Favorite Companions and Training Sites

[Dodger]

Simple topic. I learned just tonight that the animated forest is amazing for training up killer bugs, if you're lucky enough to manage to tame one. If you lose sight of the stairs under all the mountains of loot, head to the other side of the room and 'L'ook at the squares until it tells you there's loot and stairs in the same tile. The respawn rate means there's never a shortage of targets, and the bug pulls aggression onto itself just by killing the first couple of things. I didn't time it, but it felt like only twenty minutes before mine hit level 29.

How about you all? What's your favorite training site and favorite companion?

[grobblewobble]

My favourite companion is the berserker emperor. His main weakness is having zero PV. But this can be fixed. As long as it is hostile, it will pick up armor and equip it. It will gain the bonuses from this armor but no penalties. So ideally, you should let it pick up and equip a moloch armor. Then you can tame it easily afterward with a wedding ring.

Can't say much about training sites, the animated forest sounds very good.

[anon123]

My favourite companion is the berserker emperor. His main weakness is having zero PV. But this can be fixed. As long as it is hostile, it will pick up armor and equip it. It will gain the bonuses from this armor but no penalties. So ideally, you should let it pick up and equip a moloch armor. Then you can tame it easily afterward with a wedding ring.

Can't say much about training sites, the animated forest sounds very good.

This strategy is limited to ladies only after the prerelease 7 - wedding rings tame berserkers of the opposite gender now, and only regular berserkers can be female :( Otherwise, it's a good idea. If you let them equip some spare shields and armor they could get awesome PV and DV. I recall reading someone got to haul the Chaos trinity without getting corrupted using what would be an abusive relationship: make the berserker hostile, let them pick up the items, then give another wedding ring.

As for the original question, I imagine quickling queens would go nuts in the animated forest :)

[_Ln_]

This strategy is limited to ladies only after the prerelease 7 - wedding rings tame berserkers of the opposite gender now, and only regular berserkers can be female :( Otherwise, it's a good idea. If you let them equip some spare shields and armor they could get awesome PV and DV. I recall reading someone got to haul the Chaos trinity without getting corrupted using what would be an abusive relationship: make the berserker hostile, let them pick up the items, then give another wedding ring.

As for the original question, I imagine quickling queens would go nuts in the animated forest :)

Did I miss a bug report? Why would TB do that, this mechanic was hilarious :D

On a related thought, two rfe's are in order:
1) Allow 'g'iving intelligent companions pieces of armor to equip.
2) Allow wishing for female variations of a monster.

[Blasphemous]

I normally play solo but on rare occasions when I have a companion, it's usually one that can be tamed with music (I love playing bards) and thus - killer bugs, like OP said.
Endless abundance in case your current bug dies, they are deadly starting from exp lvl 1, always catch up with the player due to high speed, don't summon useless hordes of monsters, don't cast bolts, throw rocks or shoot projectiles. The only downside is when you step on a fireball trap or kick trapped door and they explode. In that case, a hostile Killer Bug is exactly that - killer - and when its level is high, not even high lvl PCs can survive that.

[anon123]

Did I miss a bug report? Why would TB do that, this mechanic was hilarious :D

http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1360

Looks like it was one of those "Kelly wasn't meant to be permainvis" bugs.


On a related thought, two rfe's are in order:
1) Allow 'g'iving intelligent companions pieces of armor to equip.
2) Allow wishing for female variations of a monster.

I'd upvote those. Companions don't currently pick up any items because anything they get their hands on before the player effectively becomes unavailable unless they're killed (that's official). I'm thinking you shouldn't be able to give them things like the Chaos orbs or trinity to equip though, because losing a companion in the Pyramid or Minotaur Maze and being unable to return would make the game unwinnable (very unlikely to happen, but people have done crazier things).

[Stingray1]

Well, you can't have 'companions' carry artifacts for you currently anyway. Monsters don't pick up artifacts, which is stupid and unnecessary.

I honestly don't get the argument for the game not being winnable. It can still be ended by quitting or leaving the chain or dying. If a player is stupid enough to make it unwinnable, too bad.

[anon123]

I honestly don't get the argument for the game not being winnable. It can still be ended by quitting or leaving the chain or dying. If a player is stupid enough to make it unwinnable, too bad.

ADOM can be highly unfair at times, and I do like it that way, because in principle you always have the possibility of coming ahead despite those shortfalls, and it is greatly satisfying to achieve it. But you don't have that with actions that make the game unwinnable (even if some of them you pretty much have be spoiled about and, indeed, do in purpose).

I think TB expressed a similar viewpoint in the bug tracker as his motivation to fix anything that causes those scenarios.

[Silfir]

My favorite companion is my own soul-crushing loneliness. I don't have to wait for it to catch up when I reach the down staircases, because it will never, ever leave my side for even a second.

[grobblewobble]

My favorite companion is my own soul-crushing loneliness. I don't have to wait for it to catch up when I reach the down staircases, because it will never, ever leave my side for even a second.

:D :D :D

My honest answer too, actually.

[JellySlayer]

I only use pets in fairly specific instances, and never, ever bother training them.

I have been known to use scrolls of familiar summoning on TF:3 for some easy ACW killers. Great karmic wyrms, titans, ancient karmic dragons, molochs, etc. can all make short work of him. Pretty much anything with fire resistance (needed for TF:4) is probably honestly strong enough to kill the ACW.

Greater earth elementals are common in the very highest DL areas. They're tough, move through walls, and regenerate. Handy if you need some extra help to clear D:50 or Mana Temple (though the Archmage is more than strong enough to kill one of these). Greater fire/air elementals are lame, unfortunately, and spawn equally commonly.

Raccoons and ants are easily tamable with music and will dig rocks for you, which is very nice if you're in need of early game projectiles or gems.

That's pretty much it as far as useful pets go.

[Carter]

I only use pets in fairly specific instances, and never, ever bother training them.


Ditto. i'll use them as cannon fodder (ie: the ACW a summon in between him and you is always handy)

i once had a lvl 50 necro, trained up a quickening queen etc, but i eventually left her behind - teleport's convenience out weighs a monster that is going to steal xp from you anyway.

[gut]

> Monsters don't pick up artifacts, which is stupid and unnecessary.

The si is the only one mobs won't pick.

[JellySlayer]

I think this was changed in a recent version to prevent some obscure situations (eg. a monster grabbing a chaos orb in a wilderness encounter and fleeing with it).

[Stingray1]

Now why would a chaos orb be lying around in the wilderness.

This change has broken much more than it has fixed, I'm afraid.

Anyway, sorry for de-rail.

I tend to only use companions for specific tasks: getting rid of cats, first kills, Thrundarr, Eternal Guardian, Steel Golems. Other than that I have tried to train up companions when playing a Bard, but they tend to die, so I've learned to rather not waste turns and experience for such things.

[persy]

Now you can hack through gremlin cave without worrying that one of this thousand gremlins picked up the vial :-)
On the other no hand no more artifact-companion fun. Like do the foeslammer's unholy aura works when your pet berserker wields it?

[Stingray1]

Now you can hack through gremlin cave without worrying that one of this thousand gremlins picked up the vial :-)
On the other no hand no more artifact-companion fun. Like do the foeslammer's unholy aura works when your pet berserker wields it?

Actually, it is sometimes convenient that one of the gremlins 'brings' the phial to you, ask me. :)

Look, this has been reported, I appologize for being somewhat impatient, it is unlike me. Sceptre of Chaos, greater vaults, black Torc, just a few that are broken now.

[grobblewobble]

I tend to only use companions for specific tasks: getting rid of cats, first kills, Thrundarr, Eternal Guardian, Steel Golems.
They're also great to calm down an NPC if you accidentally angered him. For example, I once angered the demented ratling during an ultra attempt. So I tamed a weak companion and let the demented ratling attack it. Once the companion died, the ratling was non-hostile again.

[anon123]

Now why would a chaos orb be lying around in the wilderness.

This change has broken much more than it has fixed, I'm afraid.

That was changed as a means of addressing issue 735. I agree disallowing all artifacts from being picked up is overkill and unnecessary. Chaos orbs are vital to completing the game, and in that regard I stand by my previous post. But if a ratling duelist disarms your Executor, then picks it up and gets away, then that's ADOM for you ;)

As for the topic at hand, I've tried to play with companions some times, but all of them eventually hurt me - in more ways than one.

PS: has the strategy of taming cats and sending them against vortices been mentioned already? That's another good use for pets. :D

[gut]

if you can get hawkslayer to a high enough level to kill eternal guardians, he can pretty much just keep one-shotting them and level to insane levels.

dunno if 'training' means scumming PoUH from Jharod, but that is another good 'training' spot for Hawkslayer.

Bigroom is decent for noob pets.

Killer bugs train well in darkforge, believe it or not, just make sure to let them heal (a lot, sometimes) in between fights.

[gosos]

is it the bard character that tames bugs? i have not played a bard nor have i played a necromancer. not sure if anything else gets much pets. have not bothered giving bones to dogs for pets either.

how well do pets follow you? this is a known (and intentional) hassle in nethack.

[grobblewobble]

I'd still love to see a quickling queen skeletal warrior slave in action some time.

I've had a quickling queen as pet once. That was an amazing companion. Poisons enemies while ignoring their PV, incredibly fast and regenerates at insane speed.. almost as strong as a killer bug, but able to keep up with you too. It was great, until she found a corruption trap, transformed herself into a purple J of doom in one round and killed me in the next round.

Gosos: yes bards are the ones that can tame animals. They follow you all right, but if your character is faster than the pet you will of course constantly have to wait for it. Pushing them ahead through hallways helps somewhat, also because the pet won't get angry if it triggers a trap itself.

[Blasphemous]

Actually, bard pets falling behind can be a good thing - when you step on a fireball trap, they don't get hostile. Waiting for them usually takes 5-10 turns so it's not a big problem.
Besides, when playing a bard usually I only keep pets until I can safely take on monsters myself. Bards aren't too good in combat or magic, especially at the beginning, but more so than other classes.
Additionally, I feel that if pets kill monsters, treasure hunter talent doesn't apply.

[SiTLar]

I had a balor companion once. I used a SoFS in the Dwarven Halls. I back than was a beginner, and didn't know how to exploit it the right way. At some point we got in tough situation and the balor summoned molochs. That was really cool.

[FnrrfYgmSchnish]

I've had Greater Earth/Fire Elementals from a scroll of familiar summoning in the Dwarven Halls a few times before.

Whenever I play bards I always try to tame an ant queen, though--maybe not the absolute strongest thing in the world I (not nearly as tough as the greater elementals and such, anyway...), but they seem to hold up pretty well and start doing pretty impressive damage to most things once they've leveled up. I'm pretty sure I've seen their damage range get into the triple-digits before (according to the monster memory screen "each his does X to Y damage, average Z" bit.) The only problem is they seem to have weird behavior (randomly turning hostile on you) if you find another ant nest later on.

Never tried taming the higher-level claw bugs, though. The regular claw bugs seem to be a bit squishy. I imagine killer bugs would work really well, but I'd be afraid to so much as go near killer bugs with a bard early on. Or even not-early-on. Actually I tend to avoid the bug place entirely unless I have tons of magic to blast them with before they can get close. XD

[Blasphemous]

With high strength and very high to-hit, you can melee both greater and killer bugs quite effectively.
Twin daggers are amazing against them because of the high chance to hit.
Back in 1.1.1, I used to run with lvl 1 bard straight for the bug temple to tame some of them.
Tame one, order it to kill a hostile one, then either tame the victor if it's hostile or continue to the next one.
Now apparently bugs are much harder to tame. Bards start with a guaranteed wand of light though, so you can level up in gremlin cave easily to level 6 and max out music.
A lvl 10 killer bug kills barnabas with ease and you can then proceed to loot his store.