Re-Roll same character after death - thoughts?

[boat]

What does everyone think about an RFE feature that, after death allows you to re-roll with the same race,class,gender, stats, and talents, and starsign?

The idea would be that if you die, you can get right back into a new game and keep going. The philosophy behind this is for me, I usually stick to the exact player config if I die prematurely.As well, for challenge missions it would be beneficial.

The characters age and background history would change if possible. I didn't want to put this straight into RFe because I feel they usually get bogged down with text at times. I also know that similar third party kits provide something similar, but id like to see it in the official game build.

What are some concerns, issues, thoughts?

[Sardaukar]

I'd like that.

Also sort of "Save as template" feature if you think you rolled character that you really like. So, even if dying, could restart with same character. Or play again if winning, to try different things.

[Blasphemous]

Some things are determined upon character creation, namely amount and location of smaller and greater vaults and all random artifacts that can be generated there, or via surges of power and D:49 gifts.
Playing a character for some time will inevitably unveil at least a portion of that artifact pool and determine whether or not to continue playing that char after death, building it with mentioned artifacts in mind.
This is essentially cheating or at least on par with save scumming.
On the other hand I don't know how the software realization of this would be done, but in either case I think it's too much effort for little actual gain.
It's a small convenience feature that doesn't really add much actual content.

[boat]

Some things are determined upon character creation, namely amount and location of smaller and greater vaults and all random artifacts that can be generated there, or via surges of power and D:49 gifts.
Playing a character for some time will inevitably unveil at least a portion of that artifact pool and determine whether or not to continue playing that char after death, building it with mentioned artifacts in mind.
This is essentially cheating or at least on par with save scumming.
On the other hand I don't know how the software realization of this would be done, but in either case I think it's too much effort for little actual gain.
It's a small convenience feature that doesn't really add much actual content.

I think I'm getting what you are saying. The idea is that it is still a brand new ancardia universe as soon as you enter your new player name in. Depending how everything is coded/generated may certainly be a deciding factor to implement or not

[anon123]

High stats and skills on a new character make a good motivator to play carefully and not end up dying. If you could simply recreate them as desired (even if the rest of the game is still randomized), that would be lost.

[Sardaukar]

High stats and skills on a new character make a good motivator to play carefully and not end up dying. If you could simply recreate them as desired (even if the rest of the game is still randomized), that would be lost.

On the other hand losing promising character to RNG early is rather demotivating. :D E.g. traps and critical hits...happened to too many characters that are fragile at start.

[JellySlayer]

Have to agree with anon here. This will just encourage people to do tonnes of rollscumming.

Maybe for ADOM Deluxe...

[boat]

Have to agree with anon here. This will just encourage people to do tonnes of rollscumming.

Maybe for ADOM Deluxe...

How much can a stat vary +/- ?

I can only speak for myself but I don't shift Q based on what my initial stats are. What if you only get the option to re roll from a character death and not shift q?

Just throwing out ideas :)

[Soirana]

Some things are determined upon character creation, namely ... all random artifacts that can be generated there, or via surges of power and D:49 gifts.

No they are not determined.

[JellySlayer]

How much can a stat vary +/- ?

I can only speak for myself but I don't shift Q based on what my initial stats are. What if you only get the option to re roll from a character death and not shift q?

Just throwing out ideas :)

I don't see what difference that would make. The problem is not that you can shift-Q; the problem is that you can roll a couple hundred characters until you get one with the perfect starsign/longlostbrother/ridiculous stats/extra talents, then play that character indefinitely.

Variance in stats can be pretty large. Probably at least 10 points from maximum to minimum expected value, per stat, is not unreasonable.

@Soirana, I think he means the list of possible artifacts that can be generated, not the specific artifacts that show up in those places.

[mimhoff]

In my view there are more important things than stats -- that lucky +3 PV you can get on your armour, or a good spellbook or ring in your inventory. But if you want to keep those, then that's really just like savescumming your start...

[Ravenshire]

No they are not determined.

I confirmed this today that your random artifacts are not set at character creation. i had a ME thief that i saved while in the frost giant caves and moved the save to my main computer from my laptop. when i played through on my main computer i got Cloak of Oman and a Giant vault when i got to lvl 5 of the caves. when i went back to my laptop to test this i got what looks like 2 weapons and an armor(cant confirm as its a fire vault and i cant clear it) but i know that the cloak of Oman is not in the vault cause when using item detection it shows up as a black [ and the armor was brown on the item detection

[Tyrnyx]

I confirmed this today that your random artifacts are not set at character creation.

Actually your story does not contradict the fact that random artifacts are set at the beginning. As I understand it the game generates a "pool" of random artifacts at the beginning of the game. Something like 15-20? Anyway, those ones - set at the beginning - but random when they show up are the only ones that can possibly be generated. I don't know where I saw this so don't take my word for it.

One way to test this would be to use that save you have and then kill yourself after generating that vault over and over and over again. Eventually you'll have the full list of artifacts that could appear in your game.

[SirTheta]

Tyrnyx is correct. All the randarts that can be generated in your game (about half iirc) are determined at character generation. What actually spawns when you playthrough is a complete different beast.

[_Ln_]

No they are not determined.

As far as I am aware (bits of info discussed on the IRC with ... ADOM researchers, if you catch my drift) there is a number of artifact sets specified in the game. One of the sets is chosen at character creation and acts as a pool for random artifacts. I'd swear I remember TB himself stating it somewhere (probably on the blog), but I can't find it. See this bug report (fixed before by ToGu's patch) - http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=129), which describes the more or less similar system existing in 1.1.1.

[Blasphemous]

Preliminary testing in pre23 suggests that only 6 precrowns are now possible, even for a level 50 character, so I can't even use my old method to determine if artifact pools still exist.
Even sacrificing billions of gold pieces doesn't push the character to extremely close anymore. Perhaps after crowning but I doubt that.
6 precrowns is still more than anybody could ever hope to achieve during a normal gameplay.
With that in mind, I think it's safe to assume that there is no way that anybody could exhaust their artifact pool.
Savescumming a character before generating a great vault reveals however that the same same artifacts are in circulation (multiple instances of silver key, perion, aylas and a couple other artifacts) for a given character, so the artifact pool does indeed exist and is determined upon char creation. Artifacts in greater vaults are randomly selected among those still available in the pool. Same is true for D:49 and mino maze.
It is possible that surges of power do not belong to the pool but due to their nature it's hard to definitively confirm this.
I have a strong suspicion that artifacts randomly dropping from monsters (typically in BDC) are selected from the entire pool of available artifacts, not the narrowed down pool fixed at char creation.
More testing ensues...

[anon123]

Preliminary testing in pre23 suggests that only 6 precrowns are now possible, even for a level 50 character, so I can't even use my old method to determine if artifact pools still exist.

A method I have used for this is creating a bunch of minotaur emperor figurines, 'U'sing them, then killing the emperor for his random artifact drop.