PDA

View Full Version : I don't get it...



electric_wizard
03-07-2008, 02:42 PM
I'm afraid that I've never really played a PnP RPG and I don't really understand how it's supposed to work. Am I right in saying that you have a 'dungeon master' who just makes up a story and decides what happens to people? How does that actually work as a game?

theotherhiveking
03-07-2008, 02:59 PM
The dungeon master is the 'engine' he decides if a player finds a trap in a door or if a monster suddently appears, same with loot.

Each players take the role of his character, so if the player opens a door, the DM decides if it is trapped, and then decides (or maybe it is already set) the number that the player should get in the dice to evade it.

So, I open a door, but the DM says "You try to open the door, but it is stuck" then you kick the door, and..

"The door suddently opens and you see a blue fireball coming straight to you"

Then the DM can say.

"You must get a 5 in the dices to evade the fireball"

So if you get a 6 the DM can tell you the following:

You aren't fast enough to completely evade it, the fireball its you in your hand, you lose your sword and your gloves are burning your skin, you are unable to use it for 4 turns.

So you should take off gloves, wield other weapon with the other hand. /or find the sword after it gets cold again if it hasnt been destroyed or if it is still usable.

electric_wizard
03-07-2008, 04:22 PM
I guess that makes sense...

Don't think it's for me though, I'll stick to computerised Dungeon Masters!

theotherhiveking
03-07-2008, 05:01 PM
I guess that makes sense...

Don't think it's for me though, I'll stick to computerised Dungeon Masters!



Human dungeon masters are better to enjoy a good game, as they can make up a look of weird situations and other things that would requiere a stupid amount of work to get with a AI.

To play a computer rpg you only have to click the binary.. (or the main script if it is writen in java or in python)

Sadly, it is not that easy to start a game with real people.

Nearsighted
03-09-2008, 09:34 PM
Meh... PnP has always had waaay too much manual computing for my taste. I don't like having to take the time to roll forty of fifty dice sixty or seventy times every one event. Just too slow, I guess. Maybe if I'd been drinking, or something... :eek:

spectre
03-09-2008, 10:58 PM
Well, in my experience PnP gaming was more about being a social event: you and a coupla friends, you could have a beer, you could watch a film, instead you make up a story for yourselves.

Computer-based role playing as a solitary activity is simply a different thing.


@ Nearsighted - many people think the same way you do, game mechanics can be cumbersome if there are way too many rolls & tables & calculations.
That's why some people choose to reduce the number of number-crunching to the minimum in their plays, rolling only when something important is about to be decided.
That's also probably why diceless RPGs were invented. And yeah, drinking helps most of the time (-:

Worst Player... ever
03-10-2008, 12:24 AM
Meh... PnP has always had waaay too much manual computing for my taste. I don't like having to take the time to roll forty of fifty dice sixty or seventy times every one event. Just too slow, I guess. Maybe if I'd been drinking, or something... :eek:

That's a big part of why I got out of PnP, too. In 1st edition D&D every player knew the special features of each character class, each spell, and gaming was quick because the underlying rules were kept basic. When you told someone, 'I'm running a 6th level thief', it didn't matter if they were in your campaign or not... they generally had a great idea of what you were running.

As soon as they started making fruity character class types and combinations and specializations, I was done. It added too many rules and dice rolls and min/maxing. All that ruined the play for me.

I sound old and ornery, don't I? :eek:

theotherhiveking
03-10-2008, 06:39 PM
That's a big part of why I got out of PnP, too. In 1st edition D&D every player knew the special features of each character class, each spell, and gaming was quick because the underlying rules were kept basic. When you told someone, 'I'm running a 6th level thief', it didn't matter if they were in your campaign or not... they generally had a great idea of what you were running.

As soon as they started making fruity character class types and combinations and specializations, I was done. It added too many rules and dice rolls and min/maxing. All that ruined the play for me.

I sound old and ornery, don't I? :eek:

No.. or maybe yes.. i can't hear you...:D

I prefer to play simple games.. making it too complex ruins the play.

kala
03-11-2008, 10:21 AM
I think adom as a pnp can have something that curent pnp cant offer.. or atleast I cant think of any game where the GM can say "Its a room filled with green quotation marks and one red capital D sleeping in the corner" .. so that the players can actually get the meaning :)

spectre
03-11-2008, 01:07 PM
That would have been.... experimental (-:

You hit the yellow capital O with full force, burying your paranethesis up to the hilt. He gurgles and collapses with a thud into a bloody, crumpled yelow percent signt to the ground.

Dorten
03-12-2008, 04:39 AM
Not to the ground, but to the dot ;)

kala
03-12-2008, 12:44 PM
hmm.. i wonder about just plain dark rooms.. "You see an are with empy spaces"... talking about leting players to use their imagination.. :)

ScooterSkittles
03-13-2008, 05:45 AM
I'm a Dungeon Master in a D&D pencil and paper game right now. I very much agree with you on the fruity classes, the manual calculations, and the dice, dice and more dice. The Publisher of those books publish plenty, and characters want as much choice as possible. As a DM, I don't feel right restricting where they get their characters little abilities and weapons and items from, because I don't feel I would have a very good case denying them access to this or that book or books.

But now I'm stuck with 5 way out there players. A Neraph (race) Master-Thrower/Rouge from the plane of limbo, a Warforged Fighter/Paragon/somethingelse with abilities that work so well together I feel like someone's cheating sometimes, a Human (yay! Human! I know what that is!) Factotum (class), and a wizard of some sort.

Its also nice (not really) that when a new book comes out, it has got a brand new set of new races, new classes, new special abilities, and new spells to have to deal with.

Insert brain crash here.


I'd LOVE to see a ADOM RPG that was like D&D but used things ONLY from ADOM. I don't mind complex basic rules as long as the far out stuff (spells, races, etc) follow suit and don't try to always come up with their own rules for stuff.

kala
03-13-2008, 06:24 AM
I'm a Dungeon Master in a D&D pencil and paper game right now. I very much agree with you on the fruity classes, the manual calculations, and the dice, dice and more dice. The Publisher of those books publish plenty, and characters want as much choice as possible. As a DM, I don't feel right restricting where they get their characters little abilities and weapons and items from, because I don't feel I would have a very good case denying them access to this or that book or books.

But now I'm stuck with 5 way out there players. A Neraph (race) Master-Thrower/Rouge from the plane of limbo, a Warforged Fighter/Paragon/somethingelse with abilities that work so well together I feel like someone's cheating sometimes, a Human (yay! Human! I know what that is!) Factotum (class), and a wizard of some sort.

Its also nice (not really) that when a new book comes out, it has got a brand new set of new races, new classes, new special abilities, and new spells to have to deal with.

Insert brain crash here.


I'd LOVE to see a ADOM RPG that was like D&D but used things ONLY from ADOM. I don't mind complex basic rules as long as the far out stuff (spells, races, etc) follow suit and don't try to always come up with their own rules for stuff.

I prety much agree with everything here. Ive had the same problems, but luckily my players arent that keen on something very exotic.. or if they are.. usually the whole group goes to the same direction so its not that hard for the brains.. Luckily the curent group has a dwarf fetish and wanted to go with warhammer ruleset.. which is one of my favorites, even with its weakneses

Orbic
03-13-2008, 09:37 AM
I've been "dungeon master" and player for many good years, so I can share some experience...
having 4-6 players around a table is a completely different game, nothing to do with ADOM because of the interaction - rivalry - plots between the players.
The MD is at the helmsman but he is not running the ship himself! Or sometimes he is only the wind in the sails...

D&D is a fantastic way to start because it is a balanced system (if the DM is doing his job)
You soon hit limitations and frustrations though, too many rules to learn and apply... you soon find out that your players know more than they should to enjoy the experience and story.

Why not follow the true path?
Create your own ruleset and world!

Use your best player(s) for testing, create the rules, the world, the background from scrath and from the games / campaigns you have enjoyed as a player and DM. Less roll dices, less rules overall and more accuracy where you like it - I remember creating the following bits with high satisfaction from the players and myself:
a critical hits table to be able to add gory descriptions to fights and end them faster than normal D&D ones, complete with disabilities, maiming and recovery so that players think before they run into a fight
a ruleset for the use of magic based on extracting magic from the magic used (exhausting) or the environment (depleting it) at the user's choice and possibilities (magic schools, training)... so that the power of wizards does not overcome that of others

Begin with refining and cutting out what is blunt / frustrating in D&D, that is the first step toward creative bliss.

Enjoy the satisfaction of Thomas Himself as being "The Creator" :)

Ars
03-19-2008, 01:56 AM
Too complicated and combat-oriented RPGs suck... They're not about combat with fancy rulesets and tactical options that take hours, it's about characters and fuckin ROLEPLAYING. When you can pretend that you're someone else, combat just isn't the most interesting thing (it's still interesting though). Nowadays computers can make more detailed combats then people with dice, but real humans can act better NPCs then computers easily. Computers also have no imagination.

Worst Player... ever
03-19-2008, 10:14 PM
Too complicated and combat-oriented RPGs suck... They're not about combat with fancy rulesets and tactical options that take hours, it's about characters and fuckin ROLEPLAYING. When you can pretend that you're someone else, combat just isn't the most interesting thing (it's still interesting though). Nowadays computers can make more detailed combats then people with dice, but real humans can act better NPCs then computers easily. Computers also have no imagination.

I'm kind of the opposite on this one. Role Playing is OK to me and I've certainly had characters I've liked to talk with, but for the most part role playing should set the backdrop for a story as opposed to it being the dominating part of the game. For me, too much roleplaying means the most talkative players run the game whereas the rest of the table plays with their dice and stacks them in piles and stuff.

For me, I approached D&D like it was a miniatures wargame with added perks. Keep on the Borderlands? The Lost City? They were pointless but I had a lot of fun playing them!

Both play styles probably work great if they're done right. I'm betting a 'combat' style is the style of choice if groups have a fair amount of fatalities, since role playing a character for an hour who then dies 15 minutes into their first dungeon is pretty demoralizing. But either way, it takes a certain kind of DM and group to successfully pull off each one.

I do agree that with you combat has to be kept simple. Anyone here play Advanced Squad Leader? Damn...

FantomFang
05-29-2008, 06:48 AM
I know this thread is old, but i just have to say one thing...Cyberpunk.

Great game, much more fatal than normal D&D, it can take as long, or as short, as you want to make a character, and almost every roll made while playing uses a d10. D6's are used sparingly. Its great for roleplaying (If you accept the possibility of first session death), combats are about how you enter them, not how strong your character is (a good ambush can mean life or death, for ex.), and the game is set up in such a way that its hard to NOT stop a player when he's out of line. Directly quoted (more or less) from the rulebook, "Your players are getting out of line? Then just waste 'em = its the Cyberpunk way"

Its not in print anymore, so youd have to purchase it online, but its a great game system for those interested. For the setting, like the name, think extremely corrupt/dangerous Steampunk (like Ghost in the Shell, among others). Its great fun!

Sentinel
08-24-2008, 09:29 AM
Hi, i found this table in the Improved Adom Guidebook :


Race St Le Wi Dx To Ch Ap Ma Pe Total Xp
DarkElf 9 10 12 15 9 7 12 16 13 +13 1.2
Drakel. 13 10 12 9 13 10 8 10 9 + 6 1.2
Dwarf 12 11 11 9 13 9 9 10 11 +5 1.2
Gnome 9 11 9 12 11 12 10 14 11 +9 0.9
GrayElf 10 13 10 14 7 8 18 15 14 +19 1.2
HighElf 10 13 9 15 8 10 14 13 14 +16 1.2
Human 10 12 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 +2 1
Hurth. 6 10 10 15 12 12 10 8 10 +3 0.95
Orc 14 8 10 10 13 8 7 6 8 -6 1.2
Troll 18 5 8 8 18 6 5 6 7 -9 3


Has someone managed, what the Total value is used for?

Laukku
08-24-2008, 01:42 PM
Has someone managed, what the Total value is used for?

It just tells how many points there are more or less compared to a all-10-stat set. Nothing used by the game AFAIK, just a way to compare the races' stats.

Windmill_Man
09-25-2008, 07:04 AM
I've never played a PnP game before. I probably won't either... From what I can understand, the DM has a bit too much power. At least with AI you know it's gonna be random. It is too easy for human beings to be biased in things like this. But the main reason why I probably won't play one is that I'm impatient :D.

hmm...I bet there is some kind of program out there that rolls dice...if PnP games use regular dice you could use a simple yahtzee program to take care of it. But, I've never played so I wouldn't know a damn thing about that...just thought I'd give some input. That's if you play next computer of some sort though :(.

vogonpoet
10-03-2008, 02:34 PM
Even simple pocket calculators are able to create random numbers.... Hell, even Excel can do random numbers.

My phone can't, although I guess there might be an app I could download....

Sentinel
10-03-2008, 04:00 PM
If you want to try PnP online, then google for "Fantasy Grounds , OpenRPG or Battlegrounds". ;)