getting a Wand of Frost

[magpie]

In some ways, I know a lot about this game, and in some ways I'm pretty ignorant.

Some of you 133t types out there, please help me out on this:

I'm ready to hit the ToEF with my orc barbarian, but I am currently at the cavernous level below the Tomb of the High King, and I have no way across the lake. I have ground out a wand of frost here before, but it's not happening for me this game.

Where would be the best place for me to grind out a wand of frost?

(I could go do the ToEF now, but I want to do this first and then hit the ToEF on the way back to the main dungeon.)

[hq3473]

1. Guth'Alak gives you one if you complete his quest.
2. Try the rift for frost bolt book
3. Use bridge building skill instead

[Stingray1]

4. Some monsters also have cold attacks.

[magpie]

Ah, thanks for your suggestions.


1. Guth'Alak gives you one if you complete his quest.

Already did the Healer quest. In retrospect, I should have done the druid quest, but I wanted Healing to minimise the healing I need to use from other sources early.


2. Try the rift for frost bolt book

Ha ha. I'm an Orc Barbarian. I have a book of Frost Bolt already, it's teleported me once and drained my health another time.


3. Use bridge building skill instead

Oh god, no. Lugging all those logs all that way? My skill is only about 30 or so.


4. Some monsters also have cold attacks.

Yeah, I know, after nearly being frozen to death 3 separate times before I got a source of see invisible and cold resistance. This is probably the best bet, if I find an ogre mage or ice vortex in the cavernous levels.

But I still think the wand is the best option in this case. Where would be the best place to grind one out? I have plenty of booze to charge it with.

[boat]

I was in the same situation previously, I farmed the infinite dungeon. I wasn't too deep, levels 3-7. Good luck!

[Stingray1]

Well, if you have a wand of wonder and plenty of booze you could try your luck with that and then bookcast it if you have enough PP+HP and recover the lost stats with morgia.

Mana and Wi stat raised max PP. Strenght, Wi and To raise max HP

There is a certain guaranteed artifact armour that grants immunity to cold, did you not collect it?

Wands of cold aren't extremely common, sorry I don't know item DLs nor care about them.

[Overheat]

The Ancient Mummy Wrapping gives you both See Invisible and Cold Immunity, so Ogre Magi shouldn't be a problem in the future. ;)


I usually leave the Healing/Herbalism choice as long as possible, until I find a wand of cold. Candle stands in for healing (mostly) and herbs are not nearly as powerful now.

[JellySlayer]

If you get your health to ~1000, you can just swim across the lake...

[GordonOverkill]

I usually just leave out the TotH if I don't get access to a cold spell in time. I am quite sure that the danger level needn't be too high, so I guess you'd best go to a place with little background corruption in order to grind for the wand. But maybe finding a monster to help you would be the better option.

[SirTheta]

If you get your health to ~1000, you can just swim across the lake...First you have to train rocks high enough to take down the door with a huge rock and kill the skeletal king from a distance, though ;)

[_Ln_]

If you get your health to ~1000, you can just swim across the lake...

"Your square key is broken and thus useless."
"Which direction [1-9]?" 7
"You absorb the mana contained in the uncursed wand of knocking (3 charges)."
"Nothing happens."

[JellySlayer]

You can open the door with the wand of knocking before you start swimming.

[anon123]

If you have on-demand controlled teleportation, and sources of darkness, water breathing (or a ring of the fish) and invisibility (highly recommended), you can try raiding the underwater cave in hopes of spawning a wand of cold.

[Mobius]

If you get your health to ~1000, you can just swim across the lake...

Have folks actually done that?
I've once dipped in the lake, and I swear it took hundreds of HP in one go. Like 400.

I suppose with 1000, you can jump in, move, heal,
move, heal, move heal.
Have to use the water orb, with elemental gauntlets

Oh, I suppose I forgot who I'm talking to. Somebody surely has done it.

[magpie]

Quick update: I found a white baby dragon, and it was killed by an acid vortex that spawned right near the steps down to the Tomb. :mad:

Speaking of exploiting a cold-breathing/producing monster, how does it actually work? I've never done it before. When a player casts Frost Bolt, you need to cast once, step onto the ice bridge, cast again ... but it occurs to me it'll be really difficult to get a white dragon (for example) to do this. Do monster Frost Bolts work differently in freezing water into an ice bridge?

[Stingray1]

In my experience babies is no good, their breath is too short, only 1 tile. Ogres usually only cast their attack at range, so I usually just run around the lake and move in towards the tomb until I can reach the door. Remember about the weight restriction of frozen water. With a vortex you'll have to cast darkness on the stairs and hope it doesn't explode there already then lure it to where you are directly south of the door( I think, I sometimes mess this up myself and have to get another).

[_Ln_]

Quick update: I found a white baby dragon, and it was killed by an acid vortex that spawned right near the steps down to the Tomb. :mad:

Speaking of exploiting a cold-breathing/producing monster, how does it actually work? I've never done it before. When a player casts Frost Bolt, you need to cast once, step onto the ice bridge, cast again ... but it occurs to me it'll be really difficult to get a white dragon (for example) to do this. Do monster Frost Bolts work differently in freezing water into an ice bridge?

Ice-breathing monsters do not freeze water at all, event ancient white dragons. Only ogre magi and ice vortices can help you.

[magpie]

OK, I'm taking the easy (if boring) way out.

I'm just going to ID:9 and will stay there, going up and down as required, until a DL 3 Wand of Frost drops.

Ordinarily, I am very against grinding in this manner (it's boring!), but this character can easily go all the way, and I want to give him the best possible chance to. Future corruptions (so far I've only got 1, 'thin and nimble') are very much in my mind, since that's what has usually ended my late-game melee characters with bad Literacy.

This should work eventually, right?

[Stingray1]

Yeah, eventually. You could up your chances a bit by also picking pockets. It all sounds so tedious. UC is pretty corrupting and I:9-10 not. Best of luck anyway.

[Blasphemous]

I was desperate once and decided to build the bridge with skill at ~20. With Strength of Atlas (potion of wonder) I carried around 25 logs until very strained. This allowed me to place a whopping two of bridge sections. Rinse and repeat (luckily only once) and I was done. Can't imagine this torment without SoA, but it's doable.

[Stingray1]

Yeah, without SoA you do many, many, many and more trips up and down. I'd rather do that than grind for an uncertain amount of time though.

If you are into poolsipping and haven't done so yet you can also hope for a wish, although maybe too risky as an orc.

[JellySlayer]

You can just skip the eternal guardian. If you have controlled teleportation, it's easy to do. You just can't use the Darkforge shortcut afterwards.

[Nobbse]

last time I had such a problem I drank all my potions of wonder and I was lucky to get some few castings of Iceball -

[Tyrnyx]

For me grinding out the ToHK is usually the best bet. Only a few corruptions in exchange for at least some good gear usually even if you don't come up with the wand. I think getting an ogre there is less infuriating than hoping for the wand in the ID.

I tend to grind the ToHK if I need something in the earlier game and have climbing gear (and think I can survive it).

[magpie]

For me grinding out the ToHK is usually the best bet. Only a few corruptions in exchange for at least some good gear usually even if you don't come up with the wand. I think getting an ogre there is less infuriating than hoping for the wand in the ID.

I tend to grind the ToHK if I need something in the earlier game and have climbing gear (and think I can survive it).

I did that in an earlier game where I'd managed (by using up holy water) to get some PoCC from the druid. But in this game, so far, I've only managed to get SoCR by saving Khelavaster (I was lucky enough to find a AoLS), and in the version I'm playing (1.2.0 pre 5), those are somewhat unreliable in the hands of a orc barbarian with 50 Literacy (and with a skill increase of +1). And since many of my end-game characters have been ended by unavoidable corruption, I'd like to avoid grinding the Tomb cavernous levels.

Honestly, bridge-building is sounding more and more appealing ... My skill is at 30-odd right now.

[Blasphemous]

Grinding TotHK has the additional benefit of getting quite a lot of exp and generating lots of items.
I used this method to get an AoLS once and instead got 7LBs, eternium plate mail and a RoDS.

[GordonOverkill]

Honestly, bridge-building is sounding more and more appealing ... My skill is at 30-odd right now.

Skipping the High King completely is not an option?

[Deathwind]

Depending on the player's skill and the character, no it might not be an option.

[magpie]

Depending on the player's skill and the character, no it might not be an option.

I've never tried, but I'd rather have access to the shortcut if it's possible. I do have +TCtrl and a wand of teleportation, so I guess I could skip, but ...

(I'm not too bad, I'm not a n00b, but I am impatient and prone to distraction - which can be a death sentence in this game.)

As it stands, work is busy right now so I don't have time for more than 30 mins / 1 hr of ADOM a day at the moment. Grinding ID:9-10 is a good way to do it. I'd grind the TotHK, but I have a lot of the top-end stuff that I'd be grinding it for (AoLS, SLB, et cetera.), and I really don't want the corruption. In some ways, this character has been very lucky, and I don't want to waste it.

I noticed something interesting (which may be statistically insignificant, but ...): ID:10 seems to have a good chance to generate tension rooms, which are a good source of drops. The last one was a tension room of werewolves - managed to fill the level nicely with different types of wolves, which is great for grinding out clubs and hammers weapon marks (to get better use out of Skullcrusher, my crowning gift).

Actually, my weapon marks are looking very healthy from this exercise: 11 in Clubs so far, 10 in Maces (Big Punch), and 9 in two-handers (an early adamantium two-handed sword), plus 3 in slings, 4 in crossbows, and 6 in bows.

This is something I've never done before to any extent (grinding ID), and while it's a bit boring, the results have been pretty good so far. Even if no WoF has dropped, lots of other good stuff has, too (including some Potions/Wands of Wonder, which may well prove to be the substitute I need, truckloads of water, et cetera.)

Plus the weapon marks, which for a barbarian are really, really important. Especially now that scrolls are fairly unreliable.

[magpie]

YES!

What I did was, I went to ID:9, cleared it out, went to ID:10, cleared that out, and then rinsed and repeated until I finally generated a wand of frost ('golden wand') on about the 30th ID:9 I generated.

It was a bit frustrating, but actually worth it in the long-run: 10 more points of Literacy, truck-loads of potions of potential stat, a PoGA, potions of training and longevity, and about 25 potions of water.

Plus some other nice stuff (another wand of digging, a stack of good slaying ammunition, a ring of elemental mastery, a few girdles of carrying ...)

And no more corruptions, either!

Awesome. Totally worth the boredom of grinding. I will say, though, that some of the threat rooms generated on ID:10 would have been pretty damn harsh if I'd gone there with a fresh character (one of Werewolf Lords, and another of Black Wizards, is what I'm thinking of here).

[magpie]

YES!

What I did was, I went to ID:9, cleared it out, went to ID:10, cleared that out, and then rinsed and repeated until I finally generated a wand of frost ('golden wand') on about the 30th ID:9 I generated.

It was a bit frustrating, but actually worth it in the long-run: 10 more points of Literacy, truck-loads of potions of potential stat, a PoGA, potions of training and longevity, and about 25 potions of water.

Plus some other nice stuff (another wand of digging, a stack of good slaying ammunition, a ring of elemental mastery, a few girdles of carrying ...)

And no more corruptions, either!

Awesome. Totally worth the boredom of grinding. I will say, though, that some of the threat rooms generated on ID:10 would have been pretty damn harsh if I'd gone there with a fresh character (one of Werewolf Lords, and another of Black Wizards, is what I'm thinking of here).

Woot! ToEF down! I didn't even end up needing any Rings of Frost - I just left all my really good stuff in my stash, and took only what I needed. Honestly, the main problem was the room full of fire elementals in the lower west side of the ACW's complex; Fire Giants, Fire Giant Kings, and Fire Demons died so quickly to Skullcrusher, only two of them got any hits on me.

although the AKW got me close a couple of times with his damn energy bolts. Pelted him with blessed mithril drakish scurgars of death (skill of 5 in boomerangs from an early boomerang drop which I used to take out a threat room full of karmic lizards and some other stuff), ran, pelted him with poisoned penetrating quarrels, ran some more, pelted him with cursed potions of invis, ran some more, pelted him with blessed adamantium quarrels until dead. Pretty easy stuff.

Plus, his corpse was cooked by the heat in the Tower, which allowed me to return it to the Druid for a free blessed PoCC! Score!

So yeah, I'm feeling pretty good about this guy.

PS: Barbarians with blessed 7LB are insanely good kiters. If I want to waltz around something nasty and shoot it until it dies, basically nothing can keep up. Good thing I've been conscientious in levelling my ranged attacks.

[magpie]

Sigh. Opened a door and immediately critted to death by the Cat Lord. Didn't even have time to do anything ... ha ha ha.

[anon123]

Plus some other nice stuff (another wand of digging, a stack of good slaying ammunition, a ring of elemental mastery, a few girdles of carrying ...)

Are you sure about the RoME? Those are too high-DL to have been generated in the non-corrupting portion of the Infinite Dungeon.


some of the threat rooms generated on ID:10 would have been pretty damn harsh if I'd gone there with a fresh character (one of Werewolf Lords, and another of Black Wizards, is what I'm thinking of here).

Well, your character's level is taken into consideration when spawning monsters, so it makes sense that you'd see more dangerous stuff. For characters that start the game in the ID, I9 is only moderately dangerous and has many potential goodies, including mithril gear, seven league boots, potions of -stat- and water.

Anyway, sorry to hear about your loss. It hurts when you were doing so well and had gotten so far, even more so in this case. Can you believe some people think the cat lord is too easy? :p

[iffi]

Sigh. Opened a door and immediately critted to death by the Cat Lord. Didn't even have time to do anything ... ha ha ha.

Mid to late game deaths hurt really really bad. That is why you should make an effort to identify and prepare for the most common ones.

The Cat Lord is one of the more common ones, and the way I avoid this death is to avoid killing cats. To me it is an interesting mini-game inside the game and once you get good at it, it is not that annoying even during live-saccing. A bonus is that it also forces you to pay more attention to the game, which is the main thing to avoid unnecessary deaths. If cats were killed, then a wand of Monster Detection is helpful but to remember to use it is another thing..

Other common late game deaths: Paralyzation (Amulet of Free Action is much better than the Ankh..), Petrification, crushed under luggage by expiring Strength of Atlas (I rarely use it anymore for this and personal restriction reasons..), Magic Missileing yourself by carelessness and/or misspressing a key, and running into a river in darkness are the ones coming to my mind. All probably caused by a very strong character used to meleeing everything. Luckily for me, I find the melee characters not that interesting these days.

I learned all these the hard way. Perhaps every player has to go through the same steps so me giving advise is probably a futile effort. Should just delete this instead of posting I guess.

[JellySlayer]

Sigh. Opened a door and immediately critted to death by the Cat Lord. Didn't even have time to do anything ... ha ha ha.

Wands of monster detection are your friends. Probably one of the more useful utility wands in the endgame, IMHO.

[Deathwind]

Sigh. Opened a door and immediately critted to death by the Cat Lord. Didn't even have time to do anything ... ha ha ha.

THIS is why when I kill a cat my next action is shift-Q

[GordonOverkill]

THIS is why when I kill a cat my next action is shift-Q

From my eight winners seven were cat killers. Maybe you shift-Q some promising guys away?

[Deathwind]

I'd rather ditch a promising guy than face that thing.

edit: Who thought is was a good idea to add cats that walk through walls?

[anon123]

I'd rather ditch a promising guy than face that thing.

Even if you make it and get the RotMC, you still have to be careful not to accidentally bump into a cat for the remainder of the game, or bolt it out of LOS, or trigger a fireball trap near one, or...

Under most circumstances, you'll have plenty of time to plan how to fight or escape the cat lord when you forfeit the ring. And without +SeeI, he gives a large amount of experience as compensation. Don't quit good PCs just because they killed a cat.

[Stingray1]

Yes, I agree, let the cat lord shred them to pieces. That's the least you could do, to let them pay for their sin. Also, I don't get why you guys kill cats, that ring is truly fantastic.

[JellySlayer]

I've had far more PCs killed because I was trying to stupidly escape from a cat than I have had killed by the cat lord. Unless I'm a bard or druid, I don't bother with the ring. It's nice, but by the time you get it, you don't really need it. And you get a nice bundle of xp for killing the cat lord anyway.

[GordonOverkill]

Yes, I agree, let the cat lord shred them to pieces. That's the least you could do, to let them pay for their sin. Also, I don't get why you guys kill cats, that ring is truly fantastic.

At least the first cat is always killed by accident x-)

[grobblewobble]

Your opinion about cats depends mostly on how skilled you are at killing the cat lord. I usually make the fight much clumsier more exciting than necessary. For someone who is skilled enough at the game to beat the cat lord every time, of course avoiding cats is too much hassle to bother with. The question is, how do you make that fight safe? I know about webs and slaying ammo, but I'm not very good at using them. Usually the cat lord gets in a few melee rounds because I get myself cornered, or the cat lord breaks free too easily.

Tips on how to make this fight easier would be great.

[anon123]

The question is, how do you make that fight safe? I know about webs and slaying ammo, but I'm not very good at using them. Usually the cat lord gets in a few melee rounds because I get myself cornered, or the cat lord breaks free too easily.

Tips on how to make this fight easier would be great.

Use cursed potions of invisibility to blind him. Create barricades of webs, poison those slayers, then shoot them from a safe place (if you have potions of poison, slingshot those also). If he's getting too close, blind him again, take some distance and create more webs, then resume the process. Paralyzation and stunning also work, but he shrugs bolts too often. The former is of course great, if you're lucky enough. Wands of poison I believe do more damage over time than potions.

[JellySlayer]

If you switch to coward and unload the wand of fireballs from Thrundarr on him, it will often do enough damage to make him panic and run (you only need to get him moderately damaged to panic). Once that's happened, you can just trap him in a corner and kill him like a panicking shopkeeper. Might take a few Water Orb/PoEH, but this method is usually fairly reliable.

If he's close to a stairs, it's convenient to pull him up/down a level so that you can teleport. Makes it much easier. Wands of poison are great against him.

[magpie]

I've had far more PCs killed because I was trying to stupidly escape from a cat than I have had killed by the cat lord. Unless I'm a bard or druid, I don't bother with the ring. It's nice, but by the time you get it, you don't really need it. And you get a nice bundle of xp for killing the cat lord anyway.

Exactly. Early on in this game, the choices were kill a cat, or die. I think I killed about 10 cats of various types overall, maybe more (dark rooms et cetera). Personally, I'd rather kill a cat and have a chance at continuing on, than be killed by a cat (or pike out of a promising game by Shift+q'ing.

(Yeah, of course I'd rather not kill any cats and of course I'd rather claim the ring than fight the Master Cat, but sometimes, you don't have that choice. Although hitting a WoMD as soon as I got to the level could have made things different ... but hindsight's always 20/20, isn't it?)

I've seen the cat lord 6 times (that I remember) - got the ring once, killed him 4 times, and died to him once.

That was this game - open a door, and eat a truckload of invisible armour-piercing crits.

Harsh, but that's ADOM for you. There'll be other games - it's not a big deal.


Wands of poison are great against him.

Gosh, wands of poison are magnificent, aren't they? Too bad they're so rare (usually).

[gym21]

If you switch to coward and unload the wand of fireballs from Thrundarr on him, it will often do enough damage to make him panic and run (you only need to get him moderately damaged to panic). Once that's happened, you can just trap him in a corner and kill him like a panicking shopkeeper. Might take a few Water Orb/PoEH, but this method is usually fairly reliable.

If he's close to a stairs, it's convenient to pull him up/down a level so that you can teleport. Makes it much easier. Wands of poison are great against him.

This is how I do it. When I'm ready to make the cat lord dive, I charge up wand to 30+ charges with booze, go to coward before I go down stairs on both D:34 and D:35, and then murder him with fireballs. Water orb is helpful here, since you need to have extra fireball range.