kinslayer or skullcrusher

[Dlightfull]

Hi guys,

So i rolled some DE Mindcrafters and after a little struggle, i got one running.

I was lucky enough to generate an altar in PC5 so i went for 2 precrowns - Skullcrusher and Kinslayer.

Which one should i use? Kinslayer has better damage and DV/PV, but is autocursing, while Skullcrusher has better to hit and a couple of, not terribly necessary, but nice to have intrinsics, but slightly less damage.

Edit: monsters just keep coming to my altar, should i go for a third precrown? i never tried that, but i guess it's very tedious, right?

[divij]

damn...i wish i had your luck with precrownings! i will go for skullcrusher...it has more damage cause of its strength bonus (which will help with encumbrance im sure), better to-hit, not autocursing, -conf, with the tradeoff being 7dv and 4pv......its an easy call in my books!

Edit: i dont think 3rd precrowning will be worth it...

[gym21]

Skullcrusher. Getting disarmed with Kinslayer as your main weapon is sooooo annoying.

[Blasphemous]

Kinslayer. Because... Skullcrusher sucks.

On a more serious note, Kinslayer offers better damage output and ratling disarmers aren't that common.
Skullcrusher's bonus to strength is not big enough to dramatically change damage so it's more of a carrying capacity aid.
Autocurse in Kinslayer is annoying of course but in the end there's the argument that nobody can hope to match:

It's more stylish.

Skullcrusher is just some overgrown troll's club but the black long sword... that's a blademaster's weapon.
Also as a mindcrafter you shouldn't be worried about disarmers since you have confusion blast.
They can still disarm you when confused but it happens much, much less frequently.

[Dlightfull]

Kinslayer. Because... Skullcrusher sucks.

On a more serious note, Kinslayer offers better damage output and ratling disarmers aren't that common.
Skullcrusher's bonus to strength is not big enough to dramatically change damage so it's more of a carrying capacity aid.
Autocurse in Kinslayer is annoying of course but in the end there's the argument that nobody can hope to match:

It's more stylish.

Skullcrusher is just some overgrown troll's club but the black long sword... that's a blademaster's weapon.
Also as a mindcrafter you shouldn't be worried about disarmers since you have confusion blast.
They can still disarm you when confused but it happens much, much less frequently.

Are you sure you're not some relative of mine?

We have a surprisingly similar way of thought :D

[littlebrather]

I suggest Kinslayer.
It's autocursing might be helpful to atonement that overwhelming power and appease RNG before it strikes back.

[grobblewobble]

Why choose when you can have both? Start dual wielding. :p

[Dlightfull]

Why choose when you can have both? Start dual wielding. :p

:D. what about the penalties to "to hit"? they're both pretty heavy and i don't even have the skill yet, to compensate.

No shield means even less DV, so undead, constructs and mindless creatures become a serious threat.

But i think it was a joke, right?

[grobblewobble]

Well, half a joke. It wouldn't be optimal, but at least it would be original.

If you get the dual wielding skill (didn't Bart teach that?), it actually works pretty well. Helps with to-hit, and more importantly, energy cost of attacking.

[divij]

well....skullcrusher has 12.5 damage + 4St vs kinslayer which has 15 damage, so i dont know why kinslayer has more damage. also, skullcrusher is a heavy weapon vs kkinslayer which isnt, so you can go the heavy weapon talent line...case closed :)

[Dlightfull]

Well, half a joke. It wouldn't be optimal, but at least it would be original.

If you get the dual wielding skill (didn't Bart teach that?), it actually works pretty well. Helps with to-hit, and more importantly, energy cost of attacking.

i didn't get to bart yet.

[Dlightfull]

well....skullcrusher has 12.5 damage + 4St vs kinslayer which has 15 damage, so i dont know why kinslayer has more damage. also, skullcrusher is a heavy weapon vs kkinslayer which isnt, so you can go the heavy weapon talent line...case closed :)

How much bonus to damage does a point of Str give? From all the info i have found in wiki and guidebook, Str only gives bonus to "to hit" and bonus damage for Two-handed Weapons.

[divij]

From adom wiki:

Purposes of strength:

Strength affects several of your character's values. The most prominent of these are:

Melee damage and to-hit: This makes Strength the most important stat for any melee fighter, and by extension anyone else who wants to use a melee weapon on a casual basis (as you may not want to waste all your spells and ammunition on mooks).

As for the exact amount, i dont know but for the purposes of the abv debate, 4 St should give you a mere 2.5 damage for my argument to hold! (which i think it does)

[auricbond]

I nominate Skincrusher...

[Dlightfull]

From adom wiki:

Purposes of strength:

Strength affects several of your character's values. The most prominent of these are:

Melee damage and to-hit: This makes Strength the most important stat for any melee fighter, and by extension anyone else who wants to use a melee weapon on a casual basis (as you may not want to waste all your spells and ammunition on mooks).

As for the exact amount, i dont know but for the purposes of the abv debate, 4 St should give you a mere 2.5 damage for my argument to hold! (which i think it does)

yeah, you're totally right from a pragmatic point of view, but Skullcrasher is so unstylish on a DE Mindcrafter. And besides, Kinslayer is a sword and some sword training could come handy when i will need the Wi bonus from the sword of Nonnak.

[Blasphemous]

well....skullcrusher has 12.5 damage + 4St vs kinslayer which has 15 damage, so i dont know why kinslayer has more damage. also, skullcrusher is a heavy weapon vs kkinslayer which isnt, so you can go the heavy weapon talent line...case closed :)

Heavy weapon talent line is useless, all talents put there are wasted but that's just my opinion.
I'd much rather invest into porter line, speed talents, TH and missiles for quick and lightning shots.
I virtually never take any weapon talents because the bonuses are just so ridiculously unnoticeable, even when all the related talents have been obtained.
You're looking at a maximum of +10 chance to hit at the point in the game when you already have to-hit around 100 or more.

[Dlightfull]

Heavy weapon talent line is useless, all talents put there are wasted but that's just my opinion.
I'd much rather invest into porter line, speed talents, TH and missiles for quick and lightning shots.
I virtually never take any weapon talents because the bonuses are just so ridiculously unnoticeable, even when all the related talents have been obtained.
You're looking at a maximum of +10 chance to hit at the point in the game when you already have to-hit around 100 or more.

well, the basher line is a bit better, since it gives bonuses to damage too and don't forget that all these little bonuses add up to percentages when suing Aggressive+ Tactics, so, fighting at Very Aggressive or Berserker, makes those few extra points of damage noticeable.

[divij]

well, i absolutely agree with you on the 1st 3/4 things you said...my 1st talents are almost always...alert, miser, TH, long stride (sometimes i take it b4 miser), porter, master packager, beast of burden, quick, very quick, greased lightning. but then i go for the melle weapon talents including aggressive and natural berserker (unless i have found a ranged artifact). And i think we can all agree that defensive talents are a complete and utter waste in the late game!!

[Dlightfull]

died to an ice vortex in PC5 on the way back from the altar to the stairs :(.

[Blasphemous]

Actually I usually take defensive talents in the late game.
Since so many monsters at that time ignore armor, DV is a better solution.
I'll try to get DV talents and dodger, then shield talents including shield master.
This results in around 10 extra DV that is independent of tactics. Quite useful.
I will take those DV talents over basher and any weapon talents any time.

[JellySlayer]

I take DV talents late game as well. Usually by level 20+ there isn't really much in the way of talents that's worth taking anyway, so I usually just grab the Porter talents and the DV talents as something useful to do until the end of the game. Early on, it's Speed/Long Stride, Missile Line, maybe PV line or maybe TH, depending on circumstances. There's a few other talents (6th sense) that are worth picking up too, I guess.

[Blasphemous]

One situational talent might be very useful - strong thrower.
When you play a raven character with the intention of obtaining the trident around level 16, that gives you range 4 with thrown spears at weapon proficiency level 1.
This is a huge difference that improves the trident's ability to slay things from a distance before they get close.
Around level 9 with thrown spears, this makes for a really nice and comfortable play.