Potions of water creation?

[cobaltofdoom]

I seem to recall many an age ago where you could go swimming in a lake with lots of pointless potions and there was
a chance that they would get diluted and turned to "water"

Am I dreaming? Does it still happen (if it ever did) ?

[cobaltofdoom]

I'm guessing that that means its a big noooo on making potions of water?

[JellySlayer]

No, this does not happen in any version AFAIK.

[Greyling]

I'm not aware of it happening to me or anyone else during the 14 years I have been playing. You should probably wait for confirmation from someone more experienced than me before you consider the issue resolved, though.

[anon123]

Are you sure you aren't mixing NetHack and ADOM up? :)

[cobaltofdoom]

I may have dreamt the whole thing up.

[Greyling]

I may have dreamt the whole thing up.

Anyway, it seems like if the vessels that contained the potions were sealed tightly enough to keep the potion from leaking out, they would also be sealed tightly enough to keep water from leaking in.

[anon123]

Not to mention the flask itself instantly and fully bio-degrades upon drinking its contents, preventing the PC from littering Ancardia or refilling them with water. Good design :)

[gosos]

there are other roguelikes where you can do this such as powder, wazhack, possibly nethack (cant remember). looks like you mixed it up. getting water potions that easy in adom might be a bit overpowering. would be rather easy to bless damn near everything...

[TheCableGuy]

Anyway, it seems like if the vessels that contained the potions were sealed tightly enough to keep the potion from leaking out, they would also be sealed tightly enough to keep water from leaking in.

Odd that doesn't stop Poison contamination.

[Stingray1]

Who ever said the potion was in a container. The only way it can be is both a liquid and a solid at the same time.

If you dip, drink, mix, handle it it is in liquid form. If you throw, kick, expose it to an element it is a sort of crystal. When it hits a monster it shatters and turns into a liquid.

[Greyling]

Not to mention the flask itself instantly and fully bio-degrades upon drinking its contents, preventing the PC from littering Ancardia or refilling them with water. Good design :)

Okay anon, you brought this on yourself.

You really want to know how I think potions of water should function? I think empty flasks should be generated after drinking potions, and it should be possible to refill with liquid from sources such as lakes, underground rivers, and even pools.

Once you acquired a flask full of water, it should be possible to convert it to holy water by placing it on a co-aligned altar, just like now, except the process would require piety. The limiting factor for generating holy water should be divine favor, not a shortage of water (what does your character drink, if it's so rare, anyway?). There would be no imbalance created from this system if the piety cost was correctly adjusted (I'm directing this at you, Silfir).

Like I said, You could also fill the left over flasks from pools. Instead of having random effects generated every time you drank from a pool, most of them would essentially be "unidentified" until you took a sip out of them for first time, and then after that they would be identified. These identified pools would have a preset, limited number of uses, just like now, and each use could be utilized to either sip from the pool or fill a flask with its contents.

There would still be some pools that had effects which changed every time the PC drank from them, perhaps referred to as "mercurial pools" or some such. Their colors would visibly cycle, letting you know that their effects were variable. Even if you had drunk from one of these pools already, you would get a random unidentified potion each time you filled a flask with their liquid.

A much weirder mechanic related to this is the idea of using scrolls of identify on non-possessions, like pools, enemies (this would give you detailed monster-memory information), or even rooms. But that's a different subject for another topic.

[Greyling]

Odd that doesn't stop Poison contamination.

I assume you are talking about the poison hands corruption? The PC has to open the flask at some point to drink from it, and his hands are dripping copious amounts of poison, judging from the description. I agree that you could argue that perhaps contamination should only occur a certain percentage of the time, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that it could take place.

[TheCableGuy]

I assume you are talking about the poison hands corruption? The PC has to open the flask at some point to drink from it, and his hands are dripping copious amounts of poison, judging from the description. I agree that you could argue that perhaps contamination should only occur a certain percentage of the time, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that it could take place.

One could reasonably conclude that, if it weren't for the fact that JUST PICKING IT UP also contaminates it.
Who'd open a Vial when picking up a potion.
I mean, I'd understand if Poison-hands was a Curse or a form of Magic but the game doesn't imply that.

[Greyling]

One could reasonably conclude that, if it weren't for the fact that JUST PICKING IT UP also contaminates it.
Who'd open a Vial when picking up a potion.
I mean, I'd understand if Poison-hands was a Curse or a form of Magic but the game doesn't imply that.

That's true.

Start an RFE to change when/how the effect is applied. I'd vote for it, no kidding.

[Silfir]

... Corruption isn't magical enough for you?

[TheCableGuy]

... Corruption isn't magical enough for you?

The Corruption may be Magic but the Effects are Tangible manifestations.
The Effect of the Corruption is to cause your hands to drip Poison,
not "Whatever you touch becomes poisoned."

Magic is very Literal in that regard.

[Greyling]

... Corruption isn't magical enough for you?

The effect of the corruption should match the description. That's all we're saying, Silfir. It's not called "cursed hands". Are we going to start justifying all irrational behavior in fantasy games by saying "it's magic"?

By the way, I'm extremely disappointed that you didn't object to my suggestions about water manipulation and pool mechanics. I think you may be slipping, Silfir.

[anon123]

Okay anon, you brought this on yourself.

*snip*

Hahaha :D

The ability to empty flasks and fill them with water has already been RFE'd, and I actually voted against it, because while it makes complete sense from a realism point of view, potions are a one-use item due to game balance reasons. Your suggestion (allowing it, but making blessing burn piety) is interesting, but I'm afraid it would complicate gameplay too much for little gain. The game and the player would both have to keep track of "real" potions of water vs. the ones made by the PC. And how do you justify your god blessing randomly dropped water for free, but placing a fee on the others? Too much to change just for some realism, I'd think.

The pool thingy could work with some modifications, however. If you 'U'se a potion while standing on a pool, the game could ask if you want to discard the liquid and fill it with pool water instead. This would turn the potion into a different one. There could be a chance of the PC slipping as it can already happen when you drink from the pool, losing the flask, or just have the pool dry up, so that this can't be abused until you've turned everything into PoCCs, water or potions of education. I'd RFE that, it could be very fun!

PS: TheCableGuy has a point. The first time I saw poison hands turn potions into poison, I thought "how come?", reasoned "the glass must be thin enough that poison just passes through or something", and went on my merry way ;)

[Greyling]

Your suggestion (allowing it, but making blessing burn piety) is interesting, but I'm afraid it would complicate gameplay too much for little gain.

Anon, what suggestion have I ever made that would not complicate gameplay for little gain?


The game and the player would both have to keep track of "real" potions of water vs. the ones made by the PC.

I'm not sure what you are saying or why that would be necessary. Potions of water would be potions of water, regardless of their source. Of course, they could still be B/U/C, but I don't think that's what you were talking about there.


And how do you justify your god blessing randomly dropped water for free, but placing a fee on the others?.

What? They wouldn't bless them for free. That's the point. What others are you talking about?

Oh, that brings up a another related idea, though. It seems like it would be rational to allow all items to be blessed directly, perhaps by dropping them on an altar and praying. The piety cost of blessing would be proportional to the desirability of the item in this system.

So, I think I may have imagined that there would be little use for holy water itself when I was originally brain storming about this. It might still be a useful as a weapon against undead, but if you could just bless items directly, there might not be a big need for it.

[anon123]

I'm not sure what you are saying or why that would be necessary. Potions of water would be potions of water, regardless of their source. Of course, they could still be B/U/C, but I don't think that's what you were talking about there.


What? They wouldn't bless them for free. That's the point. What others are you talking about?

"Once you acquired a flask full of water, it should be possible to convert it to holy water by placing it on a co-aligned altar, just like now, except the process would require piety."

I understand this as meaning that blessing refilled potions of water would cost piety in this hypothetical scenario. Please correct me if that's wrong.

[Greyling]

"Once you acquired a flask full of water, it should be possible to convert it to holy water by placing it on a co-aligned altar, just like now, except the process would require piety."

I understand this as meaning that blessing refilled potions of water would cost piety in this hypothetical scenario. Please correct me if that's wrong.

You are correct.

But I guess I don't understand what you were saying before.

[JellySlayer]

You are correct.

But I guess I don't understand what you were saying before.

I think the difference that he is getting at is this:
Currently, if a goblin drops a potion of water, your deity will bless it for free. From what you are saying in the quote above, it sounds like you are saying that this would remain in place, but that if you use/refill that water, on subsequent uses this would require piety. I'm assuming that you actually want a system where blessing all waters would require piety.

I don't mind the idea, except that I wouldn't want blessing water to automatic anymore in that case. I don't know what mechanism would be appropriate (prayers?), but just using piety by dropping unIDed potions on an altar is not a good way of doing it, IMHO. Could lead to nasty surprises if you don't realise what's going on and desperately need a prayer later.

[Greyling]

I think the difference that he is getting at is this: I'm assuming that you actually want a system where blessing all waters would require piety.

Yeah, you are right. Every blessing would cost piety. I'm not sure where he got the idea that the first blessing would be free.


I don't mind the idea, except that I wouldn't want blessing water to automatic anymore in that case. I don't know what mechanism would be appropriate (prayers?), but just using piety by dropping unIDed potions on an altar is not a good way of doing it, IMHO. Could lead to nasty surprises if you don't realise what's going on and desperately need a prayer later.

No, I think you are right. I considered stipulating that prayer would be required for the blessing, but I figured my idea was already complicated enough as it was.

I personally think you should be able to submit specific prayer requests to your god, rather than them making their best guess as to what you want. So, if you prayed for "blessing", the god would ask you to select a specific item.

And, this is really going to be controversial, but I don't think it would hurt to see piety levels numerically displayed, say, on the character sheet. If you think that is unrealistic, keep in mind that your character currently already has other completely abstract stats quantified in very specific ways. I don't see why your PC can exactly determine their mana level but not their level of closeness to a god, for instance.

Silfir really must be asleep or dead not to be objecting to these kind of ideas.

[JellySlayer]

What about, say, 'u'sing a holy symbol to bless your water?

For that matter, if you did want to have it that you could ask for specific prayer requests, maybe you could get that from a holy symbol as well for an extra piety cost, whereas the _ key is more of a "HELP ME!" type of request?

A holy symbol is guaranteed from Thrundarr, so, while rare otherwise, it wouldn't be terribly crippling. Another could be granted upon crowning.

[Stingray1]

Oi, there is no flask. It is a potion of water not a flask of water.

We can't go turning filthy, naturally occurring water into magical potions of water. Maybe with good knowledge in Alchemy, a Cooking set, the Cooking skill and a plain blanket.

[Silfir]

The Corruption may be Magic but the Effects are Tangible manifestations.
The Effect of the Corruption is to cause your hands to drip Poison,
not "Whatever you touch becomes poisoned."

Magic is very Literal in that regard.

We are talking about the poison hands that somehow seep through non-thick gauntlets and cause the stuff you touch to have a sickly green glow? Or, for that matter, make your weapon poisonous just by wielding, rather than requiring you to coat it in the poison in regular intervals?

I'm pretty literal on this myself.

[Silfir]

Yeah, you are right. Every blessing would cost piety. I'm not sure where he got the idea that the first blessing would be free.



No, I think you are right. I considered stipulating that prayer would be required for the blessing, but I figured my idea was already complicated enough as it was.

I personally think you should be able to submit specific prayer requests to your god, rather than them making their best guess as to what you want. So, if you prayed for "blessing", the god would ask you to select a specific item.

And, this is really going to be controversial, but I don't think it would hurt to see piety levels numerically displayed, say, on the character sheet. If you think that is unrealistic, keep in mind that your character currently already has other completely abstract stats quantified in very specific ways. I don't see why your PC can exactly determine their mana level but not their level of closeness to a god, for instance.

Silfir really must be asleep or dead not to be objecting to these kind of ideas.

Piety levels aren't displayed because your deity isn't a part of your character. It's supposed to be something your character has no clue about. Your Mana score, on the other hand, is a part of you - how well you are connected to the flow of Mana. Who's to say that if our world actually had magic, we wouldn't also be able to feel it? Like a tingle?

I'm not sure what you want to hear from me on the water thing. I haven't even read through your suggested implementation the first time around, mostly because refilling schemes for water have been suggested before and no one's been able to explain to me why the game needs it.

[grobblewobble]

By the way, it is already totally possible to turn useless potions into water. Turn them into PoRC, then dip those into each other on D:2.

The drawback of this method is that you also get potions of booze, potions of learning, potions of exchange and potions of gain attributes, unfortunately.

[anon123]

No, I think you are right. I considered stipulating that prayer would be required for the blessing, but I figured my idea was already complicated enough as it was.

I personally think you should be able to submit specific prayer requests to your god, rather than them making their best guess as to what you want. So, if you prayed for "blessing", the god would ask you to select a specific item.

Another reason praying to bless water wouldn't work (in my opinion, of course) is that piety costs for specific favors increase every time they're requested. So either the cost would be moderate, causing trouble for someone who blesses water regularly (and possibly forcing them to defer that until they have bigger stacks), or it'd need to burn very little piety to remain balanced, and in that case you might as well leave things as they're now. I'm guessing that's why blessing water is free in the first place.

Specific prayers were already suggested, but TB himself commented that's something for ADOM II.

[_Ln_]

I'm not sure what you want to hear from me on the water thing. I haven't even read through your suggested implementation the first time around, mostly because refilling schemes for water have been suggested before and no one's been able to explain to me why the game needs it.

Greyling is inviting you to participate in an act of flaming knowing you by reputation from arguing in various debates on the issue tracker. You know, with somewhat shy start when both opponents carefully express their rational thoughts on the matter, escalating to sarcastic comments designed to show mental superiority which excite more attention to carry on word exchange. Then the action reaches its intellectual climax with all participants throwing all their might into devising a serious of perfect arguments and undeniably genius digs at each other. In the end everyone calms down after depleting their supply of energy, but they are all in the state of joyful tranquility which allows them to wait (without going nuts) till another topic comes up to indulge in another session of shameful but pleasant activity. And this is how truth is made. Like Treasure Hunter being the best talent ever.

[Greyling]

Greyling is inviting you to participate in an act of flaming knowing you by reputation from arguing in various debates on the issue tracker. You know, with somewhat shy start when both opponents carefully express their rational thoughts on the matter, escalating to sarcastic comments designed to show mental superiority which excite more attention to carry on word exchange. Then the action reaches its intellectual climax with all participants throwing all their might into devising a serious of perfect arguments and undeniably genius digs at each other. In the end everyone calms down after depleting their supply of energy, but they are all in the state of joyful tranquility which allows them to wait (without going nuts) till another topic comes up to indulge in another session of shameful but pleasant activity. And this is how truth is made. Like Treasure Hunter being the best talent ever.

Dude, I think you've got me wrong there. I really do respect Silfir's opinion, and I have told him that before. Part of what I was saying was a joke (we obviously disagree on a lot of things), but Silfir also does a good job of pointing out potential flaws in my ideas. So, he helps make them better, the way I see it. I genuinely appreciate his input, which is another thing I have told him before.

It makes me really angry that you think I see myself as even potentially being "smarter" than him, or better than him in any other way. I think there is little doubt that he is the smarter one, and I certainly have never made any statement contrary to that.

I also hope that Silfir knows that if I say anything that offends him, all he has to do is say so and I will apologize and stop. But he seems like a pretty think skinned guy in general, so I don't think that's the problem. Also, if Grey, or any other moderator thinks that our discussion are disruptive or take away from the board, all they have to do is let me know and I'll end them.

[Greyling]

Silfir, I really do want to continue our discussion, but I also want confirmation that you realize I'm not making some sort of personal attack on you. Are we cool, or is this bothering you?

[anon123]

I think Ln was just making a joke about how extensive these discussions about the serious business that is ADOM can get. :o

[_Ln_]

Dude, I think you've got me wrong there. I really do respect Silfir's opinion, and I have told him that before. Part of what I was saying was a joke (we obviously disagree on a lot of things), but Silfir also does a good job of pointing out potential flaws in my ideas. So, he helps make them better, the way I see it. I genuinely appreciate his input, which is another thing I have told him before.

It makes me really angry that you think I see myself as even potentially being "smarter" than him, or better than him in any other way. I think there is little doubt that he is the smarter one, and I certainly have never made any statement contrary to that.

I also hope that Silfir knows that if I say anything that offends him, all he has to do is say so and I will apologize and stop. But he seems like a pretty think skinned guy in general, so I don't think that's the problem. Also, if Grey, or any other moderator thinks that our discussion are disruptive or take away from the board, all they have to do is let me know and I'll end them.

Damn, mental stability of an average ADOM community member is seriously insane. It's as if only Soirana knows how to flame properly.

In any case, what anon123 said.

[szopin]

Treasure Hunter being the best talent ever.

WHAT!?!? I hope you are kidding, noone needs... (jk, jk) Btw what happened to that thread? Not often one can see a thread going well and alive after 3(?) years of heated debate.

On the potions though, not sure what would be gained by this mechanic. Balancing it out to work similarly to today would require p17-35 releases, just to get it back to today's state. We'd go from everything blessed, to nothing blessed and vice versa... Balance is hard, requires a lot of iterations to get it right. That change would be huge, not really sure what good comes out of it (empty flasks just add to inventory management which is one of the things I hate most in adom, alchemy is already in the game, so only thing coming from this would be potions of lava/fire once volcano is up and running, or potion of piranhas, if we had acid rivers etc this could be fun but in current state, not that much to put in there except water and it would totally break balance)

EDIT: come to think of it, wielding an empty flask and activating acid trap could be used for acid potions, and corruption traps for potions of corruption, this would be kind of cool. And since there are blank scrolls similar mechanic is already in place, still not sure if it is worth the effort though

[Silfir]

There is no way we could be cooler, Greyling. No worries!

This place has always been a safe haven. We can think of our respective ideas and viewpoints any way we like, deep down we just enjoy having found that magical place on the internet where someone will argue with you about your favorite thing in the world. What is the occasional name-calling, snippiness or other example of social clumsiness compared to the wonders of family?

Implementing refillable potion flasks is a dumb idea (in my most humble opinion, and, well, I'm just my usual kind of idiot), but you're cool. Never let yourself think otherwise!

[gut]

wait... I thought we all agreed that treasure hunter sucked.

[StViers]

But he seems like a pretty think skinned guy in general, so...

He's probably spec'ed into the Immune to Pain talent tree ;)

Also, gut is shooting across the bow (again). You guys gonna take that? I personally feel that treasure hunter trait should just be renamed "potions of water-finding" instead, as that's really the only reason I get it--it seems way too hard to get water without it. XD

[Greyling]

We are talking about the poison hands that somehow seep through non-thick gauntlets and cause the stuff you touch to have a sickly green glow? Or, for that matter, make your weapon poisonous just by wielding, rather than requiring you to coat it in the poison in regular intervals?

I'm pretty literal on this myself.

Okay, back to this.

No, I agree that the current way poison hands currently behaves does seem "magical". The point is that the mechanics should match the name and description of the corruption. It seems like the "sickly green glow" effect should be removed, or it should be called "cursed hands", or the effect should be described as "anything you touch turns to poison". And I realize that particular name and/or description may not be ideal, they were just examples.

As far as the poisoned weapons go, I think that may be fairly rational. If your hands are dripping a lot of poisonous fluid, and your weapon is held at a level below your hands some of the time, it makes sense that the fluid would drip down onto the weapon. Maybe wearing thick gloves should negate that effect too? Or would the gloves fill with fluid eventually?

It probably does make sense that most gauntlets are not water tight, at any rate. I can't think of any reason why they would be made that way. Perhaps the "thick gloves" could be better named, but I think the point is that you could conceivably find water proof gloves, and those might prevent contamination of things you touched.

[Greyling]

Piety levels aren't displayed because your deity isn't a part of your character. It's supposed to be something your character has no clue about. Your Mana score, on the other hand, is a part of you - how well you are connected to the flow of Mana. Who's to say that if our world actually had magic, we wouldn't also be able to feel it? Like a tingle?

Well, the first thing here is that piety is probably a bad term for the concept that is being discussed here. Piety, at least according to google, is "The quality of being religious or reverent". So, it really describes how much your character believes in their god, but in the game it functions as a measure of how much a character's god believes in them, so to speak. Probably "favor" or "closeness" would be a better term. I don't know if piety is actually a term used in game, or if it was just invented by players, but it doesn't really make that much sense in the context it is used.

That said, "piety" definitely is something your character "has a clue" about. There are many (even more with recent releases) types of feelings that your character gets informing them of their degree of closeness to their god. So you already get feedback about piety, I'm just saying it should be explicitly quantified. At the very least, the PC's level of closeness should be visible on the character sheet, even if it was listed in a purely non-numerical way.

I agree that the PC might be able to feel magic flowing through them, and I'm saying that if they can detect their level of magic accurately enough to distinguish between a mana of 23 and 24, they should be able to determine their level of piety pretty accurately too.


I'm not sure what you want to hear from me on the water thing. I haven't even read through your suggested implementation the first time around, mostly because refilling schemes for water have been suggested before and no one's been able to explain to me why the game needs it

I was saying that piety cost would limit the availability of holy water rather than the scarcity of the water itself. I can't really say the game "needs" it, any more than the game needs a command to clean your ears, or it needs frost bolts to turn water squares into ice, or needs appearance to be diminished by wearing rusty items. It's just a "wouldn't it be cool if..." type of thing.

[TheCableGuy]

We are talking about the poison hands that somehow seep through non-thick gauntlets and cause the stuff you touch to have a sickly green glow? Or, for that matter, make your weapon poisonous just by wielding, rather than requiring you to coat it in the poison in regular intervals?

I'm pretty literal on this myself.

Meh.. Actually, I always pictured the "Hands Dripping with Poison" meant that your hands are DRENCHING everything you touch in Poison,
and just holding a weapon would cause it to become Poisoned as the Poison runs down the blade. No Magic involved.

And I don't take the "Glow in *** Light" very seriously when something can Glow black either when it's Blesses or Cursed, depending on Alignment.

[Greyling]

On the potions though, not sure what would be gained by this mechanic. Balancing it out to work similarly to today would require p17-35 releases just to get it back to today's state. We'd go from everything blessed, to nothing blessed and vice versa... Balance is hard, requires a lot of iterations to get it right.

Admittedly, I cannot comment much about the balance side of things.


That change would be huge, not really sure what good comes out of it (empty flasks just add to inventory management which is one of the things I hate most in adom, alchemy is already in the game, so only thing coming from this would be potions of lava/fire once volcano is up and running, or potion of piranhas, if we had acid rivers etc this could be fun but in current state, not that much to put in there except water and it would totally break balance)

There would be more you could do with empty flasks than fill them with water. You could also fill from pools. As far as unwanted empty bottles accumulating, each time you drank a potion you would be given the prompt: Do you want to keep the bottle or throw it away? There wouldn't be any additional items accumulating in your inventory unless you wanted them there.

[Silfir]

Well, the first thing here is that piety is probably a bad term for the concept that is being discussed here. Piety, at least according to google, is "The quality of being religious or reverent". So, it really describes how much your character believes in their god, but in the game it functions as a measure of how much a character's god believes in them, so to speak. Probably "favor" or "closeness" would be a better term. I don't know if piety is actually a term used in game, or if it was just invented by players, but it doesn't really make that much sense in the context it is used.

That said, "piety" definitely is something your character "has a clue" about. There are many (even more with recent releases) types of feelings that your character gets informing them of their degree of closeness to their god. So you already get feedback about piety, I'm just saying it should be explicitly quantified. At the very least, the PC's level of closeness should be visible on the character sheet, even if it was listed in a purely non-numerical way.

I agree that the PC might be able to feel magic flowing through them, and I'm saying that if they can detect their level of magic accurately enough to distinguish between a mana of 23 and 24, they should be able to determine their level of piety pretty accurately too.

No, because piety doesn't flow through their body. Piety, as we understand it, is the goodwill your deity feels towards you as a result of your actions. You can feel it - at an altar, right after you've sacrificed something. Or after you've prayed. The circumstances need to be a certain way. To use the pen and paper analogy, piety might be something you keep track of in your notes, or somewhere on the character sheet, but only the Gamemaster controls the NPCs, and only the Gamemaster knows what happens when you're occupied with something else. Whereas a change to the magic that flows through or around the character is something they would notice at any time.

What piety "should" mean isn't really relevant there. We can call piety "God credits" if you object to the use of the term in that way. In any case, it's far more interesting for the PC not to know at all times. Divine powers are fickle, inscrutable, and need not, and should not, be subject to RPG accounting.


I was saying that piety cost would limit the availability of holy water rather than the scarcity of the water itself. I can't really say the game "needs" it, any more than the game needs a command to clean your ears, or it needs frost bolts to turn water squares into ice, or needs appearance to be diminished by wearing rusty items. It's just a "wouldn't it be cool if..." type of thing.

When I say "if the game needs it" I'm adressing the "Wouldn't it be cool" question in the first place. I fail to see the cool thing here. I do see that the player would now have to keep track of empty flasks to be refilled later... and that's it. That's all this mechanic adds to the game. What's cool about that? Your argumentation skips straight ahead to what other changes one would have to make to preserve game balance, and I have trouble paying attention there simply because I don't accept the premise that there is anything worthwhile about the concept. You cannot tell me that refilling water flasks is on the same level of cool as blasting water with ice spells so you can walk on it. What's more, the things you name are already in the game, and they're all little things. Completely reforming the balance of how potions of water are created or turned into holy water, when holy water is the most versatile and widely-used and important resource in the game - that's not a little thing.

EDIT: You'd like to expand the mechanic to include other types of liquid, apparently - that makes it somewhat more exciting, I guess. Not nearly enough to clutter up the inventory with empty flasks, though.


Meh.. Actually, I always pictured the "Hands Dripping with Poison" meant that your hands are DRENCHING everything you touch in Poison,
and just holding a weapon would cause it to become Poisoned as the Poison runs down the blade. No Magic involved.

And I don't take the "Glow in *** Light" very seriously when something can Glow black either when it's Blesses or Cursed, depending on Alignment.

Oh, we get to pick and choose? In that case, I am the best ADOM player ever and I cannot take evidence to the contrary very seriously because of reasons.

[Saracen]

To Greyling;

I have gotten the impression there are little to none features in Adom you are satisfied with? Is this a correct assumption? I am thinking you want to modify Adom to be your "dream" game. Easier solution would be to try another game closer to your preferences. Dont get me wrong, suggestions are a good thing, but when you suggest changing most of the core mechanics of the game, it seems you need a different game altogether.

[Greyling]

To Greyling;

I have gotten the impression there are little to none features in Adom you are satisfied with? Is this a correct assumption?

I think ADOM is the greatest game ever made. I told Thomas that when I bought into the pre-release campaign. I am satisfied with almost all the features in it.


I am thinking you want to modify Adom to be your "dream" game. Easier solution would be to try another game closer to your preferences. Dont get me wrong, suggestions are a good thing, but when you suggest changing most of the core mechanics of the game, it seems you need a different game altogether.

I don't expect any of the changes I suggest to ever be incorporated into ADOM. It's just fun to talk about how the game works, and what changes to it might be interesting. Also, this kind of discussion sometimes helps me understand why the way things currently are is the best way for them to be.

And, really, there's no where else I know of where you can talk about this kind of stuff.

[Greyling]

Silfir's last post

Well, I suppose I can't disagree with what you are said. I'd say you are right about this one.

[Saracen]

To Greyling;

Ok, I clearly misunderstood you then. It's true that there are few places you can discuss things at this level. You should think about studying game industry, as you clearly have some strong ideas about games and their mechanics.

[TheCableGuy]

Oh, we get to pick and choose? In that case, I am the best ADOM player ever and I cannot take evidence to the contrary very seriously because of reasons.

I said nothing about "Picking and Choosing"
It's all about Player Perspective.

To me, the Trait just doesn't appear to me all that "Magical."