Let's play the new ADOM!

[GordonOverkill]

Hope I don't bore you guys with my videos, but I just couldn't resist to start a new series with the new open prereleases!

My first character on this version was Rattatordon, a Wolf-born ratling duelist. His exciting run through the Drakalor Chain found a sad ending when the save-file fell prey to a bug, just after he had retreated from a breathtaking battle in the Pyramid.
This playlist with twelve episdoes and 28705 turns is dedicated to his memory: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOdHNY3MGPasN5y9H1fRRa5YgHp8ThS54

Next I sent Pandora into the Chain, a Cup-born mist elven ChAoS kNiGhT... what an exciting combination! I truely hoped that I would be able to survive the early game with this fragile but fascinating being... but well, this is ADOM and she got smashed by a stone block rather quickly withing the infinite dungeon ;-)
This playlist with two episodes and 2699 turns is dedicated to her memory: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOdHNY3MGPaspPh57FME-s58nqZZ5D-Od

But like all of us ADOM veterans know, it's not that easy to stop ChAoS, so Pandora's younger twin sister Pandora II entered the Chain and I really hoped to see her survive a little longer. Well, that's what she did, but still not long enought to bring her adventures to a successful ending. Her death was a truely shocking experience.
This playlist with seventeen episodes and 32748 turns is dedicated to her memory: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOdHNY3MGPav6wtYxz5KU5JzEGsUexD9g&feature=edit_ok

So I am still waiting for my first victorious run on the new ADOM version... but I am sure that it will come!

[jt]

I just watched the beginning. I recommend that you delete the adom.cfg and adom.kbd files because you are missing some of the new features otherwise (like colored messages, blood splatters, etc.). :)

It's best to keep the mouse centered (or you can disable mouse scrolling completely if you want). Ctrl+m opens the NotEye menu which let's you configure additional settings. You can also easily switch to ASCII mode (and back) with the F10 key.

Looking forward to more videos! :)

[GordonOverkill]

Thanks, Jochen! Just deleted the files and I am already looking forward to even more new impressions during the next episode :-) Disabeling mouse scrolling seems like a very good idea especially when recording videos. A cursor in the center of the picture just doesn't look very nice.

Since I am not exactly aware of the developement of the closed prereleases, I will just name what comes to my mind inside this thread. If there's something among it that hasn't been mentioned yet, it would be cool if somebody could tell me ;-)

From this episode:

technics:
- the screen picture jumps to the very left map side after reaching a new level (for example at 13:19 minutes of the first episode)

graphics:
-sometimes there are walls to be seen where there actually are no walls. It seems as if there was a dead end, but when the character gets closer and can see further, this end just disappears. (for example at 20:33 minutes of the first epsiode, also in dark rooms, if I remember correctly).
- some items are rather hard to recognize on the ground. There were some situations when I didn't really reallize stuff like rocks on the ground (for example at 20:06 minutes of the first episode)

music:
- The deep 8th notes at the beginning of the level-up track create a very tense feeling, maybe a little too dramatic for this situation. When it first appeared, I just though "Wtf, boss enemy approaching?!" I'd maybe try something more "epic" and "heroic" (for example at 12:49 minutes of the first episode)

[Deathwind]

the screen jumping is your mouse on the left edge of the screen.

I can't see any issue at 20:33

alot of items ARE hard to recognize, it gets even worse when you have a pile of different items.

there are different level-up tracks depending on alignment, the N and C ones are a bit much in the early game but they fit much better at higher levels.

[GordonOverkill]

the screen jumping is your mouse on the left edge of the screen.

I can't see any issue at 20:33

alot of items ARE hard to recognize, it gets even worse when you have a pile of different items.

there are different level-up tracks depending on alignment, the N and C ones are a bit much in the early game but they fit much better at higher levels.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on the "mouse issue" ;-)
At 20:33 Rattatordon walks up a corridor to the north. When he is three squares away from the corner, he sees what looks like a dead end one square left of the corner. After he gets closer, the pseudo-dead end suddenly disappears and you see that the corridor just continues to the left.

[jt]

Yes, there are still some issues left in the tile mode.

[Ravenmore]

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on the "mouse issue" ;-)
At 20:33 Rattatordon walks up a corridor to the north. When he is three squares away from the corner, he sees what looks like a dead end one square left of the corner. After he gets closer, the pseudo-dead end suddenly disappears and you see that the corridor just continues to the left.

Yes, this is a known issue, NOTEye renders rooms and corridors based on what's explored so far and not what's really there. So if you only see part of a corridor NOTEye renders a "dead end" wall instead of continuing the corridor into the unexplored area. I hope Zeno can find a way around this without too much trouble :)

As for items, let me know which ones blend in too much and I'll see what I can do. I know that so far rocks, metal shields and all tiny objects (like rings/keys) have been mentioned as being too grey/small.

[Deathwind]

looking again I see a slight glitch with the upper tile on that corner but I tend to give such things a pass, it's trying to figure out what wall tile it needs with only # to work from.

[Stingray1]

You can maybe make your fontsize a bit bigger from the NotEye menu. Messages and stats are a bit small in your current fontsize. Yeah the scrolling also annoyed me, so I disabled that.

Deullists don't get their to-hit and damage bonuses, maybe even class power bonuses, when wielding anything but a one-handed weapon I believe? So, it's maybe best to not wield a shield. They also don't gain the bonuses when burdened or wearing heavy body-armour. You might want to go for the increased carrying capacity talents thus.

Also try to glimpse the mini-map from time to time( I realize it's difficult to take your eyes from the beautiful graphics ), it's easy to spot(rocks and other small ones) items in the minimap.

[Stingray1]

It doesn't look like you deleted the correct adom.cfg file. In windows it is in the documents folder.

Also to save your NotEye settings, open the NotEye menu (Ctrl-m or F8 also in your case) and press 's' to save changes. In your next episode you are going to be back to the original setting, so whenever you make a change in the NotEye menu that you like remember to save the changes.

The mouse-scrolling you disable by opening the menu, select 'm', then 'c', then 's', then set the value to 0(zero) and press enter to submit the change, then Esc. Remember to save the changes afterwards, otherwise it is only applicable during the current session.

P.S. Sabres are one of the new items. ;)

P.P.S. Tiny quarrels also have suffixes now. It is difficult for duelists to train missiles, as you know, but against certain monsters one is almost forced to employ missiles(as you know).

[Deathwind]

Blink dogs got buffed, you might need to rethink how you handle them.

[jt]

It doesn't look like you deleted the incorrect adom.cfg file. In windows it is in the documents folder.
Yes... it seems so. No blood and no colored messages. But maybe next time? ;)

You can check it by opening the "variables" with "=". You should see "Colored_Messages=true" and "Show_Blood=true" in the list.

[Stingray1]

Oh man, what an ugly typo I made. Anyway, what I wanted to say is, you might want to check the 'tactical mode' out. It is under 'ADOM-specific options' in the NotEye menu. For me at least, it helps with orientation.

Here is a sample of what it looks like:

2074

[GordonOverkill]

Thanks alot for your help and feedback :-)

Sabers are new indeed... how cool is that?! Already found a new item! :-)
I will try to sort out the scrolling and cfg. stuff untill the recording of tomorrows episode... can't wait to see the bloody details x-D
I also realized that these Blink Dogs were extremely tough... I surely didn't intend to use two prayers in this episode. However, I am sure teleport control is still a great thing to have! Still I don't think Rattatordon has many tactical alternatives at the moment. He does not own any wands or usefull potions yet and his missile skills are just abysmal.

One thing that I consider improvable from this episode: In the control+m menu the possible options are marked with a capital letter on the left side. But if I press the capital letter (shift+letter) nothing happens. I rather have to press the small letter instead. To me that was a little confusing at first and I'd suggest to at least allow both capital and small letters.

[GordonOverkill]

One thing that I'd like to know: Can you guys watch the first two episodes in full-screen mode? It doesn't work for me... just get a distorted small image on the top left screen. So I played the new episode in window more and now full-screen on youtube is no problem anymore. How does it look for you?

[Stingray1]

It was alright for me, but it is a little wider now.

Rattatordon was extremely lucky in the last episode. Melee-ing gelatinous cubes and gray oozes and not dying.


Applied several enhancements to bosses (and monsters in general).

I had a character take 127 damage from a gray ooze in the UD not too long ago.

Duelists can still use missiles, they just train it very slowly. They can also wield shields, which has some disadvantages for them, but not on the defensive side of things(e:until level 12, which is not too distant. :)).

Edit - I'm not trying to give contradictory advise, but weigh your options. The world you have become used to is not entirely as safe as it was. In the newer versions you have to avoid some fights much more than before. Well done on retreating in the end.

[BenMathiesen]

I know that so far rocks, metal shields and all tiny objects (like rings/keys) have been mentioned as being too grey/small.

I actually rather like the fact that small items might be missed in the gloom. It feels realistic.

Ben

[Singbird]

I won't be following this one as I don't want to be spoiled so much, but good luck on the run.

[GordonOverkill]

@Singbird:

Thanks! Wish you good luck and lots of fun with the new version, too!

@Stingray1:

Wow, didn't know that those oozes were that dangerous! I though the biggest danger was possible weapon destruction. I actually don't have a clue why I meleed that gelantinous cube... maybe the fact that it looks so different from the other "j"s distracted me somehow x-)
All in all I have got the feeling that this is a bloody exciting early game! Enjoy it alot, though I am permanently afraid that Rattatordon might pass away.

[Stingray1]

Sadly I won't be able to follow his continuing adventure either, it's costing me more in bandwidth than I can afford.

Best wishes and feel free to ask questions here, I will do my best to answer when I can.

I will watch the rest of the series when I'm in a better position to.

[GordonOverkill]

I'm sorry to hear that, not only because your feedback is always extremely helpful. I will try to do my very best anyway, so you can hopefully look forward to an exciting series as soon as you find the time to watch it!

[jt]

This "w"alk command problem looks really annoying, so I did some debugging. It seems that the scrolling does not happen if the mouse pointer is located on/near the border of the window. I guess you have moved it there so that it is not visible in the recording.

Here is a workaround which should fix the problem (it worked fine during my tests). Instead of using these NotEye settings



manual scrolling speed: 0
manual scrolling region width: 20%


please try the following



manual scrolling speed: 100
manual scrolling region width: 0%


I hope it works for you too. :)

[GordonOverkill]

Thanks alot, I'll directly try this in tomorrows episode!

e: works perfectly fine :-)

[GordonOverkill]

Just to mention it by the way, the tiles for the Pyramid are really beautiful! Just entered it for the first time and directly fell in love with the atmosphere... great job on that!

[Stingray1]

Yeah, it does look beautiful that floor, I must also compliment the team on that. Glad to hear Rattatordon is still going strong,

[GordonOverkill]

Glad to hear Rattatordon is still going strong,

Well... "going strong" is maybe not the best way to describe the latest episode ;-)

[GordonOverkill]

What I can already say by now is that duelists provide quite a challanging early game. At least my little guy here gets into trouble again and again, mainly because of his penalties with missile combat and lack of literacy (--> no identify and spells ... which became alot more relevant after the increased difficulty of the first dwarven quest). However, so far (lvl 15) it's definitely great fun to play!

[Stingray1]

If you are still looking for the first quest monster. All the monsters from the quest you can find in the levels leading to the High King's Tomb. His first quest does make the game a bit more interesting.

[GordonOverkill]

Bad news for all friends of Rattatordon. His adventure took a sad ending when the game crashed right after the start of todays episode :-( Rather scary because a minitue earlier I said that I hoped that episode 13 would not be an unlucky number.
Jochen, would you like to see the video of the crash? Then I would somehow have to disguise my desktop after the crash.

[jt]

Too bad, sorry to hear that. :(

What happened? Which were your last actions? Did you receive an error message? Some screenshots would help or at least the error message.

[GordonOverkill]

I had just restored the savegame and the game had been loaded for about a second. Did not do anything within the game and just started to talk a little when the crash happened. I will try to make a screenshot of the actual crash with the message when I am back home tonight.

[GordonOverkill]

In my eyes the error message seems not very illuminating:

"adom.exe funktioniert nicht mehr

Es wird nach einer Lösung für das Problem gesucht"

Directly after the crash the screen faded from the ADOM screen to the desktop, so for a blink of an eye the transparent ADOM screen and the desktop could be seen together. Also I checked the video for keyboard-noises and it seems that I definitely not press any key after restoring the save file.

[jt]

Well, that is a crash message generated by Windows, so it was probably caused by an illegal memory access. There is no way that ADOM could do an emergency save in this situation. :(

It could be related to this issue (http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=2449), but you were standing right beneath the stairs without any special tile/item (on the last video). Very odd. :(

The game crashed directly after loading, you could see the level with tiles and no message was shown on the top?

[GordonOverkill]

Don't think it was the linked issue. Like I said, after loding I definitely didn't press any key.
When it crashed Rattatordon stood on the very same square where the last episode had ended. The game crashed about two seconds after loading. Before the crash I could see the whole screen, just as it should be. The only message on top was the level message: "These caverns almost seem to be endless. Images of books and comfortable chairs line the walls. (more)" Maybe the special room has something to do with it? Could keep that in mind if something simmilar should be reported in the future.

[jt]

Ok, then it was the linked issue. The "(more)" prompt caused the problem. Damn... sorry again. :(

I hope you are not discouraged to start with a new game!? :)

Maybe we should release a patch for Prerelease 18 that fixes this and the other crash bug in the death menu!?

[GordonOverkill]

No need to apologize, in the end you are the guys who are responsible for my favourite video game ;-)
I will definitely start a new series... mist elven chaos knight maybe? At first I will play a run of FTL in order to get a little distance to the Rattatordon series. A successful run would take eight days, so in about a week I'll head back into the Drakalor chain!
I guess a patch to fix these crashes would be very nice. It's always a little frustrating to lose a promising character this was... even more for new players who generally have a harder time keeping their characters alive.

[Stingray1]

Maybe we should release a patch for Prerelease 18 that fixes this and the other crash bug in the death menu!?

It would be great if the public could also play with the fixed attribute potentials that TB worked on recently. I don't like to speak for others, but I don't think people with prerelease access would mind if the public gets access to 'bugfixed' prereleases.

[Stingray1]

I just watched Rattatordon's ordeal in the pyramid, a small tip when fighting things like karmic dragons: Don't stand square with them against a wall, remember they can also breathe lightning and lightning bounces off walls. Hitting your character twice with one breath.

[GordonOverkill]

Very good tip! Thanks, Stingray!

[Singbird]

Wow, sorry to hear about the shitty ending. The only death that's not funny even in retrospect. Hopefully the next one will go well. I have to say though that pre18 has not crashed on me yet, so don't be discouraged to start a new series. Maybe some fun challenge game? Like get the Sceptre of Chaos or don't use attribute modifying items or something.

[Stingray1]

Wow, sorry to hear about the shitty ending. The only death that's not funny even in retrospect. Hopefully the next one will go well. I have to say though that pre18 has not crashed on me yet, so don't be discouraged to start a new series. Maybe some fun challenge game? Like get the Sceptre of Chaos or don't use attribute modifying items or something.

Yeah, one must just take care not to save the game in a spot where restoring it will result in a long message that requires a (more) prompt, for the moment.

Regarding the Sceptre:

GordonOverkill did hint at playing a Chaos Knight and they are meant to retrieve the sceptre anyway. :p

[jt]

It would be great if the public could also play with the fixed attribute potentials that TB worked on recently. I don't like to speak for others, but I don't think people with prerelease access would mind if the public gets access to 'bugfixed' prereleases.
Yes, there will be a public Prerelease 19 shortly.

[Stingray1]

Just watched the 1st half of your new series' 1st episode. Don't fear ChAoS is POWER. Use it to your advantage.

The unholy aura is an especially usefull one for a mist elf. Use it to detect traps!

P.S. Also if you get pickpockets to around 30 you can succesfully pick non-hostiles on your 1st or 2nd attempt. Towns and the arena has a good supply of these.

P.P.S. You can also use unholy aura to create non-hostiles. ;)

[GordonOverkill]

Thanks, Stingray, but I am afraid Pandora already had a painfull meeting with a stoneblock today :-(
Anyway, her younger sister Pandora II already entered the Drakalor Chain in order to finish the unfinished business. I will upload the first video when I am back home tonight. Have you maybe also got an idea how to use stiff muscles to your advantage? x-)

[Stingray1]

Stiff Muscles gives nice bonusses to Strength and PV. :) My current chaos knight also has it, although she is a Troll and maybe doesn't need to run away as often as a mist elf might have to. Speed(e: there is a nice bonus at lvl12, IIRC) and companions are recommended. What are the other 3 corruptions?

Regarding Chaos knights' "game plan":

Also, did you plan to dive the ID with the 1st Pandorra? I actually also considered it, but as a Troll is doing UD 1st. The deep ID is pretty dangerous and one should maybe leave it for a bit later.

[GordonOverkill]

Next to stiff muscles Pandora II has got one large eye, a babbling mouth on her forhead (already gave her a casting of light) and a tentacle mouth... she truely looks beautiful with both charisma and appearance 1 x-D She started her adventure with a dive into the small cave/unremarkable dungeon, where she managed to reach experience level 5 and get 34 Hitpoints... still not really save, but I am used to less ;-) Her biggest advantage is an extremely nice PV of 20.
Do you maybe know how good ChAoS kNiGhTs are at casting spells? Pandora II has got Learning 26 and Mana 29... would be too bad if she could not make any use of that.
Talking about companions, I really consider using necromancy to get myself a nice undead meatshield.

Pandora 1st tried to dive down to ID 9 in order to get some equipment and experience before entering the Caverns of Chaos. She never got that far because she got into trouble and tried to retreat from a tough foe. On her retreat she stept onto this fatal trap. Too bad, with her speed and specialising on missiles she would surely have got some momentum if she had survived a little longer.

[Stingray1]

Those are some great corruptions, babbling mouth might give her some emergency spells if the tentacles(unfortunately) don't interfere and also train her concentration as a bonus. Tentacles has a nice DX bonus IIRC, that might help her dodge some attacks even magical ones. You might want to consider raising Alertness as soon as possible. With the one eye it's probably best that she does not wear headgear that way she will have an awesome sight distance to run if needed.

I struggled to get lvl 50 hurtling CKs learn spells, but a mist elf will no doubt be a little better at it, most of her spell knowledge will probably come from the mouth on her forehead.

White necromancy do not create undead slaves.
Edit - With a charisma of 1 her slaves won't really listen to her, but they can atleast be pushed down corridors to maybe detect traps, although a fireball trap will still kill her. Elemental resistances are very important obviously.

Edit - Whoa, Pandorra II is a beast, 22 strength. I would have crowned in the SMC, but that's me, me is crazy like that. Don't set your mind on losing stiff muscles, it will most likely not happen. As I've said at lvl 12 she will get a massive speed bonus then stiff muscles will not be so bad. Oh, yeah Chaos knights are very haughty, but they do sometimes bow to their master and ask for help.

[GordonOverkill]

Once again big thanks for your hints, Stingray!
I already gave Alertness very high priority. Acutally I can more or less increase each and every halfway interesting skill with her Learning score :-)
Good to know that Necromancy is maybe not the best option. I really did never ever use that skill so far.
Crowning in the SMC would have been a little too risky for my taste, though it seemed quite attractive to me, too ;-) But then I though that I had already lost one char on that day... I enjoy the game most when I really try my very best to keep my characters alive, especially those underdogs. With a girl as slow as Pandora II I would have been afraid to meet a tough guy that I couldn't have run away from.
I will try to keep my prayers in the back of my mind. After the death of the first Pandora, I also thought that maybe I should have prayed at one point. Just didn't think of that during the action.

[Stingray1]

White necromancy is not completely useless for a mist elf, it is almost a must for some of them. It is just that Pandora II's Charisma is so shit they won't listen to her commands, I think. As I've noted they can still be used to detect traps in corridors at least and maybe keep a dangerous foe busy while Pandora makes a run for it, or is it stroll away. :p

[GordonOverkill]

One guys said on a youtube comment that - being chaotic - Pandora II would maybe use the "traditional" kind of black necromancy. Just in case, would that be any more helpful?

[Stingray1]

According to the manual mist elves hate undead, so I assume even mist elf chaos knights will create white necromantic slaves. I unfortunately don't remember what alignment my mist elf was that used necromancy to answer assuredly and I don't read spoilers if I can help it, so sorry for the lack of information in this regard from me.

Maybe try it and see. :)

Edit - Oh wait, I remember now it was a west side neutrally aligned archer. So still can't say for sure what a chaotic one will create.

[GordonOverkill]

I think that's what I'll do... hehe, I was recently joshed by my younger brother because I play all my chars like archers. He said it was rediculous that my game-winning necromancer never ever applied necromancy, so I guess it's really time for me to change this ;-)

By the way, my first impressions of both new classes are quite positive. They both provide rather exciting early games with alot of challange and original feeling. Looking forward to see how they play in the mid to late game!

[Stingray1]

My Trollish CK is at level 8 in bows already and level 3 in pole-arms. :o She kills most everything at range before they have a chance to get into melee range. and that is with stiff muscles. :p Guilty of abusing missiles I am too, but hey it works, so why the heck not.

[GordonOverkill]

According to the manual mist elves hate undead, so I assume even mist elf chaos knights will create white necromantic slaves. I unfortunately don't remember what alignment my mist elf was that used necromancy to answer assuredly and I don't read spoilers if I can help it, so sorry for the lack of information in this regard from me.

Maybe try it and see. :)

Edit - Oh wait, I remember now it was a west side neutrally aligned archer. So still can't say for sure what a chaotic one will create.

I tried it out and she actually created a zombie! Seems that the hatred for undead is only present withing lawful and neutral mist elves.

[Stingray1]

I'll accept that as the manual also states that they sometimes dabble in chaotic things from boredom or something along those lines. :)

7000+ years is a long time.

[GordonOverkill]

Hmmm, maybe you guys can help me with another thing. At about 9:40 of the current video I try to get a cave tiger caught in webs, but it absolutely and completely fails. After the very round the web spell was cast, there does not even appear a message that he shrug of the webs or whatever, he just walks through them again and again. Not sure, did I do anything wrong or were maybe the mechanics of the spell changed?

[Stingray1]

Yes, webs now only sometimes 'catch' monsters. Without a message of them not getting caught, you will get a message though if they do get stuck. If you had been persistent with leading it into the web it would have eventually got stuck.

[GordonOverkill]

Thanks, that's very good to know for... say... a possible fight against the cat lord.

[jt]

You found the blood filled room, nice. ;)

[GordonOverkill]

And it looks absolutely scary :-o If she was not a horrible being of ChAoS herself, I don't think that Pandora II would have dared to enter the room.

[Stingray1]

I must say, for a moment there I thought that Clay Statue went on a rampage in there. :)

[GordonOverkill]

Haha, so did I! x-D

[GordonOverkill]

Hmmm, so far Pandora II summoned three Zombies during her adventures, still her Mana stat increased (!) by three points in comparison to the beginning. Wasn't necromancy ment to abuse the stat? As far as I can tell, she did nothing else that could have trained it.

[Stingray1]

Black Necromancy takes away 1 or 2 Mana points depending on the type of undead created, IIRC. It doesn't train it negatively, just takes away the point or two when you use the skill. Mana is trained by casting spells. Pandorra II has cast a few spells thus far. The more PP you spend on casting per casting the more it trains Mana. All her castings expended all her PP, so that was quite some training of the stat.

[GordonOverkill]

Ah, I see! Thanks, totally forgot about that corruption ;-) She has even got a casting of Deathray... I am wondering if she will ever make use of it...

[Stingray1]

You must take care with that corruption, you might accidentily kill her with it. I have noticed you pressing keys rather quickly without reading any text while fighting tension rooms etc. A lighning bolt or so aimed in the wrong direction can be very deadly.

[magpie]

Black Necromancy takes away 1 or 2 Mana points depending on the type of undead created, IIRC. It doesn't train it negatively, just takes away the point or two when you use the skill. Mana is trained by casting spells. Pandorra II has cast a few spells thus far. The more PP you spend on casting per casting the more it trains Mana. All her castings expended all her PP, so that was quite some training of the stat.

Using necromancy gives your character a net gain in Mana, over time - I have gotten some Necromancers up to truly ridiculous Mana scores just by creating undead.

[Stingray1]

Using necromancy gives your character a net gain in Mana, over time - I have gotten some Necromancers up to truly ridiculous Mana scores just by creating undead.

Interesting, did you never cast any spells with those Necromancers?

[GordonOverkill]

It's fits my experience at least. Just rechecked... Pandora II got a total minus of four points due to zombie creation, but that was more than compensated by a total plus seven, resulting in a netto gain of three. Seven increases would be quite alot after five spells cast by the mouth, right?

And of course you are right about the danger of those random spells... Don't deathrays also bounce? Luckily I paid attention when that one was cast.

[Stingray1]

It does bounce. I haven't practiced much necromancy myself, my statement regarding that is mostly from what I remember from the manual. So, magpie might be correct.

Edit - Although 5 complete PP castings is enough to give you 7 Mana points from my observations.

[GordonOverkill]

I will keep my eyes open for a chance to test it... thought about getting rid of the tentacles corruption anyway ;-)

[Stingray1]

Well, getting rid of both corruptions is a bit countering the point of having the babbling mouth? Also I forgot to mention, I read in one of the comments on your youtube channel that mist elves can also create skeletons and I heard you saying that you don't need bones. If that is true you might actually have a use for bones.

Although there will probably come a time when Pandorra II won't be needing any slaves no more.

Edit - Just watched the latest video, I hope no-one spoil it for you too much. Are you absolutely certain chaotic mist elves cannot use clay? I'm not saying they can, just wondering. My poor Trollish Chaos lady encountered 3 rivers thus far, 1 in UD, 1 above big room and 1 above graveyard(5 wide). She's had to pray 5 times already just from crossing these. So, I feel your pain.

[GordonOverkill]

Hmmm, reading my message again, I honestly don't have a clue what was going on in my head x-) Getting rid of the tentacles would of course not change anything at all when it comes to the Mana stat.
So you can create skelletons by applying necromancy on bones? That's great to know! Definitely gonna try it :-) I will also check out what happens if I apply it on the clay, good idea!
I guess, Pandora will have no choice but to swim though the river. She has still got one prayer left and she owns a waterproof blanket, so she and her equipment should at least get to the other side alive.
All the best to your unlucky Trollish LaDy! Maybe she is just saving her good luck for the truely important moments ;-)

[Stingray1]

No, the bones aren't used to create skeletons. It is going better now, have converted an altar on UC:5 and found 2 wands of cold and glass amulet already and am at lvl 12. So, getting 5 artifacts and pickaxe and one immunity is very near.

Edit - Although there is a gorgon on UC:2 that I am extremely scared of with stiff muscles, know what pots of invisibility look like luckily, just to find one.

[magpie]

I cast a few spells, but didn't have a lot with that character. That's why I relied on undead so heavily.

I am doing this by comparison - I have had end-game wizards who used magic continuously, who never got anything like the amount of Mana that that mid-game Necromancer had.

I'm certain of it - using Necromancy gives a short-term loss of Mana for a long-term gain in Mana. Pretty sure it's 3 gained for 2 lost, but that's over time (at stat gains or level ups) - so over short amounts of time, it might not be a good idea to turn every humanoid corpse into an undead.

What I am not certain of is that using Necromancy also increases your stat potential in Mana, or just increases it to the maximum over time. I think it does increase your stat potential, but I'm not sure about that.

[magpie]

Necromancers use bones by 'giving' them to skeleton companions to heal them. Might be worth stock-piling in order to keep your awesome (quickling queen, fire giant king, ...) skeleton warriors healed up.

[jt]

You can easily switch between tiles and ASCII with the F10-key (in case you need to find an exact location). I also noted down an "illogical message" I noticed during eposde 7.

[GordonOverkill]

Thanks, magpie and Jochen! I'll try to keep both hints in mind! Not sure if I will continue making excessive use of necromancy, though. Especially these extremely tough undead you spoke of are a little threatening to me ;-)

[Stingray1]

I hope she doesn't get Mana Battery. [:eek:] Knocking the wood.

[Stingray1]

Very unlucky there with the wand, a similar thing once happened to me in the HMV. I was stupid enough to still teleport to inside the room. That character had a very lonely death.

[GordonOverkill]

Oh my god, that's horrible! Poor character being trapped within this room, screaming for help, slowly going insane, finally starving to death :-(

[Stingray1]

It is painful to watch her not apply first aid and then walk around with her HP in the 20s. That scroll of danger is very valuable and rare.

[GordonOverkill]

You are absolutely right! Crossing two doors with 20 HP was kind of reckless indeed. Using first aid is just not part of my automated program, I'll try to change that.

[Stingray1]

Yes, as you've heard one can recover heaps of HP with First Aid now, costing no items or piety.

Just another tip that I feel I should maybe give you, if you don't know it already. If she ever gets stuck with a impure cursed piece of equipment and has no material means to get it off, Andor is there to assist. Not that I believe she will blindly equip items, although she has. The lesson has probably been learned. ;)

[Stingray1]

Just a few things to consider. Traps are random now. The Ghost Librarian only gives the Weird Tome to PCs with Stealth of 100, Babbling Mouth makes Stealth impossible. With Tentacled mouth she doesn't have any reliable emergency spells(Ethereal Bridge). Don't worry too much about food, food is very abundant now, since the item generation rate has been increased. Ratling traders are obsolete. Moss of Mareilon can still increase her Dx by 5 points.

ChAoS=POWER.

[GordonOverkill]

Thanks, Stingray! Yeah, I already found out about the random traps during Pandora's trip to the VDDL. Also I am already aware of the tentacle-issue. Damn, you are right about the library... I'd really love to get rid of the tentacle mouth, though... I've never tried the Minotaur Maze, maybe that's worth a visit?
Good to know about the Moss... so can I now actually train up to the potential maximum without a cap at 25?

One thing that I thought while recording this episode is that maybe some work should be done on the detect monster spell. On the mini map it was really hard to even recognize the monster type (though the quality was at least better than it now looks on youtube). Maybe when casting the spell the screen could somehow zoom into the mini-map/ASCII screan and remain so untill a key is pressed? Something like that would be quite helpfull, I guess. Same with detect item maybe?

[jt]

You can switch to ASCII mode (and back) any time you want. It's a Noteye command, so it does not count as a game command in ADOM.

[GordonOverkill]

Aaah, okay! So I could have switched without my monster detection disappearing?

[Stingray1]

Good to know about the Moss... so can I now actually train up to the potential maximum without a cap at 25?

If I am not mistaken herbs ignore the modifiers from corruption now.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

Ratling traders are obsolete
I wouldn't say as much. Yes, there is more than enough food from other sources, but you have to lug it around (in case you get a bad streak of corpse generation and you can't eat from the ground for a while). Ratling food is still much lighter than rations.

[jt]

Aaah, okay! So I could have switched without my monster detection disappearing?

Yes, exactly. :)

[LFk]

I didn't want to make a new thread for something minor and amusing, so I figured the "Let's Play!" thread is good enough for this.

I finally caved and settled on a playthrough or two of the new in-progress ADOM, which I deliberately ignored while it was in development. I wanted to see the final product all at once, but it's been a while so...

A few thoughts I had, from someone who completely ignored ADOM since the campaign ended, and attempting not to spoil myself too much:
1) I kind of wish the new items weren't so sword-heavy. I see rapiers and sabres and short swords of higher metals, not to mention some new spears that I assume are pole arms. Swords (there are so many) and Polearms (DV bonuses) were the most commonly used weapon classes as it stood, and it would've been nice to give some love to the lesser used weapon categories.
2) I (semi)frequently see the imminent of blood chilling threat message. I finally decided to wiki what it meant, and allegedly a boss monster is supposed to spawn when that message happens. They don't. I even used a wand of monster detection to confirm this. The only boss monster i've seen thus far was generated without the threat message - Krabs or something. He was a Dark Sage.
3) I really dig the random traps. On the one hand, it was a great tool I've used in the past, but on the other hand, it's a far less predictable situation now, which is nice.
4) Hugo followed me down the stairs to D:32, and made a beeline for the middle of the map. He's now standing there, guarding an arbitrary tile. Screenshot below.
2082

5) Didn't even get a new corruption! Dang. All my corruptions throughout the game were the old ones.
6) I like some of the rebalancing done, but on the whole I didn't really feel it. I see the herbs stopped raising my stats after a natural capping, which seems fair.
7) The Casino corrupted me when I was trying to get the gold I needed to grab what I wanted from the shop, but 1 corruption in exchange for grabbing an eternium tower shield, a dragon scale mail, my first pair of 7LBs, and a heap of other goodies was a small price to pay anyway.

Overall, I see and feel some of the differences, but thus far it has very much felt the same as 1.1.1, minus some of the more scummy attributes, and plus a few new items. I may have missed a lot by not rolling a Chaos Knight, I may try that next. I also am willing to give the NotEye version a spin, but I don't play ADOM for the graphics :) The polish is definitely very welcome, and while there are still bugs, I approve of things such as the infinite casino gold mine and dragon doubling being removed from the game.

The random R/C I played (Cup/gnomish elementalist) was powerful enough to where he just plowed through the game without an overabundance of luck. I may see how the Chaos Knight plays! I'm definitely excited to at least get a look at some of the new corruptions.

[Stingray1]

The boss not appearing when the blood-chilling threat message does has been reported and we're waiting on the fix, I think maybe only TB can fix it and he's still busy with the paper RPG, I believe. Hugo following you down the stairs has also been reported. ChAoS kNiGhT are fun and different to play. Have fun.

P.S. After looking at your screenshot, you know that you can play in fullscreen, right?

[Stingray1]

Damn, you are right about the library... I'd really love to get rid of the tentacle mouth, though... I've never tried the Minotaur Maze, maybe that's worth a visit? Ignore the library if you want, there are at least ratling fodder and some scrolls, the mino maze's reward is worth it.

Edit - Taking the Skeletal King on without fire resistance is suicide. My Trollish CK had 350 HP and died because she had no fire resistance.

[GordonOverkill]

Edit - Taking the Skeletal King on without fire resistance is suicide. My Trollish CK had 350 HP and died because she had no fire resistance.

Should have read this earlier! First time I met the Skeletal Uberking and really missed the nice and relaxed bone guy from 1.1.1 x-D

[Stingray1]

:p Luckily her Alertness and speed is pretty good, so she was able to dodge most of its magic balls.

Wrt that awesome corruption she just received: Let me put it this way, if she decides to crown now she has a 50% chance to get shock immunity. If she gets hit, there is a chance her acid blood can splatter the enemies eyes and blind it.

It is the sulphuric breath corruption that allows for spitting acidic blobs.

[GordonOverkill]

Wow, I really mixed the corruptions up! Acid blood is awsome indeed... might actually be a reason to give up my intention to get rid of the first corruptions ;-)
Btw., just rewatched the episode and saw that Pandora II still has got one casting of Ethereal Bridge availible... coulde have saved her from alot of trouble, but it's also good to know for the future. Also in the heat of the action I did not see the potion of booze in her inventory. Not quite sure what to do next... guess if I really accept all my corruptions, I could as well go for a chaotic crowning right now... at least a better weapon would be very nice! Hehe, and I needn't be afraid to get stiff muscles! x-D

[Stingray1]

How were you planning on getting rid of the corruptions?

[GordonOverkill]

Not quite sure, to be honest. Would have needed a wand of teleportation to get the scroll in the high mountain village. Also thought about trying if Guth'Alak gives me a potion in exchange for the corpse of the Snake from Beyond. If these two were enough to get rid of the babbeling mouth, the library would have become an option. So my "plan" was to cross the animated forest and do some exploration down to the water temple. Now with a fifth corruption that's not possible anymore, I think, and somehow the acid blood is almost too cool to remove ;-) So at the moment I tend to go for a crowning tomorrow and hope for fire immunity and a better weapon... that would surely help alot!
I also think alot about avoiding long overland travels, which suck extremely with stiff muscles. So I thought about getting back down tomorrow, lure the Skeletal King to the level above, teleport to the downstairs and get the ring before I leave. On the other hand, if I will go for the Minotaur Maze later, it would be no problem to combine this with a short visit to the Tomb.

[Stingray1]

I take it you haven't tried giving Guth'Alak a corrupted corpse with a C character before.

Ideally the game must be won before day 90, is my tip of the day. Keep one set of fire making tools is another tip. So 2 tips.

P.S. My latest CK attempt could learn spells from uncursed books when she was at xp lvl 40, Le 46, Literacy 100 and did not have Concentration. She struggled a very little bit with things like Major Punishment, but there was no ill-effects, just a few 'you fail to reads'. Teleportation is so ridiculously expensive to cast now, that it's not worth the effort in all honesty. 3 tips. :)

[GordonOverkill]

You're right. This is actually the very first time I play a chaotic character and to not try to convert as quick as possible.

I guess spellcasting might be an amazing option! So it's decided that Pandora will leave the westside for the moment and come back later for Skeletal King, library and maze! Next destination depends on her crowning gift ;-)

[Stingray1]

Actually getting the ring after crowning would not be a bad idea, it does give some resistances. I suppose the decision does depend upon which immunity and artifact she receives.

Edit - Oh wait, doesn't platinum count as iron. Also, even if it is mist elves can safely wear one iron ring.

It was fealt that the distance between 'very close' and 'absolutely/extremely close' was big, so two standings were added in between. So, we could know better how far we are away from our deities.

Wow, stepping on that altar with stiff muscles and not getting sacced was very fortunate. Your heart must have skipped a beat then.

[LFk]

The boss not appearing when the blood-chilling threat message does has been reported and we're waiting on the fix, I think maybe only TB can fix it and he's still busy with the paper RPG, I believe. Hugo following you down the stairs has also been reported. ChAoS kNiGhT are fun and different to play. Have fun.

P.S. After looking at your screenshot, you know that you can play in fullscreen, right?


I generally choose to play in window form. I've always been content with the way ADOM is displayed, small, compact, and ASCII. I see that the graphical improvements are very well done and a big perk to some, but for me, this isn't the game I need it.

I finished up that elementalist game with an ordinary gate closure. After getting very little NPC cooperation off my first Chaos Knight, I went and read the wiki pages on what Chaos Knights are all about, because I'm very unaccustomed to going without typical starting setup. Pretty rough, though the class itself seems exceptionally powerful.

I've never managed to do an OCG in all the time I've played ADOM (or any ultra aside from ULE for that matter). I wonder if anyone has done an OCG so far in 1.2, and especially with Chaos Knight? The class setup seems to make this particularly challenging, but thematically appropriate. I feel like this might be one of the first things I try when the final, stable ADOM 1.2 is released.

[Stingray1]

I wonder if anyone has done an OCG so far in 1.2, and especially with Chaos Knight? The class setup seems to make this particularly challenging, but thematically appropriate. I feel like this might be one of the first things I try when the final, stable ADOM 1.2 is released.

I recall one posted shortly after Chaos Knights were introduced. I failed early this morning inside the palace. I feel that if I left it for tonight, I might have succeeded. You know, one's judgement isn't always perfect at 1 o'clock in the morning.

@GordonOverkill What Robert Ling said on youtube. Don't forget.

[Stingray1]

Wow, that is a great halberd and Pandora is already trained in pole-arms. :) The staff I don't know, but that +16 to Wi can be only beneficial vs confusion attacks. Awesome immunity too, now the only elemental threat is lightning. Unless the staff grants that, that would be hilarious, but maybe wishful thinking from me. :)

Noticed that her potential is lower than her actual Toughness, so that bug is still present.

[GordonOverkill]

Seems so, at least in prerelease 19. How is it ment to work without bug? If the actual stat value is decreased below the potential maximum (for example due to corruption), should one be able to increase it then? Don't want to exploit any bugs, so I will not do any additional herb training if it's not ment to work.
I checked that staff on the wiki. Willpower, fire immunity, resistance to cold, death, shock and confusion. Since cold and death are already covered by ancient mummy wrapping and she is already immune to fire, it might eventually end as rattling fodder. On the other hand it might become very handy if Pandora should learn a ball spell in the future... we'll see!

[Stingray1]

Her current Willpower is 10, that is pretty crap. The +16 and confusion might come in very handy in some future fights, so think carefully, there is going to be more than enough ratling fodder. When you want train a stat now you must look at the current value, the first column. It must be below 25 and not equal to or with the bug above the potential maximum. Ignore corruptions that reduce a stat, that has been nerfed out.

The bug is the fact that sometimes your current value is higher than your potential value, I don't think any exploits is possible because of this. So, no need to be too much concerned.

I just looked at her stats again, she can still train Wi by 2 and Dx by 5 using herbs.

[Deathwind]

Just got to watching Pandora II, you know you can give orders to your undead hordes with ctrl-o, right?

edit: just to warn you, the skeletal king is not unique, I've seen them spawn towards the lower CoC.
edit2: you know you've already killed a cat, that door trap counted.
edit3: silver IS higher metal (you have been wearing a ring of protection almost the entire run) but once you take the gloves off your IRON crossbow is burning you.

[Stingray1]

:( Equipping her crowning gift, would have saved her.

[_Ln_]

Just one question - what the hell were you doing in the Tomb anyway (I could have missed that of course)? The Eternal Guardian doesn't let chaotic chaos knights through even if they have the ring. And ring is quite useless otherwise (except for shock resistance I guess :D)

EDIT: Also, damn, 80hp? Bloody suicide.

[GordonOverkill]

@_Ln_: Well, these youtube runs were so far my very first and only experiences with chaos knights, so I actually had no clue about that eternal-guardian-issue ;-)

@Stingray: Oh my god, you are so absolutely right! I was already a little disappointed that I didn't think of using these rats as meatshield and wretching a last casting out of my wand of acid, but your solution is so much easier... stupid, stupid, stupid me! :-(

@Deathwind: I actually did not know about the giving-orders-function! Thanks, that's surely good to know! Also thanks for the explanation about the rings!

[Stingray1]

Maybe, you should do a fated run again Gordon, so you can get accustomed to all the changes? Who knows maybe fate brings an AoLS. :)

[GordonOverkill]

I think so, too! Fate runs are my favourites, anyway!
I've also still got a complete series recorded of a certain Lithium run on prerelease 5... rumors say that it probably may have been successful ;-) I think that I will upload that at a later time, so there will be something nice to watch for the ADOM maniacs while I play some other game (definitely want to do dwarf fortress or dominions 4 rather soon).

[Stingray1]

Well, if that is indeed true, Congratulations. Doing that challenge successfully moves one into a new dimension of thinking and doing things with less. I'll also be looking forward to the YAVP or YASD. :p I enjoy reading about ADOM adventures almost as much as watching them.

[GordonOverkill]

Just encountered a small technical issue on prerelease 20: When my char picked up a ring in the shop of the high mountain village, suddenly the walking-animations disapeared. After I left the high mountain village, everything was suddenly back to normal.

[jt]

Maybe it was a "ring of stop bouncing"? Just kidding. ;)

Did it effect all monsters or just the PC?

[GordonOverkill]

All monsters, and it was a ring of luck ;-)