living quickling queen on one deeper CoC level of our Roman Republic character Drake. Don't exactly remember the level, but I have recorded my turns, so I can take a look when the video is uploaded.

[Stingray1]

Then try it against Keriax next time you face him. :D

Done and dusted, I wanted to keep that a secret.:p

[gut]

to op, the old code for 1.1.1 skeletal king says his melee is this:

3x 3d10+8


so if that is true, he either had to be blind raging or getting crits

[aerol]

May I direct you to this thread (http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread.php/12326-Collected-post-p5-prerelease-spoilers).