How often you REALLY get an ultra-friendly PC going?

[pblack]

Whant I would like to do here is a small poll to know the ratio of ultra-promising chars vs. played/generated chars you guys get.

I mean, when you are striving for an ultra, you are going to play every char like it was in fact, ultra material. But althou ADOM can be quite surprising and generate a decisive artifact in a moment that you were ready to give the game up, therefore making an otherwise weak PC strong enough for an Ultra attempt, most of the time you really CAN'T rely on the RNG to give your PC a break.

So...

considering every important aspect. The 90 day limit vs. how fast you level up, the type of ultra attempted (UCG being considerably harder to complete due to the extra corruption, normal CG being perhabs even harder), the finding of 7LB (tied to the 90 day limit), the unicorn quests (8 PoGA are awfully tempting), getting a hold of an AoLS soon enough, getting a fragile race to herb farming, general inventory quality for decisive times and so on...

How often would you say that you REALLY have an ultra-promising char in your hands?

I, personally, gave up on "going for ultras" as a general rule because of the extremely boring scumming for AoLS since nowadays I only consider drinking from pools if my PC is mostly a blank slate. I don't mind losing a few resistances or gaining some corruption but gaining invisibility only to lose it in the next sip or losing TC when you are teleporting around gets too frustrating over time. So, unless I have a character that is mostly, a blank slate when in comes to instrinsics, I refuse to drinking from pools unless I'm very advanced in the game (lvl 30+) and have means of dealing with every possible side effect.

That being the case, I'll only really consider an ultra today if I find a RoDS or AoLS early on or if I have a REALLY promising PC. The kind that has 1 or 2 nonguaranteed, slaying artifacts, some 30+ stats and some nice secondary gear by level 20 or so. Normally I ended up doing the ToEF by lvl 20 befor the water temple because I hadn 't found an AoLS. I get tired of that. I also like the feeling of finding RoDS or AoLS when you least expect it. Makes you feel like you really HAVE to go for an ultra.

So, that being the decisive factor, I would say that my rate of ultra attempting PC's is something like 1/20. I could go even lower than that, to something like 1/30, if I consider the other factors I mentioned before. Sometimes it doesn't matter if you found an AoLS in D: 14 on your first visit. If you had bad stat rolls, no herbs, no early found 7LB or something like that, I wouldn't say it's in fact, ultra-material. Thou I would probably attempt it because finding an AoLS like that is incredibly lucky.

I don't even have to say that to attempt a normal CG with a pure chaotic (C- to CN throughout the WHOLE game) it gets even harder. You don't have to save Khelly (thou would be nice for the SoCR). But revoking the benefits of the white unicorn (and possibly gaining corruptions from the black unicorn if you choose to kill the white one) while retrieving the screptre in ID: 66 and having a deficit of 4 SoCR because you weren't N when talking to the old man in the 2x2 room in DT isn't easy. Of couse, that's more of a personal challenge so i think it doesn't count (thou i feel like for once, doing all the Chaotic quests in a game)

So, how about you. What's your criteria for ultra attempts and what's your ultra to non-ultra ratio?

[quik]

I'm playing my second ultra attempt and I have a 100% of success in obtaining the AoLS.

In fact, I also saved Kellly in 2 out of my 3 normal wins, so I suppose this is because I tend to pickpocket every humanoid I see and this may raise the odds to get an AoLS or a RoDS.

Ah, and I never have had to do pool-sipping to scum for a wish.

[Al-Khwarizmi]

If you don't want to scum, remember that TH almost doubles the probability of getting an AoLS or a RoDS from a monster drop.

I'm not really going for an ultra yet, but most of my chars tend to find and AoLS because I usually sip all pools I find during the early game. Of course, many of my chars die for this same reason (yesterday night I lost one to a water elemental generated from a pool at UD:6...)

[Xevoc]

Corruption is never an issue unless you're wasting time. If it is an issue, visit the library for some guaranteed scrolls.

Finding a wish or AoLS before Khelavaster could be an issue. 50-75% of times you'll find it if you do ToEF and TotHK (maybe rift, too) before killing Khelavaster, though.

Other ingredients of the ultra ending are really easy, unless your first kill is a rat (or similar) or you're playing a troll (achieving level 45 is painful).

[Xevoc]

Besides, the black unicorn doesn't always give you 8 PoGA's. I think it's 3d3 PoGA's. So if you're unlucky (like me), you'll end up getting 4 PoGA's and poison hands. I didn't even drink those potions, because I accidently turned them into poison. :)

I really suggest the white unicorn quest if you prefer to play the game slowly (90 day limit and corruption are an issue).

[JellySlayer]

I usually leave my characters the ability to play for an ultra if I want to... that is, my first kill is usually something I can control, but not something that makes courage annoying or impossible to get (I like bandits or outlaws best). 7lb aren't normally a factor for considering whether I'm going for an ultra, although it may affect the type of ultra: ULEs I can do without any trouble even if I hit day 90 before the ToEF--my recent ULEs have finished with ~10 SoCR in their backpacks and well over day 90... If I find early 7lbs, I might play for an UNE since corruption is more of an issue there (I have, I must admit, never successfully completed an OCG or UCG... I don't enjoy spending time chaotic because I hate chaotic altars).

That said, I think a good number of my winners are ultras--more than half, almost certainly. It takes maybe one or two hours longer to complete an ultra rather than a regular ending, and it is more satsifying in my books--same reason I normally clear all of D:50 rather than a wand of destruction ending. It's very rare that I'd ever say I'd have a character that I feel is strong enough to win, but not strong enough for an ultra, because the difficulty between the two is only nominally different.

I almost never scum for an AoLS though. I hold off doing Khelly as long as I can, but that's as close to scumming as I'll come--that is, I usually do the Tower, the HoTHK, and Darkforge before the Water Temple. If I pool sip at all, I usually stop if I get invisibility and death ray resist, not when I get a wish. I always do the white unicorn quest since I usually clear D:50. If I need extra corruptions to get my ultra, I can always just w5 a couple times on D:50.

[CheatMan]

Heh, i go about it in a different manner: If a char no longer has the ability to do an ultra, it's shift-q immediately.

If i kill a cat, Shift-Q. If i Accidentally get crowned instead of pre-crown before i obtain TotRR, Shift-q. If my first kill is anything else but a hobgoblin or Giant Frog, you know it.... Shift-q.

I shift-q a LOT.

[Andy Williams]

Heh, i go about it in a different manner: If a char no longer has the ability to do an ultra, it's shift-q immediately.

If i kill a cat, Shift-Q. If i Accidentally get crowned instead of pre-crown before i obtain TotRR, Shift-q. If my first kill is anything else but a hobgoblin or Giant Frog, you know it.... Shift-q.

I shift-q a LOT.

My attitude is very similar. Giant frog is always my first kill. Why hobgoblin?

[pblack]

Heh, i go about it in a different manner: If a char no longer has the ability to do an ultra, it's shift-q immediately.

If i kill a cat, Shift-Q. If i Accidentally get crowned instead of pre-crown before i obtain TotRR, Shift-q. If my first kill is anything else but a hobgoblin or Giant Frog, you know it.... Shift-q.

I shift-q a LOT.

That's REALLY a lot. The cat issue is just annoying for me. With means of see invisible, 7LB and some paralyzation/webbing/teleporting+magicmapping I usually don't care much for cats after I accidentally kill the first.

Also, I found that If muggers aren't generated on the bandit village, Killing farmers (luring one out to VD) causes a smaller drop in alignment than killing beggars. And The chances of a neutral or lawful altar being generated in PC or VD are pretty big, so the initial drop might not be that big of a deal since with $100 you normally can go from C to NC or even LN with any PC. This, of course, makes courage much harder to obtain.


Corruption is never an issue unless you're wasting time. If it is an issue, visit the library for some guaranteed scrolls.

Finding a wish or AoLS before Khelavaster could be an issue. 50-75% of times you'll find it if you do ToEF and TotHK (maybe rift, too) before killing Khelavaster, though.

Other ingredients of the ultra ending are really easy, unless your first kill is a rat (or similar) or you're playing a troll (achieving level 45 is painful).

Yeah, I'm not much of a speed player. I give you that. The only part of the game that I really try to save time is the wilderness. Normally doing ToTHK -> Gremlin Cave -> Darkforge -> Griffyard -> UD (if I didn't descend before) all in one take. If I feel strong enough I can squeeze in the ToEF. But that's it. Otherwise I go up and down a lot in the CoC.

[warheart]

I prefer bandits and outlaws, like Jellyslayer. Those aren't that common, and you can find them pretty easily in the wilderness. So as soon as you kill filk, you can get courage.

[Xevoc]

I prefer bandits and outlaws, like Jellyslayer. Those aren't that common, and you can find them pretty easily in the wilderness. So as soon as you kill filk, you can get courage.

Or even before killing Filk, you can get courage. Descending to I22-25 isn't that bad. Although, I could live without courage - the only real uses for that skill seem to be the earth temple and the chaos plane.

[CheatMan]

My attitude is very similar. Giant frog is always my first kill. Why hobgoblin?

Because Hobgoblin mobs can be encountered in the wilderness before lvl 15. makes getting courage at lvl 12 or so feasable. Just like Gt Frogs. Although hobgoblin tensions rooms are rather common... hmm. Maybe you're right i should just Shift-q if the 1st kill is anything else than a Giant Frog.

[JellySlayer]

Heh, i go about it in a different manner: If a char no longer has the ability to do an ultra, it's shift-q immediately.

If i kill a cat, Shift-Q. If i Accidentally get crowned instead of pre-crown before i obtain TotRR, Shift-q. If my first kill is anything else but a hobgoblin or Giant Frog, you know it.... Shift-q.

I shift-q a LOT.

That just seems... bizarre. How many ultras have you finished doing this?

[CheatMan]

That just seems... bizarre. How many ultras have you finished doing this?

None. It's a smooth ultra or nothing for me.

lol

[Conundrum]

Wasn't it you who has to successfully complete the Kranach and Puppy quests too? :|

[Lich]

I recently started a serious OCG attempt, and I just killed Keriax for very the first time today. My first corruption is poison hands, and thick gauntlets are nowhere to be found (not even in the casino). My next stop is the library, but I still think corruption is going to be very problematic.
I guess what keeps me away from ultras most of the time is the requirement to get rare item X and rarer item Y. But I think I have a shot this time, and an OCG should be the least scum-intensive.

[Sadface]

Ultra-promising? Hmm. I'd have to say, once in a brightly shimmering
blood moon covered in sprinkles and ice cream made from pixie dust.

I pickpocket, I use TH, I do almost everything in my power (except
pool sipping - I try to save this as a last resort) to get an AoLS, but
I am not so lucky to do so more than once in every, I'd say 100
characters. The first character I found the AoLS by pickpocketing
the chaos servants around Khely. Convenient, no? The second
got a wish from a pool. The first died before the water temple, though.

Ultra-powerful? From my thief attempt, I'd say every victory I've
had so far is powerful enough to complete an ultra, especially
the wizard (he dove to ID:76 to find filk, grabbed the scepter
on the way too).

[Sami]

Around 20-25% of my wins are ultras (including one fling the bling and one illiterate PC). Most of the normal wins aren't ultras either because I got too early crowning , didn't find AoLS early enough or I was doing some challenge game which makes ultra impossible or nearly impossible.

Often using pickpockets, drinking pools (doing this only if I have source of teleport control) or digging great treasures out from graves gives at least one wish before you have to pass Khelly.

[CheatMan]

Wasn't it you who has to successfully complete the Kranach and Puppy quests too? :|

Yeah, it was me who'd said that. However, I've since learned that the puppy can be wished for and the replacement-canine will satisfy the little girl. So now i don't try to get to the puppy alive anymore, but if i didn't satisfy the little girl by the time i'd have to go kill andor.... shift-q.

[Xevoc]

Do you also shift+Q if Kranach doesn't drop a corpse (so you don't get a message in your .flg)?

[JellySlayer]

Yeah, it was me who'd said that. However, I've since learned that the puppy can be wished for and the replacement-canine will satisfy the little girl. So now i don't try to get to the puppy alive anymore, but if i didn't satisfy the little girl by the time i'd have to go kill andor.... shift-q.

Wait... if you had a character, sitting at level 50, TotRR in hand, who all they needed to do to win was descend to D:50 and kill Andor Drakon, you would shift-q the character if you didn't have a wish to revive the cute puppy?

I can't imagine how frustrating you must find this game.

[warheart]

You don't need Kranach to leave a corpse :S

[Al-Khwarizmi]

So you suicide, leaving the whole world to the mercy of the forces of Chaos just because you don't want to see a tiny girl crying.

You know that she is going to die a horrible death, slaughtered by Chaos creatures, right?

[CheatMan]

So you suicide, leaving the whole world to the mercy of the forces of Chaos just because you don't want to see a tiny girl crying.

You know that she is going to die a horrible death, slaughtered by Chaos creatures, right?

A lifetime of sadness is worse than a quick death while hoping. Besides, she gets re-united with her puppy quicker that way. Little girls should be happy.

[CheatMan]

Wait... if you had a character, sitting at level 50, TotRR in hand, who all they needed to do to win was descend to D:50 and kill Andor Drakon, you would shift-q the character if you didn't have a wish to revive the cute puppy?

I can't imagine how frustrating you must find this game.

Not really, because I get most of my enjoyment trying to see if i can make it to the casino. Plus, I know that I'd have a whole bunch of victories if I wasn't so anal-retentive about it so it's not that frustrating.

[Xevoc]

You don't need Kranach to leave a corpse :S

I've never gotten the "He brought infamous raider lord to justice." (or whatever) to my .flg when Kranach doesn't drop a corpse. How do you get that achievement, because just killing the raiders and getting $3000 from sheriff doesn't seem to be enough?

[warheart]

I've never gotten the "He brought infamous raider lord to justice." (or whatever) to my .flg when Kranach doesn't drop a corpse. How do you get that achievement, because just killing the raiders and getting $3000 from sheriff doesn't seem to be enough?

Oh, sorry. Don't know why, my mind decided to ignore the second part of your post, thought you were talking about completing quest :P

[CheatMan]

Do you also shift+Q if Kranach doesn't drop a corpse (so you don't get a message in your .flg)?


I've never gotten the "He brought infamous raider lord to justice." (or whatever) to my .flg when Kranach doesn't drop a corpse. How do you get that achievement, because just killing the raiders and getting $3000 from sheriff doesn't seem to be enough?


Oh, sorry. Don't know why, my mind decided to ignore the second part of your post, thought you were talking about completing quest :P

Missing the quest for the 3k reward, that's shift-q worthy.
Getting the .flg statement for bringing back corpse, could care less about this. I know that raider lord is dead, doesn't matter if the rest of the world knows it.

But i've got to bring happiness back to that little girl. If I can't... Shift-q.

[pblack]

My drunken poem to CheatMan:

Shift+q man, Shift+q man
Pressing Shift+q when he can
The tiny girl gotta be happy,
he won't settle for less
But if anything goes wrong
He'll Shift+q your ass

[JellySlayer]

I hope you at least do a bit of scumming for wishes on your level 50s who haven't saved the cute dog...

[CheatMan]

I hope you at least do a bit of scumming for wishes on your level 50s who haven't saved the cute dog...

In that situation, i'd scum for wishes till i ran out of SoCRs and PoCCs and getting turned into a WMoPC is a guarantee. Then it's shift-q time.

[CheatMan]

My drunken poem to CheatMan:

Shift+q man, Shift+q man
Pressing Shift+q when he can
The tiny girl gotta be happy,
he won't settle for less
But if anything goes wrong
He'll Shift+q your ass

:D:D:D:D

This is funny

[DumbleDoor]

Around 20-25% of my wins are ultras (including one fling the bling and one illiterate PC). Most of the normal wins aren't ultras either because I got too early crowning , didn't find AoLS early enough or I was doing some challenge game which makes ultra impossible or nearly impossible.

Often using pickpockets, drinking pools (doing this only if I have source of teleport control) or digging great treasures out from graves gives at least one wish before you have to pass Khelly.
You've one 50 games of ADOM... Or has it changed in the last week?