Why are HP and PP Regeneration Greater in the Wilderness?

[Superteeth]

As per the thread title, the question is this: Why are HP and PP regeneration greater in the wilderness? For each one step you take in the wilderness, you gain many more PP and HP per turn as opposed to how many you gain in a dungeon. Why?

[Yinghei]

You mean in the main map? That's because it takes up much more time. One turn is worth several hours, while in any other area it is only a few seconds. If you press > on a wilderness square and walk around there time passes normally.

[Superteeth]

No, this cannot be the reason why (or if it is, the behavior is rather inconsistent). I thought that was the reason why as well, but try this: Check to make sure the energy cost for normal movement in the wilderness is 1000 energy points. Check the time using ctrl-e. Move a step in the wilderness. Check how much time has elapsed. Most of the time you will see that about 1 hour has passed each time. For a mist elf with 100 concentration and no potions of raw mana having been used, I regenerate about 15-20 PP each step.

Now, wear blessed seven league boots. These reduce the cost of movement to 750 energy points, but they reduce movement time in the wilderness far more drastically. You will see that most steps in the wilderness take about 10 minutes rather than an hour. However, I still regenerate the same amount of PP, about 15-20.

The reason I tested this out was that my mist elf was killed in the wilderness almost instantaneously while wearing one iron ring (ring of the fish). So I tested PP regeneration, thinking it made sense that I took massive amounts of damage since more time passed in the wilderness as opposed to in the dungeon. The above inconsistent results were found. I thought that maybe they were more consistent with impure metal damage, so I did the same test wearing two iron rings. In one turn, wearing seven league boots (blessed) and exiting into the wilderness from a wilderness square, about 10 minutes passed. I took about 90 damage in those 10 minutes. However, if you are not wearing blessed seven league boots, exiting into the wilderness from a wilderness square causes about an hour to pass, but I still took about 90 damage.

I think an RFE is in order for these inconsistencies. If the reason a mist elf takes such massive damage in the wilderness is the amount of time that passes, then why is the same damage taken regardless of the actual amount of time that passes? The same applies to PP and HP regeneration, which shouldn't be as great as it is if you are wearing seven league boots. In addition, the damage that a mist elf takes in the wilderness due to wearing impure metals can come as quite a surprise to someone exiting a dungeon, since they expect things to be turn-based as they are in the dungeon (instead, they are hit by "Your skin is burned by impure metal!" message spam that kills low level PCs instantly). This is similar to an RFE mentioning that the impure metal damage is taken all at once, followed by the application of regeneration, rather than the two alternating like in a dungeon. I would propose that impure metal damage occur turn by turn so that it is not an instant death for low level PCs (as most things occur turn by turn in this game, except, as far as I can tell, PP and HP regeneration in the wilderness).

[Yinghei]

I'd never noticed that before, I just assumed it was because of time passing. So in that case I have no idea ;)

[Superteeth]

Presumably, that is what Thomas Biskup intended. However, it is inconsistent, as I have pointed out, and it is a really meaningless instant death for mist elven characters that expect to continue to take damage in a turn-based manner once they leave a dungeon. Would anyone support an RFE of this sort if it were submitted?

Edit: By the way, another inconsistency is that corpses act like they are still in the dungeon when you are actually in the wilderness. Wouldn't it make sense that the chances of a corpse rotting depend on elapsed time, rather than turns? In fact, you can hang around outside for a week and a corpse won't rot, but it wouldn't last anywhere near a week in the dungeon, indicating that rotting is turn-based rather than time-based.

[anon123]

I recall reading somewhere that while the turn counter is still increased by 1, every step in the wilderness counts as 15 turns as far as HP/PP regeneration and starvation are concerned. Although it seems this behavior does apply inconsistently to iron burning damage, +Rgen items and/or the platinum girdle's squeezing; that is, they won't have the same effects as waiting 15 turns inside a dungeon.

[Superteeth]

So iron burning damage does 1 point per round per iron item equipped, correct? If the normal counter applied for wilderness movement, then 1 iron item would not mean instant death (15 damage per wilderness turn). It makes sense for an RFE to correct the behavior such that even low-health mist elves would take considerable, but not immediately deadly, damage from walking in the wilderness with iron items (assuming they were on about level 4-5, at which point I had at least 15 health). I think this deserves special consideration without changing the behavior of, say, the Platinum Girdle, since early-game characters cannot acquire the Platinum Girdle anyways.

[SirTheta]

Well, the mist elf thing is a huge bug that will hopefully be fixed at some point [it's pretty fucking serious].

I don't see what's so inconsistent about it. Too much realism hurts the game. Regen is based on turns passed, which breaks down in the wilderness for obvious reasons. The different terrains, etc. all have different move times - (all approx.) 1-2 hours on road, 2-4 in forest, 1-2 in plains, 1-2[1.5] in hills, etc. Trying to implement some sort of multiplier based on time is just kind of pointless - what do you gain? It's not like people are regen-ing in the wilderness a lot, even in the early game. Making it more complicated just makes it more complicated for the sake of making it complicated rather than adding another layer to the game, making it more interesting, or fixing anything.

[Superteeth]

It is inconsistent, even though Thomas Biskup apparently did try to make it more "realistic" (read: buggy). Like I said, even if only 10 minutes passed for the turn I was in the wilderness, I still took approximately 90 damage from wearing an iron item (or two, I don't really remember anymore, even though in my second post I said two). This was the same amount of damage I took when the turn passed in an hour. So it is not only not "realistic", it would be "realism" gone horribly wrong if Thomas Biskup decided to implement it "properly".

Sure, it would be kind of realistic if he did implement it properly (at least if the amount of time that passed was taken into account, one hour results in more damage than 10 minutes), but all it would do is cause many mist elf deaths as people leave dungeons with an iron item equipped since the damage is actually manageable in a dungeon (if not painfully annoying because of the message spam). It would even happen to people who know they shouldn't leave a dungeon with an iron item equipped (similar to how people still accidentally pick up potions or auto-pickup potions with the poison hands corruption) except that poisoning all your potions doesn't kill you instantly.

At any rate, if the ultimate in realism was the goal, then surely a mist elf would notice that their skin was burning (as they do while walking through the dungeons, turn-by-turn) and have an opportunity to take off the iron item as soon as they want to? This does not end up being the case, since 1 hour passes where you cannot do anything when you walk in the wilderness. Because of this, the mist elf just walks (or stands) around getting burned to death by impure metal for an hour. How realistic is that?

Personally, what I would like to see happen is that damage from impure metals occurs turn-by-turn in the wilderness as it does in the dungeons. Other things occur turn-by-turn in the dungeon and wilderness (like duration-type spells), so why not the damage from impure metals? I can draw an analogy for the way impure metal damage is right now with strength of atlas, realism-style. If strength of atlas starts to run out while you are walking in the wilderness, *CRUNCH*, one-turn death, no warning messages [or, as it is with impure metal, you get warning message spam ("You feel your great strength waning") one after another in one turn that you can't stop to do anything about anyways]. That would not be cool, but that is exactly what is happening with mist elves and iron items.

[SirTheta]

again....the mist elf thing is a very serious bug. The damage occurs many, many times per turn [have ITP and equip elemental gauntlets and count # of messages - it's an asston].

Basing your argument on a (I believe acknowledged) very serious bug doesn't really mean much. Yes, it will (hopefully) be fixed. That doesn't mean there's a huge problem with how wilderness healing currently works.

edit: cf.
http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=1472
http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=2245
http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=2686

[Superteeth]

I'm not complaining about the way wilderness healing works, although it isn't realistic either.

I read all of those RFEs already. I guess the reason it seems like I am arguing that it is a bug (when it very clearly is, possibly due to realism gone wrong) is that I lost a great mist elf wizard to it. In the end I said screw it and continued playing her anyways, because it's a really, really stupid bug that caused her death.

Although, what does having ITP have anything to do with it? I know it would allow you to wear one metal item.... wait, I get it now. Impure metal damage seems to have some other (ridiculous) counter, while immune-to-pain has a turn-by-turn counter. ITP probably negates the damage once while in the wilderness, but the impure metal damage counter just keeps going up. Presumably it is similar to how healing and PP regeneration rates are increased in the wilderness although only one turn passes.

[SirTheta]

Well, you were complaining about how wilderness healing works, so I assumed you were, you know, complaining about how wilderness healing works. If that's not the case then sure, it doesn't matter.

None of those things are RFEs. They are all bug reports. Which you agree with [as do I]...I really don't see the problem here. It was already fixed once and acknowledged as a bug, but it didn't really take correctly, so it needs to be fixed again. It's not an inconsistency or what-have-you, it's a serious bug [though I guess this was a good thread to make since it reminded me to chuck that into the must fixes thread].

You only take one damage [at least from like gauntlets or a single ring]. ITP negates that damage even in wilderness when it occurs like 20 times per turn [it negates it every time it hits] - that's how I know damage isn't multiplied but is still 1 damage per burn [which occurs many times per wilderness turn].

[Superteeth]

I wasn't really complaining about how wilderness healing works. That was just how I chose to frame my question as to why the impure metal damage occurred many times rather than once, because I thought that it was because healing and PP regeneration occur many times rather than once in the wilderness. I genuinely thought that the reason that the impure metal damage happened many times was that Thomas Biskup was trying to make it more realistic (you take 1 damage per turn in a dungeon because steps in a dungeon over short distances take about 30 seconds, while damage (and healing) in the wilderness are greater since one turn encompasses a greater distance traveled, along with a larger timestep). Just wanted to make that clear (although I did say that "these inconsistencies may need an RFE").

On the other hand, it doesn't really make sense that a corpse can keep in the wilderness for a week, but can rot instantaneously in the dungeon, but I don't really care either way. I have often taken advantage of that fact with the chaos guardian corpses.