Not sure if this is a bug or a really weak GEE

[Arbot]

Playing a level 14 Bard game has been going pretty well I found an alter in the SMC so I spent time there training up my cave bear and getting precrowned before heading to the CoC. Point being, my bear was pretty buff. He cleared DH 1 and 2 for me saving me from having to worry about the forest (I just wish I had a stethoscope to see his stats.) On my way back to dwarf town I read a blessed SoFS and get a Greater Earth Elemental. On my way back up to dwarf town he gains a few levels killing things and everything seems to be going well. I was planning on clearing the Ogre caves without pets but I descent into a room with an ogre lord, ogre magi and a couple other ogres I decided to bring the pets along. During fight the ogre magi of course went invisible but I don't recall either of my pets doing any damage. I had ordered the GEE to kill the lord and the bear to kill the magi (of which it had already killed a couple.) The bear should have easily killed the magi but since I couldn't see it I do not know if it dealt any damage to it. I ended up killing the whole group myself but not before my bear died. I continued on clearing the caves and my GEE doesn't seem to be doing any damage to anything now despite killing things in the DH without issue.

Save included2458

[SirTheta]

Pets don't do any damage in OC (or rather - their physical damage is strongly reduced, possibly breath attacks, too) - you have to clear it yourself.

http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=888

[Arbot]

I'm confused as to why this is "intentional" if the OC is meant to be cleared without pets then prevent them from following you down. This seems lazy at best and malicious at worst. This makes no sense whatsoever

[magpie]

This seems lazy at best and malicious at worst.

Geez, and I thought people who played other games had a completely unwarranted entitlement syndrome.

ADOM is (basically) the work of one person, who's spent many many hours working on ADOM where he could have been doing his own work.

Lazy, malicious?

From a guy who's got a busy career and a life, and has probably spent at least a year of real-time work, more or less for free (the money he got from the crowdfunding, assuming you even donated to it, is nothing compared to the money he could have made if he'd never made ADOM in the first place - opportunity-cost wise, ADOM has cost him a lot of time and money over the years), in order to make and maintain one of the best games I, and a lot of other people, have ever played?

A suggestion to change the OC so pets can't go down there, rather than a personal attack on Thomas, would have been more appropriate.

Don't be such a whiner.

[Maul]

I'm confused as to why this is "intentional" if the OC is meant to be cleared without pets then prevent them from following you down. This seems lazy at best and malicious at worst. This makes no sense whatsoever

What's "malicious" supposed to mean? Thomas set it up that way to intentionally screw with players? If so, refer to the post above me.

It is a strange design choice, though. Preventing pets from following you down still opens up the possibility of wasting a SoFS in the Ogre Cave (for whatever reason) to get a pet that way, but a better question is: why is this restriction in place? Why must the Ogre Cave be cleared specifically without pets? This is completely arbitrary and makes no roleplaying sense.

[SirTheta]

What's "malicious" supposed to mean? Thomas set it up that way to intentionally screw with players? If so, refer to the post above me.

It is a strange design choice, though. Preventing pets from following you down still opens up the possibility of wasting a SoFS in the Ogre Cave (for whatever reason) to get a pet that way, but a better question is: why is this restriction in place? Why must the Ogre Cave be cleared specifically without pets? This is completely arbitrary and makes no roleplaying sense.


At a guess... probably to avoid problems with a pet fulfilling the quest rather than the PC?

which makes perfect sense.

[Maul]

which makes perfect sense.

I was actually asking why people aren't allowed to use pets to complete the ogre cave. It seems like an awfully random and out of place restriction.

[SirTheta]

I was actually asking why people aren't allowed to use pets to complete the ogre cave. It seems like an awfully random and out of place restriction.and I responded with a quote from the RFE explaining such. (note the "problems with completing the quest" - you will recall that the raider lord quest cannot be completed if killed by a companion. ADOM has some deep problems and some thing aren't possible.)

[Arbot]

I understand the amount of work the Creator has put into this game and I know there wasn't any intent to ruin any characters. My point however is that if your going to do something like this for whatever reason then don't make it so obtuse. The relevant code to prevent monsters from following you already exists (D48) and if nothing else there should be a message about having to clear the caves yourself. "Ye must destroy the tribe yourself to prove your valor" thematically makes more sense. Either of these would have taken at most a couple minutes when that section of the code was already being worked. If a "feature" has been posted as a bug multiple times then perhaps it time to rethink its implementation


assuming you even donated to it I'm not sure how this is relevant to the discussion so please let me know, but I donated more than most to the indiegogo campaign


a personal attack on Thomas I guess you don't understand hyperbole. There are many things in this game that seem unfair or seem like the only point is to murder your character without any warning or chance to react but at least they fit thematically and usually make the game more interesting.

[magpie]

This seems lazy at best and malicious at worst.

Assuming that a video game can't be lazy or malicious, one has to assume you were talking about Thomas, and as I said, that's way out of line.


I'm not sure how this is relevant to the discussion

Because you're acting like Thomas owes you something, rather than doing the civilised thing and simply submitting a RFE.

Even if you did donate to the crowdfunding, there's already ways to ask for game features to be changed. Calling the person who's sacrificed a lot of his own time to make the game in the first place 'lazy' or 'malicious', even if in a round-about way, isn't the way to go about doing that.


I guess you don't understand hyperbole.

You don't understand when someone has done you a pretty big favour, nor when you're acting like a spoiled child.


There are many things in this game that seem unfair or seem like the only point is to murder your character without any warning or chance to react

Gee, roguelikes are hard. Newsflash!!! :rolleyes:


but at least they fit thematically and usually make the game more interesting.

It fits thematically for you to personally kill the ogres in the cave, considering the dwarf elder asks you personally to do it (and not to just sic your GEE pet onto them all), and the quest is already plenty easy as it is. How would simply sitting back and drinking a Coke while your pet does all the work make this quest 'more interesting', I wonder?

[Arbot]

Assuming that a video game can't be lazy or malicious, one has to assume you were talking about Thomas, and as I said, that's way out of line.

Even if you did donate to the crowdfunding, there's already ways to ask for game features to be changed. Calling the person who's sacrificed a lot of his own time to make the game in the first place 'lazy' or 'malicious', even if in a round-about way, isn't the way to go about doing that.


There was no attack on Thomas perhaps I should have worded my original post differently but as I said it was hyperbole, I was simply expressing my displeasure that the "bug" is secretly a "feature"


Because you're acting like Thomas owes you something, rather than doing the civilised thing and simply submitting a RFE.

The reason i didn't submit this as a RFE is because I wanted to get feedback from others to see if we could get a better idea of what the issue was before submitting an RFE hopefully making it a little easier on Thomas than seeing an RFE that just says "pets are bugged." Turns out its a feature and now there is one less RFE bug report and potentially one more feature request instead.


You don't understand when someone has done you a pretty big favour, nor when you're acting like a spoiled child.

Ad Hominem


Gee, roguelikes are hard. Newsflash!!!

You're taking this out of context from the next line


It fits thematically for you to personally kill the ogres in the cave, considering the dwarf elder asks you personally to do it (and not to just sic your GEE pet onto them all), and the quest is already plenty easy as it is. How would simply sitting back and drinking a Coke while your pet does all the work make this quest 'more interesting', I wonder?

It seems as though you don't understand. There is no reason at all in game for your pets to be useless against these ogres I guess Thrundarr forgot to mention the force field that also prevents the dwarves from taking care of the ogres themselves and can only be pierced by the PC for no reason other than that you are the main character. Take the Banshee, sure you can be killed instantly but at least there are warnings in several different areas of the game as well as messages when you reach the level. Dorn Beasts as well, not only are there in game resources that can warn you of the danger but you are warned of their presence if there is one on the level. ADOM may have things that can surprise you and kill or cripple your character but it never does this things for no reason or without warning. I want the game to be hard but I want it to be fair, if I lose my cave bear that I spent a substantial time carefully leveling up I want it to be because I did something stupid not because of a "bug" implemented to fix another bug and called a "feature"

[BenMathiesen]

Back off, everyone, no need to overreact to a suboptimal choie of words.

I agree that it's odd that your pet is ineffective in the OC. I never noticed that before, and it probably is intended -- but only in the sense that it makes it easier for the game to keep track of a quest being completed.

However, the game is a little inconsistent on that score. I believe you still get the rewards if a pet kills Keethrax--the game just checks whether he is dead. But Kranach you have to kill yourself. I don't know whether Jharod and the sherrif can be killed by a pet. Maybe there is something different about how the game handles non-unique monsters?

Personally, I think any pet kill should count as your kill for the purposes of quests, and I think this is suitable grounds for an RFE.

[Dlightfull]

Back off, everyone, no need to overreact to a suboptimal choie of words.

I agree that it's odd that your pet is ineffective in the OC. I never noticed that before, and it probably is intended -- but only in the sense that it makes it easier for the game to keep track of a quest being completed.

However, the game is a little inconsistent on that score. I believe you still get the rewards if a pet kills Keethrax--the game just checks whether he is dead. But Kranach you have to kill yourself. I don't know whether Jharod and the sherrif can be killed by a pet. Maybe there is something different about how the game handles non-unique monsters?

Personally, I think any pet kill should count as your kill for the purposes of quests, and I think this is suitable grounds for an RFE.

One of the bards i tried found keethrax body in a mess of a level after playing lots of music without touching anything and completed the quest succesfully, another char of mine never found jharod, but after searching the VD he spoke to hotzenplotz and got rewarded for killing the healer, even though he was killed by some monster on the level.

[SirTheta]

Remember that all these other NPCs we are discussing are uniques. I'm sure the situation is vastly different for non-uniques (i.e. the ogres).

[BenMathiesen]

I was wondering that too, but isn't Kranach also a unique?

[_Ln_]

There are uniques and "uniques". For instance, another Kranach or cute dog can be wished for to fulfill the quest. Some wished for "unique" monster will, however, behave differently from their original (typically being hostile towards the PC).

By the way, http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=888