How to make my DE Paladin unlock the secrets of magic

[Cactus]

Hi again,
I have played many spellcasters in ADOM, but never really managed to handle a semicaster. Now my current character is a good example, and I would really like some advice of the more experienced players on how to get him to read those books.

Traath is a cup-born dark elven paladin and does a good job with melee and missiles for the moment. I really like the skillset, including find weakness, healing, alertness and athletics. Will add herbalism to that.

He only did SMC->UD so far and is at the HMV now. Found some impressive equipment, even had 7LB (and lost them to an acid trap, I mean come on, it was pouring from the ceiling! Wouldn't that hit the helmet first, RNG?)

Wi 16 (before any herbs) and Ma 20 should allow some nice spellcasting, BUT Le is only at 11.

He found a book shop (!) in UD:1 with many nice combat spells, Ethereal Bridge and more. It would be a shame to not make use of that.

So from searching in the forum and reading the guidebook I understand that Learning is the most important thing to increase followed by Literacy and Concentration.

Learning: First of all, I should train with Garth. What target value would you suggest? Then I could eat the Oracle for another +6 once I find an altar and build up enough piety to get rid of dooming quickly. Is there any other way? Crystals of knowledge will be too hard to get without Mining+Gemology I guess...

Literacy: Stuck at 60 +1d5. How do I train it? I heard there were some changes in 1.2.0. regarding the effictivity of scrolls. Do the SMC scrolls work? The scroll of information disappeared after reading it twice, and the scroll of warning appears no to be empty when I read it. How about the ratling pamphlet and the papyrus scroll? Finally, do failed attempts with books count? I could use some Spellbooks of Light from the shop for that...

Concentration: 60 +3d5. I'm quite confident to raise this by simple levelling. But in general, is it possible to train it before being able to cast spells? I was thinking of keeping the next magebane eye around for a while to reduce my PP.

Cup Starsign: Will it increase the chance of understanding the books or simply add more casting points for every successful read?

Any advice very much appreciated!





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...................................===..===.
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Traath St:20 Le:11 Wi:16 Dx:14 To:12 Ch:12 Ap:16 Ma:20 Pe:18 C
DV/PV: 27/16 H: 71(71) P: 60(60) Exp: 10/35803 HIVI Sp: 108
Burdened


───────── Attribute Scores ───────── ──── Miscellaneous Data ────
Attribute Cur Max Tmp Spc Tot Speed: 108 (fast)
Strength 13 18 +7 20 Money: 8279 gold pieces
Learning 11 33 11 Debts: none
Willpower 16 21 16 Deity: Lol'th
Dexterity 14 34 14 Time : 0y, 3d, 7h, 50m, 15s
Toughness 12 15 12 Birth: 247/Cup
Charisma 12 16 12 Month: 4/Unicorn
Appearance 16 27 16 Day : 4/94: Oneweek
Mana 20 41 20 Moon : Waxing
Perception 18 26 18 Age : 142/147 years

─────────────────────────────── Encumbrance ────────────────────────────────
1928s (burdened: 1688s+, strained: 2251s+, very strained: 3376-3937s)

─────────────────────────────── Melee Damage ───────────────────────────────
Right hand: +19 bonus to hit, 1d7+17 damage

───────────────────────────── Missile Damage ───────────────────────────────
Ammunition: 32, base range: 4, +20 bonus to hit, 1d4+15 damage

─────────────────────────────── Kick Damage ────────────────────────────────
+16 bonus to hit, 1d4+4 damage

[Press SPACE to continue]


A - Alertness ............ 66 (good) [+3d3]
B - Athletics ............ 42 (fair) [+4d4]
C - Climbing ............. 36 (fair) [+3d5]
D - Concentration ........ 60 (good) [+3d5]
E - Dodge ................ 31 (fair) [+3d4]
F - Find weakness ........ 63 (good) [+1d5]
G - First aid ............ 46 (fair) [+3d4]
H - Haggling ............. 31 (fair) [+3d3]
I - Healing .............. 100 (superb) [+1d5]
J - Listening ............ 46 (fair) [+3d4]
K - Literacy ............. 60 (good) [+1d5]
L - Stealth .............. 40 (fair) [+1d5]
M - Swimming ............. 37 (fair) [+3d3]
N - Two weapon combat .... 5 (poor) [+4d5]


────────────────────────────── PERSONAL EQUIPMENT ──────────────────────────────

Total weight: 1928 stones Carrying capacity: 2250 stones

A - Head : mithril cap [+0, +2] [40s]
B - Neck : platinum amulet [3s]
C - Body : elven chain mail [+0, +5] [10s]
D - Girdle : adamantium girdle [+0, +3] [18s]
E - Cloak : hooded cloak [+1, +0] [40s]
F - Right Hand : adamantium broadsword (+0, 1d7+7) [57s]
G - Left Hand : large adamantium shield (-1) [+10, +3] [86s]
H - Right Ring : onyx ring [1s]
I - Left Ring : wooden ring [1s]
J - Bracers : -
K - Gauntlets : iron gauntlets "Ironfist" (-1, +0) [+1, +3] {St+7} [10s]
L - Boots : boots of speed [-1, +0] (+8 spd) [20s]
M - Missile Weapon: -
N - Missiles : 32 rocks (+0, 1d4) [160s]
O - Tool : holy symbol [5s]

Melee weapon Lvl Hit Dam DV Level Required marks
───────────────────── ─── ─── ─── ── ───────────── ──────────────
Unarmed fighting 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 15
Daggers & knives 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 15
Clubs & hammers 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 15
Maces & flails 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 15
Swords 6 +4 +2 +1 skilled 81
Axes 4 +3 +2 +0 skilled 18
Whips 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 15
Pole arms 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 15
Twohanded weapons 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 15
Staves 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 15
Missile weapon Lvl Hit Dam Ra Level Required marks
───────────────────── ─── ─── ─── ── ───────────── ──────────────
Slings 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 7
Bows 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 7
Crossbows 2 +4 +3 +0 basic 19
Thrown axes & hammers 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 7
Thrown daggers 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 7
Thrown rocks & clubs 5 +10 +7 +1 skilled 64
Thrown spears 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 7
Boomerangs & scurgari 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 7
Shields Lvl DV Level Required marks
───────────────────── ─── ─── ───────────── ──────────────
Shields 4 +8 skilled 53

[Alucard]

What version ADOM?

Cup helps you get more out of your reading.

In addition to what you already know, leveling up also helps.

[Mobius]

Being higher level helps. Blessing the spellbook helps.
Pick a simple spell, bless the book, read it and book cast it.
The center of the druid's island in the village is a special spot for regaining hp too.

and wow, so many unidentified items. Get that fixed! You might have something interesting to help.

(and train up your STR by walking around strained, but you may need to take off your gauntlets)

And desperation move - train the stats you can, then drink a potion of exchange. Might get lucky

[GordonOverkill]

I am not fammiliar with the closed prereleases. For the last public version, I have recorded a youtube let's play where I teach a drakeling paladin some spells. If you like to take a look, you find it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouHoo5wpk28&list=PLOdHNY3MGPatRQexsLHfcZcRnFj1oTe91&index=43

What definitely helps you alot is the crown of science. You should try to get it before you start reading, I think.

[Cactus]

It's version 1.2.0.p5

Of course some more levels will be needed. But I was hoping to have some fire magic in the pyramid already, not sure if that's too optimistic...

Btw, Alucard thanks for putting up the servers. I'm actually using the UK server for my current games. Works like a charm!

I think I gave too much specific information in the OP. In general, I would be interested in the minimum target stats where experienced players would start their reading attempts. Plus of course ways to getting these stats/skills I'm not aware of

[Alucard]

You may be out of luck to due this bug (http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1313)

[Cactus]

...
(and train up your STR by walking around strained, but you may need to take off your gauntlets)


Yeah, I usually do that. Here, I got my strength drained by -3 in an undead vault, but fittingly the reward were the gauntlets. But is it necessary to take the gauntlets off? Because I heard that now the attributes increases are based on the base value (in order to prevent starvation training)

@Gordon: I'll have a look at the video, thanks! Ugh, Crown of science. But maybe this can be combined with the Oracle corpse (must remove doom anyway)


You may be out of luck to due this bug

Ok, if that's true then I'll try and get the newer versions. If people with Le 30 Conc 100 and Lit 100 have trouble reading Knock in 1.2p5 then there is really not much use in trying... :(

[GordonOverkill]

I played the same version in my video. Not sure about concentration and/or literacy skill level, but I defintiely increased it during many levels, trained learning with Garth and wore the crown of science. I read those books just before I went to the tower of eternal flames. Still I got a couple of nasty effects when reading some books that were not blessed, so successfully learning anything before you enter the pyramid might become a really hard task.

[grobblewobble]

Training with Garth gets really expensive quickly. I would just eat the oracle and then wear the CoS before reading.

The easiest way to increase your literacy score is to satisfy the ghost librarian. This will instantly boost your literacy to 100 (or very close to it).

Training concentration doesn't sound like it's worth the time with this character, if you can just pump it easily when levelling up.

A way to increase your learning score further is to get the ancient scythe and use it to transform all your useless potions into raw chaos and dip them into each other on D:1, as described in this post (http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread.php/12557-saving-the-sage-with-raw-chaos-dipping). This will give you useful potions like booze, exchange and gain attributes, but also potions of learning.


In general, I would be interested in the minimum target stats where experienced players would start their reading attempts.
I would first want 100 literacy and boost learning with the oracle and the CoS.

[Cactus]

That's great info, I wasn't aware neither of this special power of the Moon Sickle nor of the Librarian's reward in addition to the scrolls of chaos resistance.

[Stingray1]

Don't worry about the bug, I had even beastfighters learn spells with the bug. Easiest way to train your concentration to 100 real fast is to go fetch the phial of Caladriel and use it whenever your PP has recharged.

Definitely get Literacy to 100 too and get Learning up to about 20 with Garth. Wear the crown of science while reading, just remove it afterwards as it curses and dooms the character while worn.

I wouldn't start reading simple spells before level 18 or so, maybe you can try earlier and see.

[JellySlayer]

Level is a very important factor in spellcasting. Higher is better. Even wizards with 100 concentration and 100 literacy have trouble learning some spells at level 1.

Graveyards are a great place to train literacy. Spend a few minutes wandering around reading gravestones and you'll get literacy increases for awhile.

I prefer to have Learning over 20 before seriously attempting to read spellbooks. Garth + oracle can get you there easily as long as your potential isn't too low. If not, crown of science can help too as long as you remove it afterward.

[Mobius]

Yeah, I usually do that. Here, I got my strength drained by -3 in an undead vault, but fittingly the reward were the gauntlets. But is it necessary to take the gauntlets off? Because I heard that now the attributes increases are based on the base value (in order to prevent starvation training)


Anecdotal evidence - I seem to have better results when my stat boosting items are off. And with STR, it's nice being able to un-strain yourself with one easy move, putting gauntlets back on.

[gosos]

i play alot of paladins. im not an expert at the game... but i do play them alot. i find that paladins are not worth doing any magic until literacy is at 100. i generally dont like to read any spellbooks until they are blessed and Im atleast level 17. i try to ID them first. i find with paladins its best to hold off on magic in the earlier game. i usually dont try it until I reach dwarf town and have eaten the corpse in HMV that increases my learning (forgot name off hand). I also often stockpile gold to buy up my learning to the 20s before I try to read any books.

paladins do just fine with just melee/scrolls/potions and some kind of range item until then.

[gut]

pump Le: in every way possible.
Crown of Science, eat oracle, drink all +Le: potions including temporary boosters, garth training (do this first if possible), equip any +Le: items such as mental stability rings, hop in the ID for rooms that give +1 Le: and -1 St: (again, better early than late). After all that, find a bookshelf room

[Cactus]

Lots of useful advice, thanks!
Oh my, reading gravestones! I should have figured that out... Also, using the Phial to drain PP.

About the bookshelf rooms: The guidebook just says "faster when learning spells from books (half time)", but then again there's a lot of question marks in that section, so it's hard to tell between assumptions and evidence there.

Regarding the starsign, for a semicaster Book would have been a much better choice than Cup, because it actually helps the success chance. Cup on the other hand is better for a pure caster since it increases the casting points by 20%. Also, while the +2 Le of Cup are clearly documented in-game, Book actually gives +3 Le (undocumented in-game) according to the ADOM Wiki.