Dooming: Is it that bad? (through an artifact)

[cobaltofdoom]

Ok. Got Celestrix on a Dark Elf paladin as a precrown. So good. But the dooming. How bad is it? I've played games where I've worn the crown of science for ages. Admittedly this was in 1.1.
Seemed ok?
Adom Wiki seems to think its terrible.
Opinions?

[Silfir]

JellySlayer can give you the complete rundown. Right now, the armor on Celestrix is so ridiculous compared to everything else that it might be worth it. Lategame, when the rest of your equipment shapes up, I'd stop using it.

[cobaltofdoom]

Coool. Ta!

[Al-Khwarizmi]

My impression is that if you also have Lucky and Fate Smiles (for example wearing the blessed ankh) it's not that bad. But even with that, I have my doubts that it's really worth it - you'll be getting awesome DV and PV, but receiving significantly more crits. I guess it's OK for style points though.

If you don't have Lucky and Fate Smiles, dooming is really bad.

From what I know, all this hasn't changed from 1.1.1 to the prereleases (only a bug was fixed by which fireproof blankets would last more, not less, when doomed - or something like that).

[asdf]

Ok. Got Celestrix on a Dark Elf paladin as a precrown. So good. But the dooming. How bad is it? I've played games where I've worn the crown of science for ages. Admittedly this was in 1.1.
Seemed ok?
Adom Wiki seems to think its terrible.
Opinions?
Played mist elf assassin just recently with Celestrix. It is amazing early/mid game, but you should stop using it late-game due to corruption.

Requirements -
1) light source, always (screw ankh, use amulet of light)
2) do not be a packrat, it does not provide wonders of blessed girdle of carrying:(
3) relatively good weapon, doomes could be treated as -some% damage due to tougher monsters

Most "normal" disadvantages of doomed (bad luck, stat drain, special attacks, etc, etc) goes right away due to [+13, +13]. What cant hurt you will not hurt you (usually...).

When to put off Celestrix -
1) You already have a lot of DV/PV and armor bonus starting to get negligible.
2) You are wandering in heavy corruption areas (DL 40+)
3) You found yourself unable to hack your way through cavernous levels, thats a good sign that your damage is low enough to consider removing doomed

[asdf]

My impression is that if you also have Lucky and Fate Smiles (for example wearing the blessed ankh) it's not that bad. But even with that, I have my doubts that it's really worth it - you'll be getting awesome DV and PV, but receiving significantly more crits. I guess it's OK for style points though.
I've been only intristically lucky/fate smiled, no ankh - no problems. DV/PV solves 90% of problems. I had more problems being cursed with ankh without good DV/PV (something like 30/15) that doomed without ankh with Celestrix bonus (45/30? monsters, you are a nuisance.)

[anon123]

The DV, PV and intrinsics are tempting, but from my experience, dooming lives up to its name and is never worth the exchange. Especially when you're going to be dealing with most things in melee. Monsters gain extra hit points, ignore PV, damage armor and crit a lot more often, and item destruction increases considerably.

It's a little sad because Celestrix would be an absolutely great item if it didn't doom, but the same can be said of the SoRS and Chaos essence. You're supposed to take the good and the bad, or neither.

[asdf]

The DV, PV and intrinsics are tempting, but from my experience, dooming lives up to its name and is never worth the exchange. Especially when you're going to be dealing with most things in melee. Monsters gain extra hit points, ignore PV, damage armor and crit a lot more often, and item destruction increases considerably.

Monster gain extra hit points, deal a lot less damage to you (they miss, miss, fail to hurt you, miss, fail to hurt you and occasionaly ignore PV... one in a 100 times), do not damage armor (they need to pierce it first, and... see above), crits are barely noticeable (PV!), and items destruction... well, didnt noticed. Shock item destruction is most certanly greatly reduced.

[+13, +13] doing WONDERS early/mid game.

Everything that you described - is true, when monsters _can_ hit you, and then you are really doomed with all of the above happening. With Celestrix they cant hit you, and thats the difference.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

Monster gain extra hit points, deal a lot less damage to you (they miss, miss, fail to hurt you, miss, fail to hurt you and occasionaly ignore PV... one in a 100 times), do not damage armor (they need to pierce it first, and... see above), crits are barely noticeable (PV!), and items destruction... well, didnt noticed. Shock item destruction is most certanly greatly reduced.
I guess it's subjective and a matter of playstyle, but I'd rather have monsters regularly hit me for X damage, than monsters not hitting me most of the time, but then getting occasional armor-piercing crits for 3X damage. The former is much more controllable, predictable and gives you time to flee, recover health, etc.

[asdf]

I guess it's subjective and a matter of playstyle, but I'd rather have monsters regularly hit me for X damage, than monsters not hitting me most of the time, but then getting occasional armor-piercing crits for 3X damage. The former is much more controllable, predictable and gives you time to flee, recover health, etc.
There are not many monsters that can bother you with occasional armor-piercing crits for 3X damage. Yes, you need to be careful around top-tier monsters - berserker emperors, fire giants, ogre emperors, mimic hiveminds, etc, etc... But majority of them are only encountered at the late-game when DL goes above 25-30. There it would be wise to remove this girdle.

But early-mid game? Stone golems, fomorian giants, gray slayers, dark orcs, ogre kings, berserker princes, all those type of annoying and semi-dangerous mid-tier monster are _not a threat_. That gives tons of survival.

[Sami]

Being doomed makes you a lot more vulnerable to instant deaths... Normally if you have fate smiles (or maybe just lucky is enough) and monster critically hits you, you're often left 1 hp instead of being killed. But while you're doomed (and in this case also cursed) you'll hardly ever succeed with that saving roll and will die instead.
Also you really should avoid all paralyzing monsters like plague because those are very likely to keep you paralyzed if they manage to paralyze you once (being paralyzed significantly lowers your DV and they'll ignore your PV a lot more often).

However that regeneration ability is nice and can be used quite safely to heal yourself between battles.

[JellySlayer]

The biggest problem while doomed is paralysis. I've had characters with 40-50 PV killed by a single ghul in the Griffyard before. If they punch your armor and paralyze you, it's probably game over. Carrion crawlers, gelatinous cubes, staring eyes, etc. can all be game-enders.

[grobblewobble]

Isn't intrinsic doom (as your characters have) worse than from an item?

[cobaltofdoom]

I've heard that yes.

Doom double corruption from background doesn't it? That blows.

[JellySlayer]

Isn't intrinsic doom (as your characters have) worse than from an item?

In terms of luck rolls, certainly yes. I suspect that there are other effects associated with intrinsic dooming but not with items, but I haven't ever tried to quantify it.

[gosos]

you can be auto-killed in the dark while doomed right? does anyone know the odds of this?
btw, I never used a torch. you carry it in tools right? how do you light it?

sounds like dooming items could be good if you want to get crowned. to get lots of mobs to spawn.

[anon123]

btw, I never used a torch. you carry it in tools right? how do you light it?

'U'se it. You need firemaking items for this, but since they're plentiful (more than the torches themselves, before the balance changes) that shouldn't be a problem. You can also equip torches as melee weapons.

[kordi82]

For me this is very simple.

Without doom I can deal basically with everything in the game. Seriously... with introduction of talents game became much, much easier. You can outrun basically everything. I do not have to fight it. I do not need 13 PV girdle for this. With the most dangerous early/mid game monsters 13 PV will not help you much i.e. Vortices.

However, with dooming, there will be random situations that you seriously cannot control or predict. i.e. There will be Acid and Stone Block trap next to each other and with dooming they will drag your 90 mid game HP to -10.... There will be a water trap that will destroy all your scroll and rust all your equipement. Rat will punch trhough your armor and will cause you sickness.... etc.

My advice. Keep it always in your backpack and put it on in certain situations i.e. if you need quick regen or quick boost to your PV or Ligthning lizard starts shooting lightning from outside of your sight range... Other than that, if you want to play normal game put wear it. It is not worth it. Makes the game random.

Oh... you can also use it for another precrown. Dooming = increased monster generation = easier precrown.

P.S.
No-one mentioned that while doomed your chances of generating other gear are worse... i.e. RoDS etc.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

You expressed it much better than me, but the idea that I had in my mind was similar. DV and PV help a lot with everyday combat (you take less -or no- damage, etc.), but dooming is disadvantageous for the extreme cases (being repeatedly paralyzed, stunned by hits, blinded by traps and then critted by some mob or blasted by a vortex, etc.) where DV/PV also help, but not that much. And the extreme cases are the ones that tend to kill your char, at least if you are being careful, as the everyday damage can always be healed or fleed away from.

[JellySlayer]

No-one mentioned that while doomed your chances of generating other gear are worse... i.e. RoDS etc.

Drop rates and quality are the same for doomed characters as regular PCs in my experience.

[edit]

you can be auto-killed in the dark while doomed right? does anyone know the odds of this?

You can be randomly eaten by a grue upon entering a darkened area (not simply standing in darkness as the Guidebook suggests). The odds are apparently around 1/50. I've had this happen a handful of times before. Flickering light rooms become very dangerous since you have to survive a 1/50 death chance every other step.

[gosos]

do torches have any other use other than in the dark?

[gosos]

anyone ever try using torches on the tree level since the trees are weak to torches?

[JellySlayer]

do torches have any other use other than in the dark?

They increase your sight range, but kill your ability to use stealth. The former can be useful in some circumstances.

[edit]As an aside, I had a doomed chaos knight with 30 PV and 100 hp killed by a ghul on D:2 the other day.