A Beginner's Guide to Pools

[Sad Death Generator]

There is a strong debate on the relative value of drinking from pools. In my mind, there are two times during the game that drinking from pools is worthwhile. The first is during early game when you are willing to endanger a weak character to make it playable. The second is mid-game, when you are able to counter most of the possible negative effects. An especially popular time for players going for an 'ultra ending', which requires an amulet of life saving fairly early, is reaching Khelvastar. He represents an impassable wall in descending the CoC until an amulet of life saving is obtained. Since drinking from pools sometimes provides wishes (about 1 wish from darkforge every other game average), players will sometimes travel to Darkforge where there is a room filled with roughly 5-10 pools for the specific purpose of obtaining the AoLS.

First, the things you need to drink semi-safely.
-semi tough character - you may summon poisonous snakes or water elementals. Getting into darkforge requires some wherewithal.
-curaria mancox - A herb that cures sickness. there are other sources of removing sickness, but they are rarer.
-teleport control - Eat a blink dog. Have a ring\amulet. Trust me.
-'very close' status with your god and an altar- the cursed and doomed intrinsics are dangerous and common to get from pools. If you are doomed, you cannot get a wish from pools. giving your god $1 will remove doomed and cursed status when you are 'very close'.
-knowledge. there is an adom wiki describing the messages from pools and their effects. A good way to sift through it is to use Ctrl f or F3. This brings up a text box that you can use to find text in the page. Meaning, for example, typing in 'you are moved by the sheer pleasure of this sip of fluid' will show that you've gained paralyze resist, the coolest of all resistances.
-a potion of youth - this would be nice, as you are sometimes aged by a pool (very dangerous for trolls and orcs). However, this is pretty rare, so its not really required.

The advantages - you can get wishes at a time when they save a lot of trouble (by wishing for amulet of life saving (for Khelevastar. even if not going for an ultra ending players like to save him; he gives several spellbooks, scrolls of chaos removal, and some other nice items), rings of ice for the Tower of Eternal Flames, or seven league boots to save on travel time), useful and lifesaving status effects available nowhere else (para, death, petrification, stun, sleep resist), a special quest for lady characters, and stat buffs. You can also get some nice resistances\intrinsics available elsewhere - teleport control, elemental resist, see invisible.

The disadvantages/stuff to be ambivalent about - the loss of intrinsic resistances, teleportitis (interferes with reading spellbooks, super annoying without teleport control, still useful to escape from monsters or travel through levels fast), intrinsic invisiblity (slower shield progression, cannot fight in the Arena, most monsters won't come to you, still nice for early and midgame survival), Dooming and cursing, stat loss.

Most of the negative effects can be reversed. Teleportitis is the most valid concern for prepared players: wizards especially can be frustrated by inability to read the tougher spellbooks like Wish with this intrinsic. I suggest drinking from pools after completing the arena quest, as Bart provides very nice skills to anyone giving him the golden gladius, the reward for the 20th arena fight.

In conclusion: drinnnnnk. you know you want to.

[JellySlayer]

I'd say it depends heavily on your situation.

Early game it is very high risk. There's a decent chance that vipers/snakes could probably kill you, or you get doomed or whatever. If you don't care about your characters all that much, I guess there's little harm in it, though it is, in my experience, usually a losing proposition by a fair margin to do this. But there's the odd chance you could get lucky. As an aside, on your list of "things you need to drink semi-safely", I'd be tempted to add a waterproof blanket, or at least remember to set aside your gear that can rust or get drenched. Particularly relevant at low levels.

Midgame, I'd say it depends a lot on what intrinsics you already have, and your race:

Losing teleport control is the obvious worst case scenario and most players are aware of this risk (though they may try to sip anyway).

Losing acid resist can be problematic at times. Most players probably don't bother to save an ant corpse from the PC, none of the usual items that give elemental resistance grant it (elem. gauntlets, RoTHK, etc.), and there are few other monsters in the game that give it (basically just ankhegs, unless you find another ant hill or get lucky with a giant slug). There are only a few items that give this resistance natively, and they either occupy fairly desirable slots (rings, gauntlets) or are pretty rare (BDSM). I've had characters who experimented with pools early in the game find themselves taking 500+ damage from ancient black dragons in the endgame. It's not a huge problem, but something to think about.

Losing intrinsic fire resistance can have implications for the Tower, though admittedly finding the right corpse is considerably easier here.

For short-lived races, pool sipping in midgame is somewhat high-risk due to aging. Potions of youth/longevity are really rare, so if you get a bad bout of aging, it's doubtful you'll have the resources to reverse it unless you've already been fairly lucky, or can alchemy some pots of longevity up.

Considering that only really desirable intrinsics that you can get from pools that can't easily be obtained elsewhere are Paralysis Resist and Invis, unless you are desperate for a wish, I think it's probably safer just to ignore pools entirely. Admittedly, both Para and Invis are very nice intrinsics, but I'm not going to gamble a good PC on getting them.

[kevintrimble]

Just a idea to improve your guide, which is great so far, but could you also mention the eye color fortune cookie pool message. Basically it mentions eye color being related to better luck with pools. Unfortunately it was never implemented. The fortune cookie message is still in the game though. Also maybe explaining the frog quest would be nice. Its one of a few easter eggs players have found and with corruption being affected by apperance now it actually affects pool sipping in mid late game. Trying not to be spoily but rewards for frog quest can be better then wish from a pool if you take into account odds of getting frog compared to wish. Honestly its the best optional quest for ultra players so long as your female and not a elf.

[shockeroo]

I usually stash a blink dog corpse and a spider corpse in an easily accessable shop (usually HMV and Dwarftown) and have an altar near the surface with Very Close+ relationship with my god before I start pool sipping. That way I can replenish Tele Control and Poison Res, and remove Dooming. It's super important to be able to remove Dooming, aside from the usual various horrible effects, as I believe you can't get a wish from pools once you're Doomed.

I also have arena to at least 19 wins, if not complete, so that if I become permenantly invisible, I can get the golden gladius with only 1 potion of visibility.

[Blasphemous]

Aside from wishes, paralyzation, death ray and petrification resistances are the best things from pools.
-para leaves the amulet slot to your disposition, to use ankh there or an amulet of the eye.
-deth opens up the armor slot since you don't need AMW anymore, that 5 PV can turn into 13 from an eternium plate mail or 10-12 from dragon scale mails
-petr also leaves the amulet slot free, you don't have to juggle amulets whenever nasty stuff is encountered.
Personally, as of pre23 I think invisibility is not as desirable anymore. Monsters are way too adept at finding the PC and shopkeepers will notice you almost instantly.
Everything else is obtainable. Acid immunity is almost guaranteed if you generated the druid dungeon instead of village dungeon.
Giant slugs spawn regularly at the bottom level.
Another useful intrinsic is the see invisible. Eventually you either get the mino axe or cat ring both of which grant it, but until then you have to rely on rings or amw.
AMW is the single item that makes ogre magi a non-threatening monster, but invis stalkers can be nasty.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

Just a idea to improve your guide, which is great so far, but could you also mention the eye color fortune cookie pool message. Basically it mentions eye color being related to better luck with pools. Unfortunately it was never implemented.
Sounds like a decent RFE.

[JellySlayer]

Aside from wishes, paralyzation, death ray and petrification resistances are the best things from pools.
-para leaves the amulet slot to your disposition, to use ankh there or an amulet of the eye.
-deth opens up the armor slot since you don't need AMW anymore, that 5 PV can turn into 13 from an eternium plate mail or 10-12 from dragon scale mails
-petr also leaves the amulet slot free, you don't have to juggle amulets whenever nasty stuff is encountered.
Personally, as of pre23 I think invisibility is not as desirable anymore. Monsters are way too adept at finding the PC and shopkeepers will notice you almost instantly.
Everything else is obtainable. Acid immunity is almost guaranteed if you generated the druid dungeon instead of village dungeon.
Giant slugs spawn regularly at the bottom level.
Another useful intrinsic is the see invisible. Eventually you either get the mino axe or cat ring both of which grant it, but until then you have to rely on rings or amw.
AMW is the single item that makes ogre magi a non-threatening monster, but invis stalkers can be nasty.

"Almost guaranteed"? I've been playing this game for 10+ years and have seen maybe... 3 giant slug corpses.

[shockeroo]

You could easily farm giant slugs in the bottom level of the DD. It's easier to go to PC: 2 and eat an ant though.

[GordonOverkill]

I've seen at least three giant slug corpses this very month. With food preservation 60 or higher chances are not that bad and with slaying ammo they are actually quite good.

Talking about pools, I have almost completely stopped drinking from them after a Vanquisher-wielding Orc Barbarian aged to death in darkforge. Maybe I'll change that when I seriously try to go for an ultra again, but for an ordinary ending it's just not worth the risk in my eyes.

[mewmew]

>slaying ammo

you mean hunting ammo? also anybody know if a bow of hunting and arrows of hunting stack?

about pools i always drink them dry in darkforge but i never played seriously anybody whose lifespan was less than 600 years either, and other stuff except aging is manageable

[JellySlayer]

You could easily farm giant slugs in the bottom level of the DD. It's easier to go to PC: 2 and eat an ant though.

I'm aware that you can find them. With hunting ammo, yeah, you can get the corpse easily enough (but such ammo is pretty rare, and the bow is quite high DL). The standard drop rate for slug corpses is about 2%, and their spawn rate, even in DD:7, is not so high. In casual play, the odds of getting one to drop are pretty low. Certainly not at the level of "almost guaranteed". Might as well say an AoLS is "almost guaranteed" because you can just wander around the ID for 100k turns until you find one.

[SirTheta]

I've seen 2 giant slug corpses in my time. They are nowhere near guaranteed (unless you think it's worth spending ages scumming them or have hunting ammo, which will give you a corpse very quickly), and you can't even get acid immunity from pools anyway, so I don't even understand that?

[YourMum]

Maybe 1 corpse in over 10 years. You're all right, there's guaranteed, and technically 'guaranteed' isn't there. Even with food preservation 100 and a weapon of hunting corpse drops aren't guaranteed. Not even 50/50. How many slugs do you see in a normal game as well?

[SirTheta]

Maybe 1 corpse in over 10 years. You're all right, there's guaranteed, and technically 'guaranteed' isn't there. Even with food preservation 100 and a weapon of hunting corpse drops aren't guaranteed. Not even 50/50. How many slugs do you see in a normal game as well?Weapon of hunting is really bad to be fair (only really has an effect on animals to start with, then it's small) - it's ammo of hunting that really works. So, if you go heir gift on an Archer, the corpse is practically guaranteed if you do DD - definitely. On every other character, good luck. Probably 2-5 in normal course of doing DD.

[Sad Death Generator]

they also show up in the mid to late game pretty often in tomb of high kings, blue dragon caves and shimmering cave. Usually everyone has hunting ammo by then.

[SirTheta]

they also show up in the mid to late game pretty often in tomb of high kings, blue dragon caves and shimmering cave. Usually everyone has hunting ammo by then.Okay, no and no. They do show up in the TOTHK or cavernous levels (to my great astonishment, I once found two on a cavernous level in TOTHK *and* got a corpse from one). They are, however, not "pretty often" - they occur about half as commonly as a berserker lord (and with +5 DL on top of that). Moreover, hunting ammo is very rare even if you're picking up *all* the ammo [because it is a suffixed arrow type instead of a separate arrow type]. The chance of you encountering both a giant slug and having hunting ammo is not even a once in 12 game occurrence (where a game, in this case, you get to TOEF) outside of DD & Archer heir gift.

[JellySlayer]

You can't even get acid immunity from pools anyway, so I don't even understand that?

I suggested earlier that losing acid resistance from pools can be a bit annoying because the resistance is pretty hard to find except from the ants in PC. Apparently everybody else just scums giant slugs for acid immunity at the start of the game.

Incidentally, there's a recent YASD (http://www.adom.de/forums/showthread.php/13349-Delayed-pool-sipping-death) about this exact problem.

[GordonOverkill]

The big problem with all these scumming tactics is that they are just no fun at all. However, just yesterday I finished a run with an orcish paladin who again killed two giant slugs, both randomly in the CoCs... no corpse though. Maybe I am just extremely lucky with finding these guys x-)

[divij]

i think the only reason to not do pool sipping anymore is if you have a VERY low age limit character like an orc or a troll, or if you have already obtained a wish and have -para, invis and teleportis. in any other circumstance , i dont think pool sipping can EVER be bad in the long run. also maybe its just me but i think that acid resistance/immunity is over-rated. though that maybe because i either play tough characters or spell casters, not something like a mist elven duelist or some shit!!
also , i DONOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME know what eye colour has got to do with pool sipping!!

[BenMathiesen]

Some corpses are very hard to find if you don't have the Food Preservation skill. This is one of them.

[magpie]

i think the only reason to not do pool sipping anymore is if you have a VERY low age limit character like an orc or a troll, or if you have already obtained a wish and have -para, invis and teleportis. in any other circumstance , i dont think pool sipping can EVER be bad in the long run. also maybe its just me but i think that acid resistance/immunity is over-rated. though that maybe because i either play tough characters or spell casters, not something like a mist elven duelist or some shit!!

I think pool-sipping is always a bad idea if you don't have something you REALLY need (AoLS for example, or RDSM ...), and if you don't have a good quick way to get your deity to remove cursed/doomed from you. I've lost too many good characters from getting greedy with pool-sipping, and the one thing that greatly increases my chances of getting to the end-game (or winning a game) is refraining from pool-sipping altogether.


also , i DONOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME know what eye colour has got to do with pool sipping!!

I can't say for sure, but I think that eye colour thing is a red herring - from my experience, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Maybe, just maybe, it reduces the chance to get the 'you feel cheated' (which is generated 90% or more of the time when you would have gotten a wish instead) message, but that'd be about it, I reckon. I think it's a lot like wild magic surges in D&D - you might get something good, or a lot of good things (and I've had good experiences with pool sipping, don't get me wrong), but it often ends up shafting you badly instead.

[grobblewobble]

the one thing that greatly increases my chances of getting to the end-game (or winning a game) is refraining from pool-sipping altogether.
Words of wisdom.

[Sad Death Generator]

There are distinct advantages to pool sipping.
Para and Death resistance can be more valuable than wishes to players going for ultra; the fact that there is a set of intrinsics only available through pools makes a good argument for using them until you obtain a desirable one.
When you don't have an AoLS by mid-game (usually, even for Treasure Hunters), it is the non-scummy way to improve your chances of getting it via wish, especially if you have already dug graves and searched the blue dragon caves. I suppose you could also use potions of exchange to try for them, but the odds are not good.(i thought I would mention here that wishing for rings of ice is wasteful. the Moon Sickle is a good way to obtain them, so long as you alter rings that can't be generated on the DL you use PoRC on)
That said, preparation AND moderation are key in pool sipping. When I doom or age my characters, I stop, at least until I've counteracted the effects. Astounding and extreme, I know, but it prevents my ever having died as a result of pool sipping when I'm prepared. I should mention that I run trolls, the most susceptible to aging. They don't die from one pool aging. They usually don't even get past 'grown up'. Many of the arguments against pool sipping seem to discount the ability to stop midway through your sipping session. It is an understood fact that you are gambling with the results of each sip. Suggesting that you continue indefinitely is akin to saying that when you go to a casino, you must play blackjack until you have no money or are rich.
Each drink is situational.
Before any drinking, when prepared, you stand to gain otherwise unobtainable or extremely convenient benefits. Conversely, you stand to have mid level inconveniences and ONE possible genuine problem that can't be solved (teleport). Only when you have taken at least one drink to the odds change; you may then be in danger of death through aging or of losing the unobtainable intrinsic you just got.

[JellySlayer]

There are distinct advantages to pool sipping.
Para and Death resistance can be more valuable than wishes to players going for ultra; the fact that there is a set of intrinsics only available through pools makes a good argument for using them until you obtain a desirable one.

Death resist is guaranteed through the AMW. There's no other armor that you need for an ultra. Para is important for ultras yes, but ultra is a very special case anyway... most PCs aren't ultra hopefuls--in fact, I usually consider going for ultras to be a mistake unless the RNG hands you what you need on a silver platter. Too many good characters are lost because people get this idea in their head that they have to go for an ultra.


When you don't have an AoLS by mid-game (usually, even for Treasure Hunters)

Then you can kill Khelly. AoLS is not worth a wish anymore for non-ultras since corruption is basically irrelevant in pre23.


That said, preparation AND moderation are key in pool sipping. When I doom or age my characters, I stop, at least until I've counteracted the effects.

Well, if you're going for a wish, you have to stop when you are doomed; doomed PCs cannot get wishes, ever. Here's the thing: If your character has survived well enough to be able to counter all of the effects of pool sipping, you're strong enough to win the game without needing to sip. Gambling a good character's life on the whims of the RNG is a bad investment, IMHO.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

I only sip in the early game (when I find a pool in my usual run to the UD) because I don't mind losing the character that early, or in the midgame for an AoLS, although the latter is probably no longer the best choice due to the corruption nerf mentioned by JellySlayer.

Sipping in any other situation is just not worth it IMHO. Well, maybe if you have a blink dog corpse stocked in DT, an altar nearby and you are an elf or dwarf. And even then, I'd be likely not to sip for fear of the tedium of periodic teleportitis prompts.

[mewmew]

-Para is important for everybody who don't want to die from a mimic hivemind or such at d:40+ right before winning. Drinking pools is definitely safer than that.

Also how was the corruption rate changed exactly?

[JellySlayer]

TB didn't specify exactly, but he said that the rates in various areas have gone down by 20-80% IIRC. Plus the number of corruptions you actually receive is lessened with high appearance. If you're just going for a regular win and don't spam the water orb too much, you can finish with something like 4 corruptions now.

Mimic hiveminds aren't particularly dangerous to high level PCs, para resist or no. Generally, any threat in the early game is always much, much more severe than in the endgame, and any reward you get in the endgame is much, much less important than in the early game. A ghul at level 4 is much more dangerous than a mimic hivemind at level 40.

[mewmew]

I'm thinking about a mimic hivemind vs lvl 20+ character...

[JellySlayer]

Well, you said "D40+ or right before winning". Either way, you won't see a hivemind before you reach the Casino (except in DH). By that point, you're pretty much invincible.

[SirTheta]

Once you are past the casino, paralyzing monsters are of no concern because you are nigh-guaranteed to have an amulet of free action. -Para from pools is a joke.

[mewmew]

But i want that amulet slot for something useful. Anyway I don't see any risk in sipping pools as a long living race/

[JellySlayer]

You can change your amulets easily enough.

I've lost far more characters to pool sipping mishaps than mimic hiveminds.

[SirTheta]

But i want that amulet slot for something useful. Anyway I don't see any risk in sipping pools as a long living race/Then you haven't poolsipped enough.

[mewmew]

Then you haven't poolsipped enough.

What exactly can happen? Snakes? Water elemental? Gaining teleportisis (in Darkforge) and losing teleport control on the next sip? Dooming? It all happened to me, it all is very manageable.

[grobblewobble]

Uncontrolled teleportitis is one of the worst problems you can have. If you do not have a spare blink dog (or a rare ring / amulet of teleport control), this is far worse than anything that you can gain from a pool is worth. Very annoying and it can easily kill you if it kicks in at the wrong moment.

Doom is ok if you have the piety to remove it. If not, the RNG has your number.

And losing acid resistance is dangerous too. A black wizard summoning acid vortices may be rare, but it happens. For someone without acid resistance that's an instakill. Or you might open a door and get breathed on by several black wyrms - RIP.

[divij]

i dont want to start anything here...god knows i've done that already multiple times :) but i COMPLETELY disagree with a lot of comments on this thread....except for 1... uncontrolled telepotis. that sucks and i have made a thread...search for it here...where it ALMOST wrecked my game to the extent that i was thinking of rage quitting. other that that and ageing there is nothing that can be said to change my mind about draining EVERY pool i find BEFORE ACW. there are too many things i can get and not a lot i can loose. Ofcourse this only applies to mid game characters.though realistically if u have managed to reach the darkforge pools u have no excuses about your character not being strong enough. i think pool sipping is to adom what alcohol is to real life...to much flak about dangers of it and NO SUBSTANCE......

[Sad Death Generator]

Well, I think we can all agree on one thing : pool sipping is wonderful and you should unquestionably do it

[asdf]

It is amazing indeed. Pools are wonderful source of wishes, -death and -para for the most characters. Some players, however, die from them for some reason. I dont know why.

[gut]

>Uncontrolled teleportitis is one of the worst problems you can have.

worst AND most entertaining

[JellySlayer]

What exactly can happen? Snakes? Water elemental? Gaining teleportisis (in Darkforge) and losing teleport control on the next sip? Dooming? It all happened to me, it all is very manageable.

It's all happened to me before. And yeah, most of the time it's manageable. But so what? By the time I can deal with those things, I can already win the game easily. Why give the RNG another chance when I'm already on the cusp of winning? A doomed PC can be 1 shotted by a ghul, carrion crawler, homunculus in the trip to your altar even with 200+ HP and 40+ PV (I've had it happen on... lots of occasions). If the nearest altar is on the far side of the Big Room, that's a pretty high-risk expedition for little gain.

Teleportitis in Darkforge is dangerous/annoying even with control anyway...

[The Cold Sailor]

You know, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it yet, but pools can also cause *severe* sickness. I've survived dooming, stat loss, intrinsic loss, even elementals, but I have lost at least a dozen characters to pool sickness. It dealt something like 30-40 damage, and I never got a turn to use herbs. That's an insta-kill for most characters less than level 6 (more, if you like mist elves). That's why I usually limit my poolsipping until I'm about ready for the Pyramid. I usually don't have intrinsics anyway, and I can usually run to Dwarftown by then.