Herb Training Limits

[Hoponpop]

Hello guys, I'm new to the forum, I'm actually Superteeth's little brother. I am by no means new to ADOM, as I've had two legit wins so far, but this is the first times I have encountered this problem, and I was wondering if you guys could answer my question. I have a Level 14 Dark Elven Priest going, and I have been using herbs to train Dexterity, Toughness, and Willpower. I reached my current potential at 24,17, and 17, respectively, but no matter how many herbs I use or eat, the potentials won't seem to increase! This has not happened to me until now, out of the many games I've played. Do you guys know what is going on? :confused:

[SirTheta]

herbs do not increase potential in adom 1.2.0 prereleases after like prerelease 5 or 7 or so.

[Soirana]

herbs do not increase potential in adom 1.2.0 prereleases after like prerelease 5 or 7 or so.

Herbs do not provide training if your stat is at at maximum allowed potential - would be lot of closer to truth technically:).

Overall herbs work with potential assuming you eat butload of them while stat is one point short of potential. So at 17 potential you need 8 butloads of morgia having prepared. Inspiring game feature indeed.

[Hoponpop]

Ahhhhhh, I didn't know they changed that. Thanks for the replies! :D Does this affect Garth's training hall as well?

[SirTheta]

Yeah, sorry, he was already at potential, so I figured I'd simplify it [and that's fixed in p21, so don't get used to it ;)].

[Soirana]

Does this affect Garth's training hall as well?
Nope, it does not.


[and that's fixed in p21, so don't get used to it ;)].
Never saw any announcement of that although.

[SirTheta]

http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1681. Fixed version is p21 and TB's comments from January are after p20 was released.

[Superteeth]

Hello guys, I'm new to the forum, I'm actually Superteeth's little brother. I am by no means new to ADOM, as I've had two legit wins so far, but this is the first times I have encountered this problem, and I was wondering if you guys could answer my question. I have a Level 14 Dark Elven Priest going, and I have been using herbs to train Dexterity, Toughness, and Willpower. I reached my current potential at 24,17, and 17, respectively, but no matter how many herbs I use or eat, the potentials won't seem to increase! This has not happened to me until now, out of the many games I've played. Do you guys know what is going on? :confused:
You fruitcake! Why didn't you check the wiki or guidebook or something before asking this silly question? I could have told you that herbs no longer increase potentials. Make use of your potions of potential stat by blessing them for your really low stats that you can herb train. Garth doesn't work too well either, at least in my experience (although everyone says Garth has not changed, I find that using any amount of money on him is a waste most of the time in 1.2.0.). Fruitcake. Now join the ADOMPossible challenge when someone else drops out. I think there is a space on Team Water.

Edit: I see that the wiki and guidebook do not mention that herbs no longer increase potentials. Plz don't hurt me.

Also, to Soirana, are you sure that using a lot of herbs one point before your potential allows the potential to increase? I have tried that many times, but it doesn't seem to work. The only thing I see working is how you can get over the 25 cap by using a whole lot (I use at least 60, but you probably don't need that many) of the herb at 24 all at once. This sometimes gets me as high as 26-27 (again, this is noted in the wiki or guidebook).

[_Ln_]

You fruitcake! Why didn't you check the wiki or guidebook or something before asking this silly question? I could have told you that herbs no longer increase potentials. Make use of your potions of potential stat by blessing them for your really low stats that you can herb train. Garth doesn't work too well either, at least in my experience (although everyone says Garth has not changed, I find that using any amount of money on him is a waste most of the time in 1.2.0.). Fruitcake. Now join the ADOMPossible challenge when someone else drops out. I think there is a space on Team Water.

Edit: I see that the wiki and guidebook do not mention that herbs no longer increase potentials. Plz don't hurt me.

Also, to Soirana, are you sure that using a lot of herbs one point before your potential allows the potential to increase? I have tried that many times, but it doesn't seem to work. The only thing I see working is how you can get over the 25 cap by using a whole lot (I use at least 60, but you probably don't need that many) of the herb at 24 all at once. This sometimes gets me as high as 26-27 (again, this is noted in the wiki or guidebook).

If you have 15 Toughness with 16 potential eat ~20 morgias and wait for a while. You'll get the stat increase first and then potential increase bringing you to 16/17. Sometimes you get bad rolls and potential doesn't increase at which point you can't continue this tactic. Cast from HP or get drained to allow it again. 20 morgias are relevant for high values, sometimes it is possible to overtrain with fewer roots at very low levels (11-12).
Note that this supposedly won't work in p21 anymore.

[SirTheta]

From what I have read, about 20 morgia [even cursed] very nearly or almost always maxes out training, so you don't need to eat 60; the extra 40 won't do anything.

[Soirana]

http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1681. Fixed version is p21 and TB's comments from January are after p20 was released.

I would not be so sure.



The Creator
I seem to remember fixing this in some prior version but can't find the issue for it. The code indicates that this no longer can happen.

This statement does not indicate any fix after p20 being made. fixed version 21 might be just bookkeeping due to not finding corresponding issue.

Well, we will know once p21 hits the deck. Although as I get - training is not separated in herbal, from corpses, etc so I am rather skeptical about it being easy fixed short of nuking any and all training overflow. But well again I am rather skeptical in general.

For record herb overflow works in p20 so it was not fixed in "some prior version".

[Superteeth]

If you have 15 Toughness with 16 potential eat ~20 morgias and wait for a while. You'll get the stat increase first and then potential increase bringing you to 16/17. Sometimes you get bad rolls and potential doesn't increase at which point you can't continue this tactic. Cast from HP or get drained to allow it again. 20 morgias are relevant for high values, sometimes it is possible to overtrain with fewer roots at very low levels (11-12).
Note that this supposedly won't work in p21 anymore.
Alright, I guess I just got unlucky with the dice roll when I tried that. SirTheta, are you talking about the number of morgia roots you have to eat when you are at 24, or the number you have to eat to get past the potential at any other value? I think I recall eating quite a few more than 20 (around 60 at times), and I only got two more points. Maybe it has to do with the dice rolls?

Speaking of which, if your toughness is at 15 and your potential is at 18, you cannot just eat 12 morgia to get it to 18, right? I remember being able to do that in 1.1.1, but I don't think that works now (as far as I know). So why would potential increase if you have to increase the values (either potential or current value) one at a time?

[JellySlayer]

Alright, I guess I just got unlucky with the dice roll when I tried that. SirTheta, are you talking about the number of morgia roots you have to eat when you are at 24, or the number you have to eat to get past the potential at any other value? I think I recall eating quite a few more than 20 (around 60 at times), and I only got two more points. Maybe it has to do with the dice rolls?

Speaking of which, if your toughness is at 15 and your potential is at 18, you cannot just eat 12 morgia to get it to 18, right? I remember being able to do that in 1.1.1, but I don't think that works now (as far as I know). So why would potential increase if you have to increase the values (either potential or current value) one at a time?

You can sort of do this, but diminishing returns is pretty bad. Eating 12 morgia will get you to 16 for sure, possibly up to 17. Probably not to 18. When you successfully train a stat, you lose a large portion of any leftover training that you had built up. This behaviour has been in place since 1.1.1, though it's possible that it was tinkered with in some intermediate version.

[Superteeth]

I guess stats don't have to increase one at a time. It makes sense, then, that if you are grinding for herbs anyways that you should do it one at a time. Thanks for the clarification, everyone.