Mission ADOMPossible: Signup and General Discussion

[JellySlayer]

This is the official signup thread for the Mission ADOMPossible challenge. This is a mission-based challenge when you will be competing against other players, in teams to try to make it through (most) of the game, while wracking up points for surviving each challenge. If you are interested in signing up, please post here, and indicate the team that you would prefer to play on. The challenge will take approximately six weeks, and you will probably have to play about ~6000 turns (1 hour or so) every five days to keep up. The official start date will be this Saturday January 25.

New and inexperienced players or new members of the forums are strongly encouraged to play. This challenge aims to be fun and accessible to players of all skill levels, and may give you the
opportunity to try areas you haven't reached before, or get helpful hints from experienced members.

Please see the new Important Information and Mission Thread (http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread.php/13040-Mission-ADOMPossible-Important-Information-and-Missions-Thread) for details about your missions and the game rules.

Here are the current teams. Please add yourself to any empty space on any of the teams. More teams can be added if there is enough demand.

Team Earth:
1. JellySlayer
2. Frankie
3. Sangrealman
4. Carter
5. elenie

Team Fire:
1. SirTheta
2. Soirana
3. prototypeXXsupercool
4. infe
5. Qui

Team Air:
1. Superteeth
2. grobblewobble
3. Siriah
4. Mobius
5. slyph

Team Water:
1. Silfir
2. GordonOverkill
3. Cactus
4. Harwin
5. szopin

Team Indecisive:
1. Grey
2. GothicHamster
3. Aerin
4. Blasphemous
5. _Ln_

Team Mana:
1. okitsgreat
2. Arbot
3. kapak
4. RavenShire
5. Iridia

[Superteeth]

I am interested. It will not be necessary to play online, will it? If not, then I want to be on Team Air.

[JellySlayer]

No, you will play locally and upload your save when you're finished.

[SirTheta]

Team Fire because TOEF is my favorite place in the game :D

[Silfir]

Yeeeessss. This pleases me.

Team Water sounds quite fine.

[Soirana]

Well, still sound very boring but consider me signed in.

Well, team fire according to tradition.

[Frankie]

I would like to join Team Earth.

[grobblewobble]

I'm in for team air.

[GordonOverkill]

Count me in for the winning team!

e: Since maximal culmination of German accent should almost guarantee victory, I'd like to join team water!

[Sangrealman]

Let me be the first newbie member to announce my interest.

I would very much like to join the challenges, but I'm very very new when it comes to forums. If there is a team leader that can somehow instruct the basics of how to post the correct info about saves and so on, I'm totally in.

As for ADOM, I got two gate closer's of which one also received the TotRR, but didn't go for ULE. So I know atleast how to 'h'andle levers, if that counts.

If it's all the same to what team I join, I'll go for Team Earth (ftw).

[Cactus]

I'm in! Team Water it shall be.

"Be Water, my friend" - Bruce Lee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4fdPrjKDME)

[Grey]

I'm in, as long as I'm not teamed with Soirana. I want some real competition, after all ;)

[Soirana]

I'm in, as long as I'm not teamed with Soirana. I want some real competition, after all ;)

Screw you. And yes time fire is recruiting. N00b faggots and tree shakers including.

2115

[Sangrealman]

I'm in, as long as I'm not teamed with Soirana. I want some real competition, after all ;)

I believe it was a compliment :confused:

[prototypeXXsupercool]

Hi there,

my brother keeps on talking about all those challenges that are going on here and it allways sounds like a good fun. Since having heaps of experience and skills is NO criterion for participation I'd love to join this one ;-)


And yes time fire is recruiting. N00b faggots and tree shakers including.

2115

If there are still spots left, this sounds like the right team for me :-D

[Mobius]

If we're talking save game swapping, which platform are we playing on? I'm running MacOS 10.8, so can't play with pc folks.

[JellySlayer]

I thought savegames were cross-compatible?

[Soirana]

I thought savegames were cross-compatible?

While we are on compatability question which version we gonna use? p20 I guess, right?

[JellySlayer]

Yes, we will be using pre20. I'll make a note of that in the top post.

[SirTheta]

savegames are questionably compatible between platforms...I know 64-bit and 32-bit Linux saves are not compatible for instance. Maybe we can do some testing? I can post a 32-bit and 64-bit Linux save when I get home.

[JellySlayer]

Here's a Windows 32bit save to test.

I don't remember this being a problem in previous iterations of these sorts of challenges.

[Mobius]

I thought savegames were cross-compatible?

I thought not. But rather than think, let's test it.

Here is a Mac os10 intel, noteye save2117

[Mobius]

that worked for me

[SirTheta]

I think I am now vaguely recalling that 32-bit saves are compatible? Maybe that is the solution. Let me double-check the previous thing we did.

edit: Okay, previous competition was on 1.1.1 and I can't find stuff from earlier. I'll check your 32-bit saves when I get home, but I'm betting that's the solution - no 64-bit.

[Superteeth]

I am running Windows 8 64-bit, and both the Mac and 32-bit saves work for me.

[Harwin]

I'd like to give it a try. Water please.

[Silfir]

I'd like to give it a try. Water please.

A pleasure to have you fighting on my side once more!

[Harwin]

A pleasure to have you fighting on my side once more!

You say that now, let's hope your opinion stays that way :)

[Siriah]

I want to join team Air and make the world a bit more confusing by also having a name that starts with an S! ;)

[GothicHamster]

Count me in. I am a super noob just to be up front! I have no preference of team so feel free to assign me to a team with an empty slot. I would pick a team but it appears as of this post the team rosters are not updated. Thanks!

[Harwin]

Oh er, one problem possibly.
I'm going to be out of town (and unable to take my turn) for approximately 9 days from Feb 15-24th or so.

I can get my turn in right before I leave and do the next one right as I get back, but it may make me a day or too late.
If that's too big an issue then I understand.

[JellySlayer]

Updated with the current rosters. There seems to be lots of interest, so I've added "Team Indecisive" for those of you who posted that you were interested but didn't specify a team.

[edit]Team Water is currently full. If you guys want to start your own thread to discuss team strategy--in particular, to generate a ranking of your preferred classes--you can go ahead and do that. I'll assign you your races shortly.

[infe]

Hi! I'd like to play. I'm playing ADOM for about 10 years. I have fun everytime RNG finds another creative way to kill my PCs. I'd like to join Team Fire. FTW!

[Carter]

i'm in - team earth

[Mobius]

Ok, team air. Or indecisive, if I get bumped

[Qui]

Team Indecisive for me I guess.

[Blasphemous]

Count me in, if it's still possible. Maybe name the 5th team Mana Team?

[_Ln_]

Team Indecisive for the win! I want there.

[Arbot]

I'm interested, just place me in a random team

[grobblewobble]

-Each team will be assigned four races more or less at random. From these, the team will rank all of the classes in order of preference, and classes will be assigned to each team as well. From their given race/class, the team will roll four characters.
So, each team comes up with 1 list of preferred classes and can freely choose how to pair their races and classes?

[Silfir]

If this is like the last time, that's exactly right. You can for instance score a beastfighter on the class draft and combine it with an assigned dark elf.

[Grey]

Looks like we have 6 indecisives now. What's the cut-off point for sign-up? And how shall we deal with extras?

[grobblewobble]

Maybe name the 5th team Mana Team?
With the rate that people are joining in, we might end up with a Team Indecisive and a Team Mana. :)

[Soirana]

Looks like we have 6 indecisives now. What's the cut-off point for sign-up? And how shall we deal with extras?

Well, each time some forum game was on, I do recall couple no shows or early dissapears so the last few can be assigned as reserve.

Or you know each team might get some [presumably one] extra char from earlier suppossed challenge list [no spell caster/dualwielder/etc.]. I am pretty sure not letting people to participate is not an option.
Otherwise 22 classes are somewhat limiting factor as I don't think we can get to 40 to run like two full sets for team or something like that.

[Blasphemous]

(...) I am pretty sure not letting people to participate is not an option.

Damn right it's not an option :P
Too bad I somehow overlooked this thread until yesterday, I'd have signed up for it sooner.

[JellySlayer]

Everyone will get to play if they want.

Here's my plans for accommodating the extra players:
-I've increased the team size to 5. The current players who aren't yet assigned to a team can join any of the elemental teams. If there's still more people coming, I'll add Team Mana, and even more teams if it comes to that.
-As far as classes are concerned, what I think I will do is assign every team a Chaos Knight as one of their characters, and that class will be withdrawn from the lottery. Given that Chaos Knights have a lot of their own special challenges relating to quests and corruption and whatnot which could potentially make some missions much harder, I think that having one team getting stuck with them is maybe not so fair. So instead, everyone gets one.

[edit]Unrelated thought: Should I post the missions now? My current plan was to post the missions one by one as teams reached them, to avoid teams trying to strategize their play to take into account later objectives. However, since I'm playing on Team Earth, this could give us an unfair advantage even if I don't intentionally spoil the details of future missions to the other teams. Any thoughts? Anybody care either way?

[Aerin]

Screw it! I have the free time and I love to play adom, I'm in. Undecided on team as of yet.

[JellySlayer]

Welcome to team indecisive then :)

[grobblewobble]

Each team will be assigned the classes that they'll be playing based on the list they submit, but there won't be overlap--so if Team Air has Wizard as their #1 pick, and we have Wizard as our #1 pick, if Team Air drafts before us, then they get a wizard, and we get our #2 pick.

So what happens if team A drafts before B and team B drafts before C? If teams A and B have wizard as first pick and archer as second, while team C has archer as first pick, will B get the archer or C?

[grobblewobble]

[edit]Unrelated thought: Should I post the missions now? My current plan was to post the missions one by one as teams reached them, to avoid teams trying to strategize their play to take into account later objectives. However, since I'm playing on Team Earth, this could give us an unfair advantage even if I don't intentionally spoil the details of future missions to the other teams. Any thoughts? Anybody care either way?

Fun over fairness. I love the suspension and would hate to see the surprise spoiled.

[JellySlayer]

Okay, so here's basically how it will work in detail. All team lists will be collected. Each team will then be randomly assigned a number from 1-number of teams, and that will be the drafting order. The first team in the drafting order will get their first choice pick. The next team will get their first choice pick unless that is the pick from team 1, in which case they'll get their second choice. The third team will get their first, if available, second, if available, and third otherwise. And so on. The order will reverse itself once we reach the end of the line, so team 5, say, will get picks 5 and 6, whereas team 1 will get picks 1 and 10. I haven't decided what will happen if there are too many PCs needed for the number of teams we have. Here's an example with 3 teams and 6 classes of what this will look like:

Team A roster:
1. Wizard
2. Archer
3. Paladin
4. Fighter
5. Farmer
6. Mindcrafter

Team B:
1. Wizard
2. Archer
3. Paladin
4. Farmer
5. Mindcrafter
6. Fighter

Team C:
1. Paladin
2. Wizard
3. Archer
4. Fighter
5. Mindcrafter
6. Farmer

Suppose the teams are assigned the order ABC. Then the overall pickings will go ABCCBA. So Team A gets their first choice pick, wizard. Team B has wizard as their first choice, but Team A already has it, so they get Archer. Team C has Paladin as their first pick, so they get paladin. Team C now goes again. Wizard and archer are gone, so they get fighter. Team B gets their next pick, and, with Wiz, Archer, Paladin gone, they get their #4, which is Farmer. Team A gets Mindcrafter because it's the only one left. So in this situation, the lists would give:
Team A: Wizard, Mindcrafter
Team B: Archer, Farmer
Team C: Paladin, Fighter

[Harwin]

Rules/Spirit question:

1)If we fail a mission, but the character lives, the next person starts from that save, right? So if the mission is to get the Fire Orb in 5k turns, and we're sitting next to the ACW at the end of 5k turns, but he's still alive, the next person starts at that point, presumably getting the Fire Orb and continuing.

2)What's the pressure to succeed at a mission(besides the point you get for success)? Suppose the first mission is to save Kenny. I think we have enough days to get to the SMC and then get to Kenny, if we don't waste time in the PC. Assuming that's the case, are we allowed to head over to the SMC first, thereby risking the mission?

[Soirana]

[edit]Unrelated thought: Should I post the missions now? My current plan was to post the missions one by one as teams reached them, to avoid teams trying to strategize their play to take into account later objectives. However, since I'm playing on Team Earth, this could give us an unfair advantage even if I don't intentionally spoil the details of future missions to the other teams. Any thoughts? Anybody care either way?

Can we get races before choosing classes?

You know if team's races are orc, orc, troll, drake, ratling - wizzard might not be such a hot choice.

[JellySlayer]

Yeah, sure, that makes sense. I'll go ahead and assign everyone their races.

[edit]
Rules/Spirit question:

1)If we fail a mission, but the character lives, the next person starts from that save, right? So if the mission is to get the Fire Orb in 5k turns, and we're sitting next to the ACW at the end of 5k turns, but he's still alive, the next person starts at that point, presumably getting the Fire Orb and continuing.

Yes, that is correct. You won't get any points for completing the Fire Orb mission, but you can still keep going with that PC. If you die, you have to go from previous save.


2)What's the pressure to succeed at a mission(besides the point you get for success)? Suppose the first mission is to save Kenny. I think we have enough days to get to the SMC and then get to Kenny, if we don't waste time in the PC. Assuming that's the case, are we allowed to head over to the SMC first, thereby risking the mission?

In each mission, you will be given a set of areas that you are allowed to visit. As long as you stay within those areas, you can do whatever you would like with your time. There should, in fact, be enough time in most of the missions for a bit of character building as you go. In the first mission, for example, a significant number of PCs will probably want to run into the VD to grab healing, even if this isn't part of the objective. There should be plenty of time to do this sort of thing, within reason.

[Blasphemous]

Put me into indecisive team even though there are free slots in existing ones. I can start anywhere.

[JellySlayer]

Okay. Here are the assigned races for each team. They were assigned randomly, except that nobody has to play the same race twice. I don't think anybody got too badly screwed over...

Earth: Dark Elf, High Elf, Troll, Ratling, Gnome
Air: Grey Elf, Dark Elf, Dwarf, Gnome, Hurthling
Fire: Troll, Grey Elf, Dwarf, Hurthling, Ratling
Water: High Elf, Gnome, Orc, Drakeling, Mist Elf
Indecisive: Troll, Gnome, Dark Elf, Mist Elf, Human

[_Ln_]

Put me into indecisive team even though there are free slots in existing ones. I can start anywhere.

Same for me please, JS.

So, is it the official name, eh?

[Mobius]

[edit]Unrelated thought: Should I post the missions now? My current plan was to post the missions one by one as teams reached them, to avoid teams trying to strategize their play to take into account later objectives. However, since I'm playing on Team Earth, this could give us an unfair advantage even if I don't intentionally spoil the details of future missions to the other teams. Any thoughts? Anybody care either way?

If you're worried about fairness, you could let the team captains have similar information, or cryptic hints. Or give each team a chance to design a mission to run.

[Cactus]

Upon character creation, will we be able to pick our race-class combination after rolling the star sign or do we have to decide which character will be created before rolling the star sign?

[JellySlayer]

You won't get to see starsign before you start.

[Harwin]

When we roll a character are we supposed to save immediately? (If he dies, where does the next person start the character - fresh roll or from an initial save game)?

[JellySlayer]

When we roll a character are we supposed to save immediately? (If he dies, where does the next person start the character - fresh roll or from an initial save game)?

Yes, you should save immediately and back up the save.

[GordonOverkill]

Okay, so here's basically how it will work in detail. All team lists will be collected. Each team will then be randomly assigned a number from 1-number of teams, and that will be the drafting order. The first team in the drafting order will get their first choice pick. The next team will get their first choice pick unless that is the pick from team 1, in which case they'll get their second choice. The third team will get their first, if available, second, if available, and third otherwise. And so on. The order will reverse itself once we reach the end of the line, so team 5, say, will get picks 5 and 6, whereas team 1 will get picks 1 and 10.

Just an idea that makes the thing a little more tactical: First team gets their first choice. Then second team gets their first choice if availible, otherwise second team is moved to the end of the list and the first choice of the third team is checked... and so on. If we handled it like this, the decision which class to put on which priority would become alot more important. Do you really want to gamble for an early position in the drawing and put that wizard on number one? If you get him... nice! But if not, you will reduce your chance to get your number two! What do you say? In my eyes that would be quite exciting!

[SirTheta]

I would hate that :P

[Grey]

I can't decide if I like the name "Team Indecisive" or not :-/

[grobblewobble]

Grey. :D

A question. Superteeth asked which player gets to play which character. I had assumed that it's free, except that no player can play the same character twice in a row.. but reading back the rules I don't see any rule for it?

[JellySlayer]

Yes, that's correct.

[Harwin]

Another rules question. If you die, are you able to post the .flg (with identified items, intrinsics, etc) for the group?

[SirTheta]

With regards to CK: should we be able to roll out certain corruptions? I'm thinking specifically mana battery, stiff muscles & bodily tissues in a state of decay, plus maybe flesh-ridden maggots. Those are pretty punishing unless you're doing some sort of challenge.

[Grey]

Is this not a challenge?

[Superteeth]

I think the whole point of everyone playing a chaos knight is so that everyone has a chance at a challenge. The corruptions are random, so no one will get an unfair advantage (at least, no one will get an unfair advantage because of something they had control over).

[SirTheta]

I think the challenge here is more finishing the game in 54k turns on the first try, 5 times in tandem :P

I mean, if not, so be it, just seems weird to me to potentially stick someone with stiff muscles - just because you give everyone a CK doesn't mean someone isn't going to be at a humongous disadvantage from the corruption lottery.

[Mobius]

so, is it bad form to read the team posts from other teams?

I have not, but I don't know if everybody else is virtuous. Or (wo)manly enough to win without a crutch like that.

[Superteeth]

But that's the glory of it - it is completely random. I doubt that the rules will not allow teams to re-roll if certain corruptions are present, though.

[JellySlayer]

No, you won't get to reroll your CK if you get bad corruptions. Feel free to bitch and complain about it though.

[GordonOverkill]

No, you won't get to reroll your CK if you get bad corruptions. Feel free to bitch and complain about it though.

Hussa, we love our game master! :-)

[Qui]

It looks like my stealth was too high and my signup wasn't noticed. Anyway, any team wants me or should I just pick one at random?

[JellySlayer]

Pick whichever team you want.

[Qui]

Sign me up for Fire, then.

[Soirana]

Sign me up for Fire, then.

Good we have full set of players in such case:cool:.

Now please go and submit class preference list, so discussion keeps alive.

[sylph]

I'd like to sign up for team air, if it isn't too late. :)
Shall I go over to their thread and post an intro?

[elenie]

If there's still room I'd love to join the challenge, let's say for Team Earth. This will be my first team challenge - should be interesting :-)

[JellySlayer]

Okay, everyone is signed up. We currently have one spot still open on Team Water right now, but I can open up Team Mana if more people come along.

elenie, please check out the Team Earth thread and think about what you'd like to do with our classes/races.

[szopin]

I'd like to join Team Water (sorry, no german accent here)

[JellySlayer]

Note to teams: Please submit your finalized team by Friday at the latest. You will receive your first mission on Saturday. You can post it here, or PM it to me if you want to be stealthy about it.

[JellySlayer]

Also, to fuel some idle speculation, here's some hints about what the missions will be about:

Mission 1:
You'll be looking for an item. It's not too hard to find, if you know where to look.

Mission 2:
Wishing for phase daggers might not be a bad idea.

Mission 3:
You will have to make a great sacrifice.

Mission 4:
This one will require you to be a bit sneaky.

Mission 5:
You will have to do something in this mission you have almost certainly never done before. This one is really hard.

Mission 6:
You knew this one was coming sooner or later.

Mission 7:
All the way down... This is the longest mission.

Mission 8:
There will be some epic battles in this one.

Mission 9:
The grande finale.

[grobblewobble]

Uh-oh.. I have a bad feeling about mission 2. xD

[okitsgreat]

If any spaces get free on existing team or Team Mana gets formed I'd love to join :D !

Oh, and I suck at this game xD

[JellySlayer]

If any spaces get free on existing team or Team Mana gets formed I'd love to join :D !

Oh, and I suck at this game xD

I've added you to Team Mana. If we get enough players to fill it, then, great. Otherwise, I'll try to work out something creative to handle however many people we have left over.

[Superteeth]

Fair enough. The corruptions are random, after all. Fair (or unfair) for everyone.

[Sangrealman]

First mission hype anyone?

I bet its the Phial!

[grobblewobble]

I think it's the golden gladius.

[Arbot]

Not sure if you saw my post but I'll play, put me on team mana it looks like

[Cactus]

Another rules question. If you die, are you able to post the .flg (with identified items, intrinsics, etc) for the group?

This is a point that still needs to be clarified.

Personally I think that if a player does a writeup on how he died, most important information on items/intrinsics will be given away anyway so we might as well post it.

[JellySlayer]

I agree with Cactus. Posting the full .flg is fine if you die. You'll be at enough of a disadvantage in the next round either way that it won't matter so much.

[grobblewobble]

So is (ab)using the starting questions allowed? I think they can make a pretty big difference, maybe best to rule them out?

Maybe the first quest is for a potion of ultra healing? Would be interesting, it encourage UD diving but offer an alternative.

[JellySlayer]

No starting questions.

[_Ln_]

Do we need to roll PCs before the 1st mission is announced or we can wait for it? I have a feeling teams who have trolls may run into trouble.

My bet is on

a scroll of peace/thieves picks/amulet of chaos

[JellySlayer]

You can wait until after the announcement, if you want, before you finalize your decisions. No real harm in it, I don't think, and it's easier for me if I can just post the mission when it's convenient rather than having to wait to make sure everyone has rolled their PCs.

[Mobius]

No starting questions.

and no 'accidentally' setting the date to anything but the true date.

[JellySlayer]

Teams, please remember to submit your lists to me today. I'll give everyone their classes once all of the lists are in. As I said before, you can post here if you want, or PM me if you're paranoid (but everyone is reading your thread anyway so I wouldn't worry about it ;) )

[Soirana]

List for team fire



elementalist
wizzard
druid
archer
Barbarian

duelist
Paladin
priest
necromancer
Monk


mindrafter
Assassin
weaponsmith
Beastfighter
ranger

farmer
Healer
fighter
Bard
Thief
merchant

[kapak44]

I know I'm rather late, but is there any chance of getting a spot in the remaining teams? I have no preference, so feel free to put me in anything.

Edit: Thanks for the add. Will attempt to catch up with reading details for the challenges/etc.

[JellySlayer]

I've added you to Team Mana.

For those of you Mana, you'll probably have to play shorthanded unless we get a few more to come in. Your races for the three characters you will play so far are Orc, Ratling, High Elf. Go ahead and make a thread and start putting together a class list (don't worry about trying to get it submitted today).

[grobblewobble]

Team Air list:



wizard
druid
archer
necromancer
ranger
paladin
elementalist
priest
weaponsmith
barbarian
beastfighter
duelist
fighter
monk
assassin
thief
mindcrafter
healer
bard
merchant
farmer

[Grey]

Just noticed that Water are the only group to get a drakeling. No fair :( Of course it'll make things even more embarrassing for that group when they fail miserably...

[Cactus]

On behalf of Team Water I would like to submit our list as well as spit some drakeling acid in Grey's direction ;)


1. Wizard
2. Elementalist
3. Archer
4. Druid
5. Barbarian
6. Paladin
7. Necromancer
8. Priest
9. Duelist
10. Beastfighter
11. Assassin
12. Ranger
13. Monk
14. Mindcrafter
15. Fighter
16. Weaponsmith
17. Healer
18. Bard
19. Merchant
20. Farmer
21. Thief

[sylph]

Just noticed that Water are the only group to get a drakeling. No fair
It's not like having a troll is that much worse. :P

[Soirana]

It's not like having a troll is that much worse. :P

They are the only team with ork too. compensates well for lack of troll if you ask me.

[Grey]

Troll is a curse. I'd much rather have dwarf/orc/drakeling over a troll. They're all early game survivable whilst still being flexible with many classes.

[GordonOverkill]

For those who are not happy with the races we got... the whole of team water has made a pact with AnDoR dRaKoN. He agreed to let us win this challange and in return we agreed to sacrifice our breakfast to him and not attemp any ultra endings during our next ten runs. So there's no reason to get angry... there's a rational explanation for everything, you just have to ask.

[grobblewobble]

You gave up your breakfast? Poor team water. :/ I'd rather traded away my soul.

[_Ln_]

Also, we need a flame thread: despite the fact that Cactus acknowledged Grey's skill with drakelings I felt a certain malicious intent and have an obligation to defend my teammate and my team.

[okitsgreat]

Would we have to play a Chaos Knight if nobody else joined our team, if we stayed three?

[JellySlayer]

Would we have to play a Chaos Knight if nobody else joined our team, if we stayed three?

No. You can play without one if you want to.

[JellySlayer]

1.Wizard
2.Paladin
3.Archer
4.Elementalist
5.Priest

6.Ranger
7.Duelist
8.Necromancer
9.Bard
10.Fighter
11.Assassin
12.Healer
13.Barbarian
14.Beastfighter
15.Weaponsmith

16.Monk
17.Farmer
18.Thief
19.Mindcrafter
20.Merchant

21.Druid


Earth list.

Just waiting on Team Indecisive, of course ;)

[sylph]

Also, we need a flame thread.
We'll do our best.


Troll is a curse. I'd much rather have dwarf/orc/drakeling over a troll. They're all early game survivable whilst still being flexible with many classes.

I'd much rather have Troll/dwarf/orc/drakeling over 'none of the above'. :P
Actually, seeing this, I'm beginning to think part of water's pact with Andor Drakon involved shafting team air's races. I'm kinda glad though, because with none of the best races and none of the best players, it's gonna be even funnier when we win!

Would we have to play a Chaos Knight if nobody else joined our team, if we stayed three?

No. You can play without one if you want to.
That is, if you want to be the special little princess team. ;)

[okitsgreat]

Yeeeees I wanna be the special princess :o

[SirTheta]

I'm a bit confused now - since there are only 21 classes (excluding Chaos Knight) and currently 23 class spots (28 players - 5 teams with CK), how will the draft work? Obviously there will be repeated classes, but how will they be determined?

[Soirana]

I'm a bit confused now - since there are only 21 classes (excluding Chaos Knight) and currently 23 class spots (28 players - 5 teams with CK), how will the draft work? Obviously there will be repeated classes, but how will they be determined?

I don't believe mana team will be included in draft. You know, draft is mentally dangerous for three little princess (http://evilspeculator.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011-08-29_piggies.png)

[JellySlayer]

Yes, Mana will not be included in the draft. I will still use the draft results to assign their classes though.

[_Ln_]

I'm a bit confused now - since there are only 21 classes (excluding Chaos Knight) and currently 23 class spots (28 players - 5 teams with CK), how will the draft work? Obviously there will be repeated classes, but how will they be determined?

There are 5 teams with 4 picks (+1 CK), so all we get is some flexibility in ditching one class possibility completely. As you can see all teams except Earth (druid? what the hell?) went realistically with this bonus.

[SirTheta]

Ah, that answers my question. Thanks Soirana/JS.

(_Ln_: Yes, I thought that odd as well..)

[Grey]

3 of the teams have Druid in the top 5 whilst Earth have Druid placed last? Weirdos... Also Earth rank Bard as number 9 while everyone else has them in the lowest few. Will be interesting to see what crappy skillset they get on their Bard!

Hmm, well, I suppose the Team Indecisive list might possibly be this:


1) Archer
2) Wizard
3) Elementalist
4) Priest
5) Paladin

6) Barbarian
7) Necromancer
8) Druid
9) Healer
10) Ranger

11) Assassin
12) Fighter
13) Beastfighter
14) Duelist
15) Monk

16) Weaponsmith
17) Farmer
18) Mindcrafter
19) Bard
20) Merchant
21) Thief

But, y'know, don't mind me, I'm not the leader or anything, none of us really know for sure...

[Soirana]

But, y'know, don't mind me, I'm not the leader or anything, none of us really know for sure...[/COLOR][/COLOR]

Pretty sure other teams can make list for you if decisions cause that much for you. Just say the word.

[JellySlayer]

Okay, draw order is:
Fire, Earth, Indecisive, Air, Water

Fire gets: Elementalist (1st choice)
Earth gets: Wizard (1st choice)
Indecisive gets: Archer (1st choice)
Air gets: Druid (2nd choice)
Water gets: Barbarian (5th choice)
Water gets: Paladin (6th choice)
Air gets: Necromancer (4th choice)
Indecisive gets: Priest (4th choice)
Earth gets: Ranger (6th choice)
Fire gets: Duelist (6th choice)
Fire gets: Monk (11th choice)
Earth gets: Bard (9th choice)
Indecisive gets: Healer (9th choice)
Air gets: Weaponsmith (9th choice)
Water gets: Beastfighter (10th choice)
Water gets: Assassin (11th choice)
Air gets: Fighter (14th choice)
Indecisive gets: Farmer (17th choice)
Earth gets: Thief (18th choice)
Fire gets: Mindcrafter (12th choice)

Final counts are:
Fire: Elementalist, Duelist, Monk, Mindcrafter
Earth: Wizard, Ranger, Bard, Thief
Indecisive: Archer, Priest, Healer, Farmer
Air: Druid, Necromancer, Weaponsmith, Fighter
Water: Barbarian, Paladin, Beastfighter, Assassin

[JellySlayer]

I guess there is no real reason for any further delay. Let's get this started.

Here is your first mission.

Mission 1: Treasure Hunt

Objectives:
-Acquire one artifact.
-Bring your PC with the artifact in your inventory to the Mad Minstrel's Glade
-You have 6000 turns to complete all of the objectives in this mission.

You are not permitted to enter any of the following areas. Doing so will result in an automatic failure.

-SMC/UD
-ID
-NDC/Darkforge
-BugWil
-Any CoC level below Dwarftown.
-VDDL/DDL
-High Kings/Maze/Rift/Stone Circle/TOEF/WDC
-Griffyard/Pyramid

Please check with your teammates if these location names are unclear to you.

Mission 2 will be assigned on the 30th, or when all teams have attempted Mission 1, whichever comes first. Please try to keep pace, and inform your team of any absences so that arrangements can be made to accommodate you. You may roll your characters and begin at any time.

[kapak44]

When will Team Mana's classes be assigned? And will we be receiving an extension for Mission 1, since team organization will take at least another day for us?

Oh, and we're still rolling four characters right?

[JellySlayer]

As soon as you post your list, I will assign characters for you. You can have extra time if you need it for Mission 1. If you want to play with 4 (or 5) characters and just play double turns, that's fine until more people join, that's fine with me if you want. Or just leave the unplayed ones behind. Up to you. Your next two races will be Dark Elf and Drakeling.

[Superteeth]

So I am guessing we are on the honor system for no re-rolling chaos knights for good corruptions, right? Can we re-roll for starsigns? Stats? Or do we just go into character creation, pick a gender and the appropriate race/class, and save, with no re-rolling?

Also, is the turn counter of 6,000 applying to each mission separately, or for the number of missions assigned times the turn limit per mission (6,000)? For example, if I were to complete the first mission in 3,000 turns, would we have 9,000 turns to do the next one (for a total of 12,000 turns, 2 missions times 6,000 turns), or would we still only have 6,000 (starting from 3,000, and ending at 9,000)?

[grobblewobble]

No rerolling allowed, Superteeth. And 6k for each.

[Ravenshire]

I'm new to the Forums but have been playing ADOM since 05 still a newbie in my eyes as I've yet to have a character make it past the Casino (have one there but cautious to play it further). interested in signing up to play with everyone have been reading a lot of the forums recently as i have a very promising paladin in the works.

[JellySlayer]

So I am guessing we are on the honor system for no re-rolling chaos knights for good corruptions, right? Can we re-roll for starsigns? Stats? Or do we just go into character creation, pick a gender and the appropriate race/class, and save, with no re-rolling?

No rerolls. Yes, most of this will be run on honor system.


Also, is the turn counter of 6,000 applying to each mission separately, or for the number of missions assigned times the turn limit per mission (6,000)? For example, if I were to complete the first mission in 3,000 turns, would we have 9,000 turns to do the next one (for a total of 12,000 turns, 2 missions times 6,000 turns), or would we still only have 6,000 (starting from 3,000, and ending at 9,000)?

Each mission has a separate turn counter. If you finish early, those remaining turns are lost. But there's always good things to do with them. Most of the missions, you'll have to travel to some location (eg. Minstrel Glade) to finish, so you'll be able to plan out what you want to do to finish. Not all missions are exactly 6000 turns. A few are longer and I think one or two are shorter.

@Ravenshire: I've added you to Team Mana. Go ahead and join that thread to get organized.

If there are any other rule questions or things like that, please ask for clarification.

[JellySlayer]

I've noticed a couple teams making "test characters". I don't have a problem with people who aren't familiar with speed play or particular R/Cs trying them out to understand how they work, but it does feel a little suspicious to me having people running part of the mission, dying, and then saying "Okay, that was my test character, now let's try the real one". We're working on the honor system here, but, it's either one or the other. Post your real character immediately upon creation so that there is no confusion (you need to do this anyway so if you die your save still exists). Ideally, do this before you start playing your test characters.

[kapak44]

Sorry if this hasn't been covered, but should gender be chosen randomly, or are we allowed to select it when creating our chars?

[JellySlayer]

You can pick your own gender.

[Superteeth]

Hey, it's like everybody gets TWO chances at the first mission!

On that note, it's not like it really matters all that much. If a team cannot get a character past the first couple of missions successfully, they will be pretty far behind and more or less unable to do the missions after that, right? For example, say a character died on the first mission. The character moves into another person's hands for the next mission, but has to start over from the beginning, right? And since the turn counter is applied per mission, doesn't that mean that they will only have 6,000 turns to do whatever others did in 12,000? Or do they have 12,000 turns to do the second mission?

[JellySlayer]

Hey, it's like everybody gets TWO chances at the first mission!

No? You get one character. You generate them right away, and that's the character that counts. You can play as many other characters as you want in the interim. I don't care. Those characters aren't part of the challenge. What I don't want to see is people playing "practice characters" and then deciding to keep them as their real character when they succeed. Or deciding that their real character was really a "test character" when they die.


On that note, it's not like it really matters all that much. If a team cannot get a character past the first couple of missions successfully, they will be pretty far behind and more or less unable to do the missions after that, right? For example, say a character died on the first mission. The character moves into another person's hands for the next mission, but has to start over from the beginning, right? And since the turn counter is applied per mission, doesn't that mean that they will only have 6,000 turns to do whatever others did in 12,000? Or do they have 12,000 turns to do the second mission?

Dead characters will get some extra turns for their next mission. I think probably 50% extra. So if you die in mission 1, you'll have 9000 turns to complete mission 2. If you don't die, but don't succeed (eg. run out of time), you probably won't get any extra turns, because you'll still keep all of the benefits of the previous round.

[SirTheta]

Hey, I just got around to testing the posted saves, and they work on Linux, but you MUST use the 64-bit Debian (or Ubuntu) version. This means 32-bit saves are out, i.e. if you roll on the server and DL, some people will NOT be able to play it.

[Mobius]

It's easy: Post your initial Save to your thread, and that is the real one. Everything else you do is your own time, except when playing that svg. Post it on turn 1, for honesty

[Superteeth]

No? You get one character. You generate them right away, and that's the character that counts. You can play as many other characters as you want in the interim. I don't care. Those characters aren't part of the challenge. What I don't want to see is people playing "practice characters" and then deciding to keep them as their real character when they succeed. Or deciding that their real character was really a "test character" when they die.

Well, there you go. That is how people can get "two" chances (not two characters) in the first mission. They can be playing a character, upload it from turn 0, but consider it their test character. But if they are successful with it, it is no longer a test character. However, if they are unsuccessful with it, well, it was just a test character. Or someone could upload a character file, run a test run, die, and then use that same character for the real run. I'm not really concerned with how it will make the game unfair to an extent (because it can only happen in the first round), just felt like pointing it out. After all, there is no way to tell the difference.

[Soirana]

Well, there you go. That is how people can get "two" chances (not two characters) in the first mission. They can be playing a character, upload it from turn 0, but consider it their test character. But if they are successful with it, it is no longer a test character. However, if they are unsuccessful with it, well, it was just a test character. Or someone could upload a character file, run a test run, die, and then use that same character for the real run. I'm not really concerned with how it will make the game unfair to an extent (because it can only happen in the first round), just felt like pointing it out. After all, there is no way to tell the difference.
In my world that is called savescumming. Boo.

[grobblewobble]

Superteeth I think Jellyslayer is just grudgingly accepting things that already went wrong. He isn't allowing anyone to go ahead and mess things up even more.

[Superteeth]

Did this happen last time an ADOMPossible challenge took place? I actually was reading some of the most recent posts in other peoples' threads (I know, bad form), and I did see people were talking about rolling "test" characters, which I thought was rather odd and against the rules (unspoken rules, anyways).

[Soirana]

Did this happen last time an ADOMPossible challenge took place? I actually was reading some of the most recent posts in other peoples' threads (I know, bad form), and I did see people were talking about rolling "test" characters, which I thought was rather odd and against the rules (unspoken rules, anyways).
Pretty sure in past challenges savscumming was not involved. Or at least not made public.


Not all missions are exactly 6000 turns. A few are longer and I think one or two are shorter.
Let me see if I got it. I need to be at aproxim 6k or strictly under?

[grobblewobble]

Did this happen last time an ADOMPossible challenge took place? I actually was reading some of the most recent posts in other peoples' threads (I know, bad form), and I did see people were talking about rolling "test" characters, which I thought was rather odd and against the rules (unspoken rules, anyways).

Rolling a character and later saying it was only a "test character" is not allowed by the rules afaik. Our own team is in the red with this, so we're not exactly in a position to complain to the judge about whatever other teams are doing.

Jellyslayer, in fact I would like an official judgement about what is to be done with our dwarven fighter. Personally I think it's understandable that Sylph got confused about the starting date, but please let us know how to continue from here.

[GordonOverkill]

Well, I did two test runs for two of our race-char-combos myself. Didn't think that was anyhow critical because we had not even decided who played which character and, well, I called them "Testit" and "Testicle". Just thought it would be quite practical to get a feeling for how much time you need for particular strategies. Our team also made one successful test run and still we didn't pretend it was a "real" run, so I am really quite sure that we don't use it for cheating.

e: If someone REALLY wanted to cheat, it would be extremely stupid to spread a test character story around it. You'd just roll a new char and don't tell anyone about your loss. Noone (except your spineless self) would ever know about it. A minimum of trust is indispensable if this challange should be any kind of fun.

[Silfir]

I'm not sure what the fuss is about. We've all got ADOM installed on our machines, and no supervision software - we can do whatever the hell we want anyway. All competitions so far have worked on the honor system and everything worked out fine. As Gordon rightfully points out, those who are publicly talking about all the testing they're doing are perfectly aware of the difference between a test run and the real thing. It's not like this is a new thing. People also did test UD runs in the last Mission: ADOMPossible, way back when.

[Soirana]

I'm not sure what the fuss is about. We've all got ADOM installed on our machines, and no supervision software - we can do whatever the hell we want anyway. All competitions so far have worked on the honor system and everything worked out fine. As Gordon rightfully points out, those who are publicly talking about all the testing they're doing are perfectly aware of the difference between a test run and the real thing. It's not like this is a new thing. People also did test UD runs in the last Mission: ADOMPossible, way back when.

Scroll the page up and read first post on this page. Now please tell me anyone claimed this being legal before.

[GordonOverkill]

Well, there you go. That is how people can get "two" chances (not two characters) in the first mission. They can be playing a character, upload it from turn 0, but consider it their test character. But if they are successful with it, it is no longer a test character. However, if they are unsuccessful with it, well, it was just a test character. Or someone could upload a character file, run a test run, die, and then use that same character for the real run. I'm not really concerned with how it will make the game unfair to an extent (because it can only happen in the first round), just felt like pointing it out. After all, there is no way to tell the difference.

110% bullshit. If people want two, three or a billion chances, it's the easiest thing in the world to play as often as you want and just not tell anybody about it.
What I know for sure is that I do not want to spend my weekends discussing with paranoid fuddy-duddy nitpickers, so please stop this... whatever it may be.

[grobblewobble]

Gordon this is not about you. Of course it is perfectly OK to test a bit (in the way you did).

Let me explain exactly what happened. Just after JS said "now go ahead and start" Sylph created our dwarf fighter and played the mission, ending in success. Then Superteeth said "you were supposed to start on Saturday" and Sylph thought she had illegally started too early and that this invalidated the character. So she abandoned this character and played on with it just for fun, saying she would create the "real" character later.

I asked her to leave the original character where it is and now I'm asking JS what we are supposed to do next. If it is ruled that we have to continue with the original character we automatically lose the second mission because it's been played past 12k turns.

Go ahead and read the Team Air thread to see for yourself.

Hope this clears the confusion.

[GordonOverkill]

I'd say she just starts again with another char. It would be rediculous if your team lost this point only because of a misunderstanding. Team Water is going to win the competition on the battlefield, not on some lawyer's desk.
However, I am trying to make a general point for test runs. Testing, discussing the results and creating a strategy within your team is in my eyes what makes this competition really unique, so it would be extremely sad if it would be prohibited. And, like I said, there are much easier ways to cheat, so we just have to trust each other.

e: I will gladly accept your invitation to read your thread... after our team has won the challange.

[grobblewobble]

I'd say she just starts again with another char. It would be rediculous if your team lost this point only because of a misunderstanding. Team Water is going to win the competition on the battlefield, not on some lawyer's desk.
Thank you Gordon, that's kind. But I would like a word from the judge, just to be sure.

[Silfir]

I will gladly accept your invitation to read your thread... after our team has won the challange.

You have my full agreement on all statements made.

However, I fear I must address something, lest I die of spontaneous combustion. This is at least the second time I've seen you spell it "challange". It's challenge.

I know this makes me the worst kind of klugscheisser. But the thing is, I would want someone to tell me. I will take any abuse I take in exchange with a heavy heart, but stoic silence.

[Soirana]

e: I will gladly accept your invitation to read your thread... after our team has won the challange.

Jesus, times do change I do recall trying force not reading other team threads few years ago... with very tragic results.

On other hand I mus admit I did read other teams citing me in their threads. Wait should this be inappropriate or something?

[Mobius]

I'd say she just starts again with another char. It would be rediculous if your team lost this point only because of a misunderstanding. Team Water is going to win the competition on the battlefield, not on some lawyer's desk.
However, I am trying to make a general point for test runs. Testing, discussing the results and creating a strategy within your team is in my eyes what makes this competition really unique, so it would be extremely sad if it would be prohibited. And, like I said, there are much easier ways to cheat, so we just have to trust each other.

e: I will gladly accept your invitation to read your thread... after our team has won the challange.


Thanks for the support G.O. In the thread, I had a feeling of helplessness seeing things unfold, not being able to say WAIT, let it sit!

And Slifir, you complain about 'challagne' but not 'rediculous', spelled 'ridiculous'. But I do like 'klugscheisser' - even if I can't say it in front of my kids.
(google translate says 'smart aleck', but suspect it's less genteel)

[Mobius]

Specific quote for the defense:

O
It begins saturday?!? Noooo! I thought Jellyslayer said it was beginning right away!
I already had my save in the minstrel's dwelling! Level 12, blessed potion of exchange, spenseweed, and *2* artifacts!!!!

Never mind, I'll create a new one at midnight. Deleting this one now... Got some strategy thoughts from it though.... Quick note - without the VDDL, gremlin cave is a massive trap - disaster waiting to happen: I didn't get the phial, and almost lost my character!
Loving dwarf fighters though! More after my film and teatime. x

Mission success, but that sinking feeling of breaking the rules. And tea.

--
I do suggest having a standard practice from here forward - You must post your turn one character in the challenge thread before embarking on the first mission. This will make clear the test / real distinction (and also if you die in first mission, you are supposed to start from the prior save, right?

[Silfir]

Thanks for the support G.O. In the thread, I had a feeling of helplessness seeing things unfold, not being able to say WAIT, let it sit!

And Slifir, you complain about 'challagne' but not 'rediculous', spelled 'ridiculous'. But I do like 'klugscheisser' - even if I can't say it in front of my kids.
(google translate says 'smart aleck', but suspect it's less genteel)

As I said, I've seen him write "challange" before, so I had reason to assume it wasn't an accident.

My preferred translation of "Klugscheißer" would be "Shitter of Wisdoms". (Not children-suitable even by German standards, yes!) A less vulgar German term for it is "Besserwisser", which one might translate as "know-it-better", so a close match for the English know-it-all.

[Cactus]

Hi everybody,
just played my first mission and made it to the hut on turn 5900. Scrolling through my final inventory, I then stupidly read the manual of bridge building. Honestly didn't think reading that would take so long (turn 6013). Hope that's ok!

[GordonOverkill]

You have my full agreement on all statements made.

However, I fear I must address something, lest I die of spontaneous combustion. This is at least the second time I've seen you spell it "challange". It's challenge.

I know this makes me the worst kind of klugscheisser. But the thing is, I would want someone to tell me. I will take any abuse I take in exchange with a heavy heart, but stoic silence.

Thanks ;-) Guess I deserve it since I messed up the first mission with out barbarian...

[JellySlayer]

No problem Cactus.


Gordon this is not about you. Of course it is perfectly OK to test a bit (in the way you did).

Let me explain exactly what happened. Just after JS said "now go ahead and start" Sylph created our dwarf fighter and played the mission, ending in success. Then Superteeth said "you were supposed to start on Saturday" and Sylph thought she had illegally started too early and that this invalidated the character. So she abandoned this character and played on with it just for fun, saying she would create the "real" character later.

I asked her to leave the original character where it is and now I'm asking JS what we are supposed to do next. If it is ruled that we have to continue with the original character we automatically lose the second mission because it's been played past 12k turns.

Go ahead and read the Team Air thread to see for yourself.

Hope this clears the confusion.

It looks like it was an honest mistake. Slyph can restart.


Well, there you go. That is how people can get "two" chances (not two characters) in the first mission. They can be playing a character, upload it from turn 0, but consider it their test character. But if they are successful with it, it is no longer a test character. However, if they are unsuccessful with it, well, it was just a test character. Or someone could upload a character file, run a test run, die, and then use that same character for the real run. I'm not really concerned with how it will make the game unfair to an extent (because it can only happen in the first round), just felt like pointing it out. After all, there is no way to tell the difference.

Well, sure, I can't stop you from savescumming. It's definitely against the rules to do so. But I can't enforce it. Like all challenges here, we have to play on the honour system. If you want to cheat in an online forum challenge that gives no prizes and is just for fun, I can't stop you. It just makes you a bad person.

[Superteeth]

110% bullshit. If people want two, three or a billion chances, it's the easiest thing in the world to play as often as you want and just not tell anybody about it.
What I know for sure is that I do not want to spend my weekends discussing with paranoid fuddy-duddy nitpickers, so please stop this... whatever it may be.

But see, I am not a paranoid fuddy-duddy nitpicker (By the way, I like your choice of words). I said I did not care if people did so, anyways, because there is no way to tell the difference. Therefore, there is no point complaining about it. I wouldn't be participating in the challenge if I thought everyone would cheat to get ahead. It's easier to just trust that everyone is playing the challenge as intended. This never came up until JellySlayer said something in this thread about test characters, and that got me thinking about the possibility that someone could cheat (it had honestly never really crossed my mind before). I apologize if I offended anyone with my statements, because I really was only pointing out the possibility that someone could cheat.

[Soirana]

I would still like to know if ending on t 6010 would be legal or not. Just to know how much dramatics to put in run for ministrel hut in the report.

[JellySlayer]

I'll give 50 turns grace on ending, Soirana. 6013 is okay. 6051 is not.

[Mobius]

I'll give 50 turns grace on ending, Soirana. 6013 is okay. 6051 is not.

Hmm. I certainly could have dorked around more then. I ended up wasting a bunch of turns because I didn't want to cut it close. Ah well.

(I actually saved at 5999, don't tell anybody!!)

[prototypeXXsupercool]

Hi everybody,
just played my first mission and made it to the hut on turn 5900. Scrolling through my final inventory, I then stupidly read the manual of bridge building. Honestly didn't think reading that would take so long (turn 6013). Hope that's ok!

From a roleplaying point of view you have been at the ministrals hut all the time from turn 5900 to 6013 (including turn 6000).
From an engine point of view you gambled to make the most out of your time and lost.

From my point of view I'm fine with both ways :-)

[grobblewobble]

Any tips how to keep the filesize of camstudio recordings limited? I'm getting these humongous avi monstrosities of hundreds of MBs.

[kapak44]

This is the class list for Team Mana:


1. Archer
2. Wizard
3. Barbarian
4. Priest
5. Druid
6. Duelist
7. Monk
8. Paladin
9. Ranger
10. Healer
11. Elementalist
12. Weaponsmith
13. Beastfighter
14. Fighter
15. Assassin
16. Necromancer
17. Bard
18. Mindcrafter
19. Thief
20. Farmer
21. Merchant

[grobblewobble]

My attempt at mission 1..

http://youtu.be/mX9h8w05Jto

[Ravenshire]

just finished watching your attempt don't want to sound mean but that had me laughing a lot i had to back up the video to try and figure out what happened. seems to always be what happens to me have a character doing really good then make one mistake and its all gone.

[Mobius]

My attempt at mission 1..

http://youtu.be/mX9h8w05Jto

wow. why does hitting the d. guardian cause the shopkeeper to think you are stealing, go aggro?

[Iridia]

Is it too late to sign up? Or should I wait 'til the next event?

[JellySlayer]

There is one space left in Team Mana. I'll add you in.

[Superteeth]

wow. why does hitting the d. guardian cause the shopkeeper to think you are stealing, go aggro?

I think the shopkeeper always gets mad when you attack anyone in Dwarftown. Once I was shooting at the greater daemon and Glod was in the line of fire. The only ones that turned hostile were Glod, Waldenbrook, and his summoned muscular dwarves.

[JellySlayer]

Can teams put up a quick post on this thread when all of their characters have finished the mission, and what their success rates were? Easier for me to get it here than try to search through your individual threads for the scores.

It looks to me like Team Air is the first team to finish with 4 success, 1 failure.

[Mobius]

Team Air

Points: 4/5

Mission one:
Success Siriah: Gnome Druid - treeflower 2122
Success Mobius: Hurthling Weaponsmith - Zephyr - 2160
Success Superteeth: Dark Elf Chaos Knight - Micaryrd - 2130
Success Sylph: Dwarven Fighter - Alsa - 2147
Failure Grobblewobble: Gnome Necromancer - 2156 (died, initial save)

[grobblewobble]

just finished watching your attempt don't want to sound mean but that had me laughing a lot i had to back up the video to try and figure out what happened. seems to always be what happens to me have a character doing really good then make one mistake and its all gone.

Yeah I had to laugh hard too, watching back. ;)

[GordonOverkill]

Thanks for recording, grobblewobble! Enjoyed watching it ;-)

And for those interested, here's the videos of my own epic failure!

Episode 1: Character creation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMPj6YHl-WA&list=UUMWW1k4ZUEB5Fu9EfjYMTUg&feature=c4-overview

Episode 2: Healing skill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsjxm8Owb1s&list=UUMWW1k4ZUEB5Fu9EfjYMTUg&feature=c4-overview

Episode 3: Getting the Si... and a whole lot of trouble
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yaT7BANgiY&list=UUMWW1k4ZUEB5Fu9EfjYMTUg&feature=c4-overview

Episode 4: Versus the rng
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXkTpMljSE8&feature=c4-overview&list=UUMWW1k4ZUEB5Fu9EfjYMTUg

Hope you enjoy my distress ;-)

[Ravenshire]

not sure if you were worried about what the cloak might have been gordon but you had it in your inventory for a very long time picked it up fighting the orc vault
was very interesting to watch being on team mana we only just got our classes yesterday and im also slated to play an orc so watching you play gave me a few pointers on how to handle him in the start. the RNG gods were not with you this day sir hope you have better luck on round 2.

was able to finish my run with team mana's Orc Archer 5500 turns roughly not sure how to get it up on the forums any help would be nice would also like any info on getting a way to record future missions thanks for the help

[JellySlayer]

not sure if you were worried about what the cloak might have been gordon but you had it in your inventory for a very long time picked it up fighting the orc vault
was very interesting to watch being on team mana we only just got our classes yesterday and im also slated to play an orc so watching you play gave me a few pointers on how to handle him in the start. the RNG gods were not with you this day sir hope you have better luck on round 2.

was able to finish my run with team mana's Orc Archer 5500 turns roughly not sure how to get it up on the forums any help would be nice would also like any info on getting a way to record future missions thanks for the help

To post your save, click "Go Advanced" in the bottom right after you reply to thread. You should see an attach file icon on the top row now (paperclip).

[Ravenshire]

i see that but says it to big should i create a verbose file or zip it which would be better

[GordonOverkill]

not sure if you were worried about what the cloak might have been gordon but you had it in your inventory for a very long time picked it up fighting the orc vault
was very interesting to watch being on team mana we only just got our classes yesterday and im also slated to play an orc so watching you play gave me a few pointers on how to handle him in the start. the RNG gods were not with you this day sir hope you have better luck on round 2.


Haha, thanks! I'm still a little angry about that loss... the only thing that helps might be a successful second mission ;-)
I think my big mistakes were:
- equipping the axe ... but well, my char was a barbarian. No serious barbarian could ignore a two-handed axe that is laying right at his feet ;-)
- walking around strained ... just felt too save with my level 8 barbarian with more than 90 HP. I still think that in 19 out of 20 runs this char would not get into any serious danger on these CoC levels.
- reacting to the purple worm poisoning too late ... I knew how deadly their poison is. Even lost one of my youtube chars to these nasty little guys. I should have eaten an antidote the very moment the worm was killed.

However, I am very glad that my teammates are doing an amazing job, so I hope that we will be able catch up during the next missions.

[Iridia]

Okay... so, not only did I enter the UD without realizing (I thought the mission description was just the one in the first post and didn't realize it was banned), but I used the 64-bit version which means the save file is not going to be transferable.

What do I do now? Just generate another dark elven chaos knight in the right version, put it up for the next person to use, and lose the point? Or what?

[SirTheta]

but I used the 64-bit version which means the save file is not going to be transferable.64-bit what? Linux? If so, that's the one that IS transferable - and I'm pretty sure it's the same for Mac. Have your teammates try to open the save.

[szopin]

Forgot to save right after char generation, got a save on move 43 right after talking to druid (gnomish paladin). Should I reroll and keep the new save right after generation, or keep with the current roll?

[Mobius]

Forgot to save right after char generation, got a save on move 43 right after talking to druid (gnomish paladin). Should I reroll and keep the new save right after generation, or keep with the current roll?

I vote that 43 turns in is close enough. Re-rolling is more dubious, IMHO.

[Arbot]

Similar Issue, I didn't realize I needed to create a turn 0 save, I completed the mission successfully and have a save uploaded at turn 57xx sitting in the glade with Si

[Silfir]

Okay... so, not only did I enter the UD without realizing (I thought the mission description was just the one in the first post and didn't realize it was banned), but I used the 64-bit version which means the save file is not going to be transferable.

What do I do now? Just generate another dark elven chaos knight in the right version, put it up for the next person to use, and lose the point? Or what?

JellySlayer, I'd say it's imperative to make sure the first post contains all the mission details. For those who haven't been actively following this thread, it's very, very easy to mess up, and posting incomplete mission details makes that even more likely.

There was also nothing in the first post about creating an initial save, or if it is there, it's probably very easy to miss.

With all that in mind, I would say the fairest thing would be to be lenient now, and make sure everything is as crystal clear as possible starting with mission 2 so actually following the rules without hunting inside this thread (which might well grow beyond reasonable proportion as the competition continues) becomes that much easier.


I'll go ahead and polish up my own thread's first post now.

[Mobius]

JellySlayer, I'd say it's imperative to make sure the first post contains all the mission details. For those who haven't been actively following this thread, it's very, very easy to mess up, and posting incomplete mission details makes that even more likely.
...



maybe we need a missions / score thread? Signup thread / general discussion is 19 pages long, and we're 1/2 through mission 1.

[JellySlayer]

Okay... so, not only did I enter the UD without realizing (I thought the mission description was just the one in the first post and didn't realize it was banned), but I used the 64-bit version which means the save file is not going to be transferable.

What do I do now? Just generate another dark elven chaos knight in the right version, put it up for the next person to use, and lose the point? Or what?

If you would like to reroll your PC and redo the mission, I will allow that. Another team had a similar sort of issue and rerolled, so it seems fair enough to allow you to do the same. This isn't really your fault anyway; I should have included more details in the starting thread.. Otherwise you can keep your character as-is, but forfeit the points for this mission. Up to you and your team.

In future missions, I will take a harder line on these things, but for mission 1 at least, a few mistakes are expected.

@Silfir: I agree. Will fix the first post to include as much detail as I can.

[edit]
maybe we need a missions / score thread? Signup thread / general discussion is 19 pages long, and we're 1/2 through mission 1.

Maybe I'll do this too.

[JellySlayer]

Okay, I've made a new thread with the full rules including some minor changes made in this thread. New missions will be posted there. Please avoid posting in that thread to keep in uncluttered. I've removed most of the above information from the first post of this thread.

A few people have complained about not being able to post your savegame. It seems to help to .zip it. I don't know why they aren't loading properly anymore. I think the pre20+ savegames are bigger and maybe are exceeding some internal limits on the forums or something.

[Mobius]

Maybe I'll do this too.

Thanks!
Question: what if you finish the mission before the 6K limit? I saved at 5999 - do I fail?

[Silfir]

Compressing to zip has shrunk a save file of 1.798 KB into a 77 KB file for me. What in the what.

My conclusion: Zip your savegames, and they will fit perfectly. It's a bit of a shame, since the forum at some point seemed to have specifically introduced the ability to upload .svg. On the other hand, I'm almost sure that there is a bug of some sort there that bloats the file size far with loads of empty data that the compression algorithm gets rid of easily.

[JellySlayer]

Thanks!
Question: what if you finish the mission before the 6K limit? I saved at 5999 - do I fail?

No, you must finish within the turn limit. If you're under, it is no problem.

[JellySlayer]

Haha, thanks! I'm still a little angry about that loss... the only thing that helps might be a successful second mission ;-)
I think my big mistakes were:
- equipping the axe ... but well, my char was a barbarian. No serious barbarian could ignore a two-handed axe that is laying right at his feet ;-)
- walking around strained ... just felt too save with my level 8 barbarian with more than 90 HP. I still think that in 19 out of 20 runs this char would not get into any serious danger on these CoC levels.
- reacting to the purple worm poisoning too late ... I knew how deadly their poison is. Even lost one of my youtube chars to these nasty little guys. I should have eaten an antidote the very moment the worm was killed.

However, I am very glad that my teammates are doing an amazing job, so I hope that we will be able catch up during the next missions.

Have to wonder what your wands were. You did have booze, though possibly not enough turns to booze + blast safely. Then again, could have been light and item detect or something.

[JellySlayer]

Team Earth

Points: 4/5

Mission one:
Success JellySlayer: Troll Thief - Grawl
Failure Frankie Mobius: Gnome Bard - Lucindah
Success Carter: High Elf Wizard - Questor
Success elenie: Dark Elf Ranger - Azatri
Success Sangrealman: Ratling CK - Born to Die

[Harwin]

Team Water:

Cactus: Lanthir, high elven assassin - SUCCESS
GordonOverkill: Sturm Flut, orcish barbarian - FAILURE
Harwin: Mistanarius, mist elven chaos knight - SUCCESS
Silfir: Munn'sheez, drakish beastfighter - SUCCESS
szopin: Groucho, gnomish paladin - FAILURE

Current Score: 3

[JellySlayer]

Reminder to teams, today is the 28th. The first mission will officially end on the 30th (Thursday).

[kapak44]

If I want to do my future runs in .rec format, how would I go about doing this? (In order words, what software do I need?) Or does the forums not allow .rec postings?

[Mobius]

For the corruption for the leading team, how do we handle ties?
So far, we have two 4, one 3, and three lames (I mean not finished yet).
I could imagine either no handicap, or handicaps for all the leaders. If all, then I'd be tempted to fail on purpose, get 4 instead of 5 points on first round to share the 'joy'

[JellySlayer]

If there is a tie, all of the leading teams will get a corruption. If that's worth throwing a mission as far as your team is concerned, well, okay.

[prototypeXXsupercool]

For the corruption for the leading team, how do we handle ties?
So far, we have two 4, one 3, and three lames (I mean not finished yet).
I could imagine either no handicap, or handicaps for all the leaders. If all, then I'd be tempted to fail on purpose, get 4 instead of 5 points on first round to share the 'joy'

As long as your team keeps on failing missions this is nothing you have to worry about, mate. Team Fire is about to play a perfect game here ;-)

[Soirana]

If there is a tie, all of the leading teams will get a corruption.

Currently I am more interested in:
A) what is actual list of "corruptions"
B) how and who picks from that "list".

Since this is not detailed yet I ofcourse will claim it is totally unfair and corrupted in any case.

[JellySlayer]

I'll add the list of corruptions to the updated rules thread. One corruption will be chosen randomly from the list to a random character (not a dead one) on the top team(s) on the leaderboard at the end of the mission.

[edit]Section on corruptions added.

[GordonOverkill]

Haha, JellySlayer, I love you x-D Too bad we're not exactly in the lead at the moment, would love to get one of these corruptions!

[Soirana]

Team Fire

Mission one:
Success prototypeXXsupercool - dwarven monk
Success Sirtheta Grey Elf chaos knight
Success Qui Ratling duelist
Success infe Troll Mindcrafter
Success Soirana hurthling elementalist

Points: 5/5 assuming we can find one missing save at end of mission.

Making list of corruptions after it being clear which teams gets one is super lame.

[GordonOverkill]

Nope, it's supercool! So the leading teams still have hope for a less horrible one and don't lose intentionally ;-)

[Siriah]

That corruption list is fun stuff! I like that it's completely random. That's very much in the spirit of corruption.

Are iron rations meat? They are created by that one super-useful farmer class power...

[Qui]

Nope, they are iron. Says so on the package. Duh.

[JellySlayer]

Rations are fine to eat.

[Soirana]

Rations are fine to eat.

I would assume fried bats and cooked lizards are good too. These are just ratling form of rations, right?

[JellySlayer]

News to me that lizards and bats are vegetables.

[Soirana]

News to me that lizards and bats are vegetables.

News to me that rations on default are for vegans. I strictly believe some pork being involved.

[_Ln_]

IMHO only seeds, melons, candy, fortune cookies, roaches, worms, bread, beeswax, gelee royal, apples, >cursed hurthling cakes and herbs should be allowed.

Maybe gelatinous cubes, margoyles and gargoyles (though I have no idea how those can be eaten).

[Siriah]

As amusing as it would be to have to subsist on the nastier ratling food, I just can't see someone who's revolted by the smell of any meat wanting to eat worms. (it also seems too punishing for characters who can't use the ratling vendors, like chaos knights)

Gelatinous cubes clearly drop delicious jelly upon death. It even has surprises hidden inside from what the cube last ate! :D

[grobblewobble]

Now that we're going totally over the top analyzing whether rations are vegetarian or not, according to the wiki an "iron ration" was a standard used by the US in WW1:


The first attempt to make an individual ration for issue to soldiers in the field was the "iron ration", first introduced in 1907. It consisted of three 3-ounce cakes (made from a concoction of beef bouillon powder and parched and cooked wheat), three 1-ounce bars of sweetened chocolate, and packets of salt and pepper that was issued in a sealed tin packet that weighed one pound.
Not strictly vegetarian but sounds like it comes close.

But Germany had something they called the same (eiserne portion) and of course it had bockwurst meat in it:

The Wehrmacht’s Eiserne Portionen or iron ration was a pre-packaged emergency combat ration somewhat like the U.S. Army’s K-Ration, designed to feed one man for one day, but without the amenities that accompanied the American ration. The iron ration consisted of 250 grams of Zwieback (hard biscuits or crackers) packed in waxed paper, 200 grams of canned Fleischkonserve (tinned meat), and 150 grams of canned Suppenkonserve (either condensed canned soup or Erbswurst, dried split pea sausage that could be reconstituted as a stew).

[Soirana]

Now that we're going totally over the top analyzing whether rations are vegetarian or not, according to the wiki an "iron ration" was a standard used by the US in WW1:

Strictly speaking US iron ration was not for eating it was more emergency thing.

British iron rations started with 1lb of preserved meat...

[JellySlayer]

Okay fine, we won't include rations. It's only 6k turns. Worse comes to worse you can just pray your way through most of it.

[kapak44]

Team Mana:

Okitsgreat: Buiavalaina, the High elven Priest – Failure
Arbot: Arbot the Ratling Healer – Success
Kapak44: Anacalagon, the Drakeling Mindcrafter - Success
Ravenshire: Ravenshire, the Orcish Archer - Success
Iridia: Zhakara, the Dark Elven Chaos Knight – Success

Score: 4/5

[Grey]

How is the dual shield corruption supposed to work if you don't have any shields? And what are the rules on slot restrictions if a cursed item is there?

[JellySlayer]

It's dual wield, not dual shield.

[Soirana]

Okay fine, we won't include rations. It's only 6k turns. Worse comes to worse you can just pray your way through most of it.

Should have stayed silent....

Okay so few more points in rules I am not so sure about.

1. what happens if character at the end of turncoat is alive and doing well, but failed some paramter [not followed "corruption", visited not permitted locations]. No pint gained is clear, but does next player start from same before mission or is free to continue from save after failed mission?
Lots of people believe in later from what I've read.

2.Same but with overplay [especially severe]. Let say after mission save is at 10k instead of 6k with mission targets done.

3.Second mission lasts for 6000 turns [or whatever length is] not to turn 12.000 right? I mean if save at end of mission one is at 6013 can play to 12013 [+50] and if save is at 5020k can play to 11020 [+50], right?

4. Winning team is determined by who's done best in current mission, not in sum of all missions, right? Like there is no reason to keep huge target on few temas who started out well for the whole time...

[prototypeXXsupercool]

Should have stayed silent....

Okay so few more points in rules I am not so sure about.

1. what happens if character at the end of turncoat is alive and doing well, but failed some paramter [not followed "corruption", visited not permitted locations]. No pint gained is clear, but does next player start from same before mission or is free to continue from save after failed mission?
Lots of people believe in later from what I've read.

2.Same but with overplay [especially severe]. Let say after mission save is at 10k instead of 6k with mission targets done.

3.Second mission lasts for 6000 turns [or whatever length is] not to turn 12.000 right? I mean if save at end of mission one is at 6013 can play to 12013 [+50] and if save is at 5020k can play to 11020 [+50], right?

4. Winning team is determined by who's done best in current mission, not in sum of all missions, right? Like there is no reason to keep huge target on few temas who started out well for the whole time...

1. Every player should do everything possible to succeed in the missions or die trying. It would really suck if there is a missions that is considered to hard and everyone ignores it and just keeps on leveling to be prepared for the next mission.

So everyone who fails a mission should be sentenced to death by guillotine!

2. GUILLOTINE!!!

3. Right, I think.

4. Right, again (I think again).

[Cactus]

What about this:
If a "corrupted" character manages to fulfill the mission goals despite his handicap, one could (as a reward) spare his team the corruption for the next mission, even if they are still leading the scoreboard. Instead, the corruption would be assigned to the second-best team.

[Blasphemous]

If they are still leading after the round with a corruption, they should get TWO corruptions in the next mission, to hold them back even more, if they are doing so well.

[Soirana]

If they are still leading after the round with a corruption, they should get TWO corruptions in the next mission, to hold them back even more, if they are doing so well.

I am always amused how these forums like idea of punishing wining. Well, I guess most of you are sore loosers in life too.

[Silfir]

Starting from 6013, the mission still must be done by 12000. That's how it's always worked. It's not even a question.

I don't really see the point of all the bickering.

[SirTheta]

Starting from 6013, the mission still must be done by 12000. That's how it's always worked. It's not even a question.Does it? Doesn't this imply that if you finish 2k turns early you have an extra 2k turns to complete the next mission (which has already been implied/stated as definitely not true)? Otherwise we're being kind of inconsistent here...

[Silfir]

No, it doesn't, and no, we aren't. Assuming the second mission has a time limit of 6000 turns, that's how long you have. Start from 5500, you have until 11500. This really is not that hard.

There's some leeway for accidental overplaying because of stuff like multi-turn activities, such as accidentally reading bridge building manuals, but every turn overdrawn on the first mission's limit gets deducted from the second mission. That's only fair. You can only lose turns on the turn limit due to your own mistakes; there's no way to get extra turns. That's perfectly consistent, and we've done it like that since the very first Weakest Link. (Which Soirana also participated in, so I have no idea how this manages to become an issue for him again.)

[Soirana]

No, it doesn't, and no, we aren't. Assuming the second mission has a time limit of 6000 turns, that's how long you have. Start from 5500, you have until 11500. This really is not that hard.

There's some leeway for accidental overplaying because of stuff like multi-turn activities, such as accidentally reading bridge building manuals, but every turn overdrawn on the first mission's limit gets deducted from the second mission. That's only fair. You can only lose turns on the turn limit due to your own mistakes; there's no way to get extra turns. That's perfectly consistent, and we've done it like that since the very first Weakest Link. (Which Soirana also participated in, so I have no idea how this manages to become an issue for him again.)


The way I recall it being done in weakest link was if you are doing mission x and turn limit is y overall turn limit is xy despite where turnwise mission x-1 ended. That is not the way you advocate and why you cover that thing by false precedent is beyond me.

[Grey]

I think the 50 turn leeway should never have been there and Soirana should be booted out for being so incompetent on his turn.

Ah, sorry, wrong thread for that :P

Anyway, I agree with Soirana's rules assessments. The 6k -> 12k thing is pretty irrelevant overall, and in terms of rules consistency for *this* challenge it would be better if everyone just had the target of T+6k. Apart from those that overplay - they should just get kicked out for gross incompetence.

And mission fail characters should live, otherwise there's no point to the missions. There should be missions many of us would expect to fail without just dying.

[Iridia]

I am always amused how these forums like idea of punishing wining. Well, I guess most of you are sore loosers in life too.We have to. Otherwise, low-skill people couldn't compete with high-skill people and we wouldn't all get to participate or else not have a hope of winning. It's like a golf handicap.

[Soirana]

We have to. Otherwise, low-skill people couldn't compete with high-skill people and we wouldn't all get to participate or else not have a hope of winning. It's like a golf handicap.

Isn't it cured by having teams?

And also believe low skilled are better fighting fair and learning than looking for "golf handicaps" else they always bee mud crawlers.

[Mobius]

I think the 50 turn leeway should never have been there and Soirana should be booted out for being so incompetent on his turn.

Ah, sorry, wrong thread for that :P

Anyway, I agree with Soirana's rules assessments. The 6k -> 12k thing is pretty irrelevant overall, and in terms of rules consistency for *this* challenge it would be better if everyone just had the target of T+6k. Apart from those that overplay - they should just get kicked out for gross incompetence.

And mission fail characters should live, otherwise there's no point to the missions. There should be missions many of us would expect to fail without just dying.

I'd say, if you can't complete the mission by ~6k turns, you should have to save and pass it on, no matter where you are.
Same for every other mission, 12K, 18K, etc. (allowance for characters dying, etc.)

To make the math easier, I don't want an early end to the first mission, say 5999, to require an ending of 11999 to match - just a flat end at 12K no matter what turn you started on.

[_Ln_]

Isn't it cured by having teams?

And also believe low skilled are better fighting fair and learning than looking for "golf handicaps" else they always bee mud crawlers.

Tell me again how "balanced" our teams are and how this can be reasonably achieved when there is no knowledge whatsoever about 75% of partcipants' skill in ADOM.

[Harwin]

What about this:
If a "corrupted" character manages to fulfill the mission goals despite his handicap, one could (as a reward) spare his team the corruption for the next mission, even if they are still leading the scoreboard. Instead, the corruption would be assigned to the second-best team.

The corruption may or may not be a handicap. If you get "can't cast spells" on a barbarian, it's not a handicap at all, so I don't think they deserve a reward.
Neither should they get 2 corruptions for overcoming it.

[Harwin]

I'd say, if you can't complete the mission by ~6k turns, you should have to save and pass it on, no matter where you are.
Same for every other mission, 12K, 18K, etc. (allowance for characters dying, etc.)

To make the math easier, I don't want an early end to the first mission, say 5999, to require an ending of 11999 to match - just a flat end at 12K no matter what turn you started on.

I agree it makes the math easier, but I don't think we should allow it at 1 to 1. I finished my playthrough around 5099, because some thing started to go wrong for me and I felt it better to end early rather than risk having it go wrong. And I could have wandered around the wilderness, but that causes its own problems later on potentially with increased background corruption. Since I made a deliberate decision to end early to make the mission more likely to succeed, I don't think I should be rewarded by getting extra turns on the next mission.

At the very least, if I was supposed to be rewarded that way, I should have known about it before the competition started. I'm sure many people would have finished early (rather than risking reading a manual of bridge building etc) to pass the turns onto the next guy.

[Soirana]

At the very least, if I was supposed to be rewarded that way, I should have known about it before the competition started. I'm sure many people would have finished early (rather than risking reading a manual of bridge building etc) to pass the turns onto the next guy.

If turns pass it realistically makes optimal to bank as early as possible especially if next mission targets are unknown.

[prototypeXXsupercool]

And mission fail characters should live, otherwise there's no point to the missions. There should be missions many of us would expect to fail without just dying.

Please tell me what exactly is the point to the missions, if you are better off completly ignoring one, when the odds are against you, than trying to archive it?

[Mobius]

Please tell me what exactly is the point to the missions, if you are better off completely ignoring one, when the odds are against you, than trying to archive it?

Tactics, strategy. And you can't win if you don't at least win many missions.
It's a 'Hail Mary' maneuver. And who judges 'completely ignoring' vs half assed effort vs very, very cautious and running away.

Is it against the rules to intentionally die if you do something really dumb with your character - eg piss off dwarftown?

[Soirana]

Tell me again how "balanced" our teams are

Most teams [except maybe mana] seems have to be have at least one of each - presumably good players, ones in which hands archmage can perish and people I have no clue about. Seems to be okay to me.

Now from games I played from casual to competitive [which is quite a pile] I don't really recall any handicaps fro winners or trying to balance out. Well, honestly the only handicap which springs to mind is in go, but well again go has no room for randomness.
Most of other games treat well know teams/players [and some blow out competition out of water and blow out water too - if only just for kicks] as positive/stimulating factor.

Now why I think all this "golf handicap" thing is crap is mostly cause there is always optimal strategy/behaviour line. Handicap pushes that line of being good to certain limit instead of trying to pull best of you. Once you get that line you also get behaviour there every fecken thing is delayed cause first thing you need is to figure there that "just good enough but not punishable" line is.
If you need example.... Well, looking back I sorta believe for team Fire it would have been better to postpone chaos knight and after seeing some results sabotage chaos knight by going to Id to install teleport control. That way we would have solved long term issue, while pushing few other teams at "punishment receiving".
Be sure some competitive brain part of mine is screaming in disgust for not doing that.

[Harwin]

If turns pass it realistically makes optimal to bank as early as possible especially if next mission targets are unknown.

Exactly. And since we didn't agree to it *before* the competition started, I don't think we should pass them on now. If you ended at 5523, end the next mission at 11523.

[JellySlayer]

I'll respond to this part first. Hopefully the rest will be made clear.


Okay so few more points in rules I am not so sure about.

1. what happens if character at the end of turncoat is alive and doing well, but failed some paramter [not followed "corruption", visited not permitted locations]. No pint gained is clear, but does next player start from same before mission or is free to continue from save after failed mission?
Lots of people believe in later from what I've read.

2.Same but with overplay [especially severe]. Let say after mission save is at 10k instead of 6k with mission targets done.

From rules thread:

-Character who are unable to fulfill their missions (ie. run out of turns, fail in some other way) may be continued forward in the next mission. If you are deemed to have intentionally failed a mission in order to access unallowed areas or spend copious amounts of extra turns in play, this may be counted as a death at my discretion.

Clear enough? If you don't want to try to finish (or fail for other reasons) and just want to spend time building up your character, and take a point penalty, that's fine. If you take the opportunity to massively overplay or visit a bunch of restricted areas or something, I will just count it as a death.


3.Second mission lasts for 6000 turns [or whatever length is] not to turn 12.000 right? I mean if save at end of mission one is at 6013 can play to 12013 [+50] and if save is at 5020k can play to 11020 [+50], right?

For simplicity, I won't count small overplays against you. If you are at 6013, next player has to 12013. You don't bank turns if you finish early either. 5500 finisher has to 11500. Obviously, it's best to try to use almost all of your turns if you can. Using only 4k turns in a 6k mission will not be so helpful to your team.


4. Winning team is determined by who's done best in current mission, not in sum of all missions, right? Like there is no reason to keep huge target on few temas who started out well for the whole time...

By mission.

[Blasphemous]

Now why I think all this "golf handicap" thing is crap is mostly cause there is always optimal strategy/behaviour line. Handicap pushes that line of being good to certain limit instead of trying to pull best of you. Once you get that line you also get behaviour there every fecken thing is delayed cause first thing you need is to figure there that "just good enough but not punishable" line is.

I couldn't agree more on this.

I was already thinking along these lines:
First, let's figure out what our most robust/efficient character is.
Then deliberately fail a mission, knowing very well that we can more than make up for it later, once the character is full-blown and ready for ToEF or later - to grab Nurgy/Shraxx by the balls.
Rinse and repeat as required, mission-dependent.

That way we would continuously end up just a tiny fraction of points behind the leading team, ready to leap ahead at the right moment and win, without suffering any consequences of special corruption(s).
Being 2nd or third team would actually pay off in the long run, much more than consistently being the top dog but always having to suffer some retarded corruptions to artificially restrict our not-so-great advantage over the other teams.
We would know exactly what we did to set ourselves back since it would be a controlled process, and we would have better control over the game than teams with unpredictable random corruptions potentially screwing them up big time only because they happened to finish previous missions flawlessly.

Now that I think about it, those special corruptions should be discarded entirely.

[grobblewobble]

Oh look, the guy who was first complaining that this competition is soooo boring without special challenges is now complaining because he's getting a special challenge.


I was already thinking along these lines:
First, let's figure out what our most robust/efficient character is.
Then deliberately fail a mission, knowing very well that we can more than make up for it later, once the character is full-blown and ready for ToEF or later - to grab Nurgy/Shraxx by the balls.
Rinse and repeat as required, mission-dependent.

Remember that a corruption lasts only for one round. So at most, it's going to cost you one failed mission = 1 point.
Also keep in mind that half of the corruptions are irrelevant for any given character. Oh noes, my barbarian can't cast spells this round.

So deliberately failing a mission to avoid the corruption is never a good idea under the current rules. You are giving up one point in advance, for a possible gain of at most one point.

[Blasphemous]

So deliberately failing a mission to avoid the corruption is never a good idea under the current rules. You are giving up one point in advance, for a possible gain of at most one point.

You can't determine how much such a corruption can potentially hinder a character in a given team. It may not be one point but 2 if the next challenge is difficult and you need to complete the previous one too, because the corruption you had was such an annoyance.
I get your point about the irrelevance of certain corruptions but you also have to consider the other extremity, such as a wizard unable to cast spells. This pretty much means a fail unless you have 20+ pv and a really decent weapon which the vast majority of wizards do not have. The unpredictability of special corruptions is the problem here since you can't plan ahead for that, while it's not true for everything else save for small randoms that typically accompany you throughout the game.

[Soirana]

Clear enough? If you don't want to try to finish (or fail for other reasons) and just want to spend time building up your character, and take a point penalty, that's fine. If you take the opportunity to massively overplay or visit a bunch of restricted areas or something, I will just count it as a death.

At my discretion and bunch is far away from clear. So i visit two restricted areas in order to build character keeping withing turn limit - that is the verdict?

[JellySlayer]

Depends which restricted areas you visit and how much of an advantage I feel you gained. At my discretion. That is as clear as I am willing to commit to. This rule was written intentionally to give me leeway to stop people from trying to game the system.

[Soirana]

Depends which restricted areas you visit and how much of an advantage I feel you gained. At my discretion. That is as clear as I am willing to commit to. This rule was written intentionally to give me leeway to stop people from trying to game the system.

Personally I am gonna treat it as see fit and in case of called death to withdraw from competition. Failure to anounce rules and refusal to clear them up by organizer is by no means fault of player.

[JellySlayer]

Sports do this all the time. Referee has discretion to call the play, and their ruling is final. Soccer/football, rugby, etc.

I don't particularly care if you decide to leave or not, but the rest of Team Fire might want to think about having a plan in place in case you decide to walk away because you don't like the rules.