Fear of the dark?

[Orfeni]

So the deal is - I've been playing the game for a "while" (won only once so far tho), but I can't seem to overcome my aversion towards chaotic alignment :(

I'm scared of picking dark elves, orcs, neromancers etc. as I panic when I see "C" in my bottom right corner. I know it's just a game, but something in me says it's not right. Maybe it's because I'm a "good guy" in real life (not L+ champion tho :P ) and I believe killing, theft and mischief is disgraceful. And it reflects on my behavior while playing games (in general). I always play the good guys, always choosing the good endings, and always helping the oppressed. I desperately try and change my alignment in ADOM to neutral at least. I know it kinda blocks a lot of paths in game, but I cant overcome it :(

So I wanted to ask you guys if anyone has similar thoughts, and if you do - how do you deal with that ;) or if you don't - share your point of view as well ;)

(On the side note, I'm also afraid playing short-life-span races. Whenever I fate-roll an orc, rattling or troll I go "ooohhh nononono it's not gonna fly [shift-Q]" :P )

[vdweller]

Well, I'm not so phobic against C chars, I don't like killing either (in games or real life :) ) but your point of view is OK. Better to dislike evil chars/deeds in games, than grabbing an AK47 and star shooting virtual Afghan terrorists because "'Muricah".

[Stingray1]

I also used to be like that in ADOM, until some people really pissed me off in RL. Now its mostly C characters for me. I channel some anger this way. It sets me at ease in RL, where I remain L+.

Maybe try channeling your anger and get rid of it on Ancardian inhabitants. Roll a few CKs and go for gold.

Edit - Jokes aside. Actually, what made it real easy to start playing C is the realization that you are merely controlling a virtual character. That character is not you and you are not the character, both of you are seperate entities. You. Should respect that and not try and force your views upon the character. Make your character live the way he/she decided to and not the way that you want. It is not you chopping off te farmer's head, it is the character. Although, if you make a dwarven healer murder a dwarven child, that is your doing.

[Siriah]

I prefer to be neutral or better because of the safe altar use and improved access to corruption removal items.
When I start an orc, dark elf or troll, typically I'll try to become neutral by doing the Terinyo quests. It's not really a moral matter for me, as I don't believe my alignment accurately represents whether I've been doing good deeds (you can change it just by sacrificing to a different god, after all). The way "being a hero" really represents itself, for me, is because I have the tendency to always get healing lawfully and always attempt to get to the tiny girl's dog while it is still alive, even when there are other options which might be smarter for a given character.

[Stingray1]

From the 3 posts(not 2nd post) I think one can say that you have 3 basic player types/mindsets. With in between and extreme variants.
1) Those that play as if they are the character.
2) Those that play the character as if the character is alive and the character, aka role-play.
3) Power players, those that will abuse the system/mechanics to make the character as 'strong' as they can.

I have gone from no. 1 to 3 and finally to 2. I'm gonna stick with 2. It is fun, challenging and feels appropriate.

[Orfeni]

Ahh.. too bad i can't edit the topic to add a poll "which player type are you?" ;) wonder what would the majority be like...

[YourMum]

I tend to go neutral fairly quickly as it fits my mind set, as well as being useful in game. I try and roleplay but survivalist instincts take over pretty quickly and all my characters end up as walking tanks unless there us a good reason not to, and all some flavour of neural. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I used to play Jedi Knight, my Jedis were all good guys and I tried to be as evil ad possible when playing ad a Sith but I just felt sorry for all the storm troopers I was disarming, shooting with their own weapons then strangling :-\

[Blasphemous]

I exclusively play L+ characters. Occasional C ones are switched to N or L as soon as feasible.
I mostly enjoy being the good guy and all that. Additionally, I feel that only the good (L) characters truly want to close the chaos gate - C chars after all represent in part the same forces of ChAoS that seek to dominate, twist and corrupt the world of Ancardia.
Why would any C character want to close the gate in the first place rather than joining those who control it and use it for power?
Also, I often play characters that start C and then gradually turn them to L, as a kind of rebirth, washing of sins and eventual redemption ;)

Somebody mentioned that this is a virtual world and just a game.
I feel it's a bit more. Adom plays a bit like you were reading a fantasy book - even though both portray fictional, unreal worlds, you still root out for some characters, usually the good heroes and wish the villains to fail.
This is directly translated (at least in my case) to Adom - I play good chars because I wish for that imagined world to finally defeat the evil forces and live happily ever after.
Typically, I feel that the real world in which we are all forced to live is a variation of a dystopia, with corruption, deceit and struggle for power and control. I cannot change that but I can make up for it with little acts of goodness in an imagined world - hence my preference for L+ characters.
There is a more mundane reason for being L+ in Adom - the game is easier. You don't have to worry about being sacced on a black altar, virtually all monsters are either N or C so there is no problem with saccing them, L+ champions have better situation versus negative effects of corruption etc.

I understand the concept of channeling anger and all the negative feelings into a game but personally I prefer different games for that.
Mortal Kombat is a good one, without always discerning between good and evil (although that basic conflict is of course there) but at the same time just giving you the control over that funny person on the screen and letting you make a mess of some other guy.
That way my anger is effectively vented out through brutality and violence in the fictional world, while my file remains clean in the real world ;)

[anon123]

I can't seem to overcome my aversion towards chaotic alignment :(

*TrY iT, iT wIlL bE fUn!* Ahem, playing a chaotically aligned character can have its merits too.

Some food for thought: http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread.php/12850-The-gameplay-benefits-of-being-chaotic

[magpie]

Yeah, but let's face it - ADOM morality is not the same as real-life morality.

In ADOM, even the most law-abiding of lawful characters regularly, for example, eat other sentient creatures when they get the slightest rumblings of hunger in their belly - by the time an ADOM toon reaches the end-game, you've usually eaten hundreds of them at least. In real-life, even in the most vicious of wars and battles, eating your enemy is usually very much frowned upon. But in ADOM, once it's dead, it's just meat. Doesn't really match up with RL morality, does it? :)

Another example: being swarmed by a pack of blink dogs, and defending yourself, will abuse your lawful status quite a bit. Hang on ... stopping a pack of vicious supernatural hounds from killing you, by killing them, is a chaotic act? Not a very bad one (seems to be less than pick-pocketing), but a chaotic act all the same?

Also, in ADOM, you can off-set the effects of most lawful or chaotic acts simply by wearing an amulet of law (or balance), or by sucking up to a god, or by deliberately killing 'civilians' ... in real life, it's not so simple, is it?

[Stingray1]

Yeah, games are a place where we can escape to from reality, where we can do what we feel like without it having any influence on others. Not muti-players thouh, remember that. Some people seem to miss that one.

By all means be evil in ADOM, this is a place where it is perfectly fine.

[Orfeni]

Believe it or not - I really feel "uneasy" when eating humanoid corpses :D Mostly @'s tho, I don't feel the same about g's and o's ;)

[Utnapishtim]

Congrats Orfeni, it seems that you are able to really immerse yourself in the gameworld and probably get quite a bit more enjoyment out of it that way.

For me the game is foremost a challenge and a question of objectives, strategy, tactics, trying to maximize reward/risk of particular decisions etc. The foremost enjoyment I get is the feeling of having achieved something difficult, and also being creative, finding new ways to accomplish things and new things to accomplish. The roleplaying and fantasy aspects are there, but much more in the background.

That being said, the first time I got the healing by chaotic means, I did pause just for a moment, facing the healer, sighed a bit and thought "Well our character here is a devout adherent of chaotic principles. What has to be done has to be done." So I'm not completely immune. Oh well... at least via backstabbing it was instantaneous, the healer never knew what hit him.

E: Part of the reason why I'm never deeply immersed in the Adom gameworld moralwise is that it's very hard to take the religious and ethical aspects of that world seriously, as many have pointed out. Although I suspect this might be beside the point, as you might feel uneasy eating humanoids in a game even if it was counted as a lawful act in that particular gameworld.

[sylph]

I always revel in playing the character exactly as expected. I make up character personality traits, or quirks, before I play the game, then play through (even more than 1 character) with that set of traits.

For example, I'm currently on a reformed orcish thief. He was brought up evil by his parents, but left for the drakalor chain to do good. His background makes him absolutely fine with all kinds of chaotic activity, as long as the big, important stuff is good. He's take out the minotaur's home, but not assist the black unicorn. He'd pickpocket just about everyone, but wouldn't lead a dwarf off to murder him for a pickaxe.

Before this it was a neutral human fighter, she was desperate to save the world, but even more desperate to prove herself! She was fiercely independant - refusing the sheriff's gold, not collecting healing after rescuing the carpenter, even sneaking past the eternal guardian instead of placating him with the ring!

On the topic of this thread - I look forward to playing a chaotic ratling duelist next, who revels in murder and corruption, so no, I have nothing against playing an evil character. I think the immersion of playing as 'yourself' is great, but gets boring after a while, and playing different characters shakes things up and keeps ADOM interesting.

[anon123]

Believe it or not - I really feel "uneasy" when eating humanoid corpses :D Mostly @'s tho, I don't feel the same about g's and o's ;)

The first time I ate a corpse in NetHack (first roguelike I ever played), I felt the same way: "damnit, that's really gross and disgusting". Over time I was desensitized, most likely because corpses are more easily available than "real" food, and in the end, this is a game and I want to keep my character alive.

And yeah, alignment as implemented in ADOM is a pretty flawed system. You can go from terribly evil to maximum goodness by overfeeding beggars, healing monsters you carefully arranged to indirectly hurt beforehand, self-flagellation marathons, or just buying your way through by sacrificing gold or giving it to Ruun. And somehow, just wearing a certain amulet around your neck can make actions severely less chaotic or lawful if you're neutral.

[Tyrnyx]

I always play neutral. I like the option of having access to training from the thieves guild. I like the fact that I can crown early if I want. I like that I can get all the quests. I really really like the Ring of Ice (although not sure if lawfuls get this along with the Axe). I like the chance of getting scrolls of chaos removal even though I usually get cheated. I never dig graves unless it's a certain dwarfs. I never pickpocket unless it's to get into a Guild. I never attack monsters that are my friends.

But, I'm a power player through and through. I don't think I've ever really "roll played" adom.

[grobblewobble]

I find it hard to feel the immersion too, there is just so little connection between your actions and your alignment. Murder all of dwarftown, sac a few coins to convert, sac the money from their cold bodies and you're a champion of balance / law. The "good" gods looooove blood money.

The best roleplay experience was playing the first chaos knights, before I knew you can convert. The feeling of the whole world being against you is really impressive.

I also still like the cute dog quest. There isn't really any reward for succeeding. (You get the vault and ant corpses, but you don't need to succeed in the quest for that.) Yeah, you get a little L boost, but you could get that same boost far easier in other ways, just grab a bagger and give him all your burb roots. So essentially, it is a quest with *no* reward.
But precisely because there is no reward.. except for seeing the little girl and her dog happy.. it really gives you that warm feeling to do it.

The most intense roleplay moment I ever had in ADOM was when I had a quickling queen companion. I gave her a name and had fun times adventuring with a friend like that. Until we encountered a corruption trap. She stepped into it like 7 times in one of my turns. There was nothing I could do. And then there was "Alice, the writhing mass of primal chaos" attacking me. I never felt such pure horror in a computer game. Died too, of course.