Help on D50 pls!

[Gordy]

OK. How the flap do you win this game?
I’ve got a lvl 50 priest (because I like knowing what’s cursed). +50 power or more on elemental spells. A huge list of spells. Arrayed with artifacts and (I think) reasonable stats. Been hitting the herbs and throwing money at the trainer. Cleaned out the casino and other shops. Robbed the water dragon (not that there was much there). Taken down the dark forge. Plenty of resistances. But I cannot keep the darned gates shut. This would be my first victory, if I can get away with it. I just cant do enough damage against the Balors before they corrupt me to death. I made my own scrolls of corruption removal so I’m going into it with only about 8 corruptions. Hanging around on d:50 and d:49 is corrupting like crazy. I have ~100/60 armor and 600 hp, I’m still getting whittled down and corrupted, even if I make trips up to heal and restore PP. I cannot zap wands on account of Mana Battery. Help?

[JellySlayer]

It would help to post your gear, but...

Balors are vulnerable to humanoid and daemonoid slaying weapons and ammo. If you have slaying missiles (preferred) or weapon (rune-covered trident works well), you should be able to kill the balors with minimal difficulty. If you have controlled teleport (you should), then go to both levers, close them to block corruption, then move away until the balor reopens the gate. Kill him, close gate again, and repeat.

If you have rain of sorrows, that will make short work of the balors as well. If you're desperate, you could try a scroll of familiar summoning if you have one. Use prayers to restore PP if you get low (you hopefully have lots of piety). Or just cast from HP--it's not like stat drains matter at this point. Don't w5 to restore HP/PP. Use potions or prayers. If you absolutely have no other way, HPcast healing spells.

[Gordy]

Ok I will post my gear when I am back at my pc.
I have crown of regen, eternium plate +13, thick gloves (on account poison hands), 7LBs, Bran Cloak, ring of high kings, girdle of carrying, serpents bite and protector, cant remember what amulet but nothing special. Bracers of toughness +7. I have two blessed scrolls of power and enough prayers for two or three heals. I can only manage to take down two or three balors at the most before they destroy me. I have been using minor punishment and heavenly fury but is there something better I could use? I have some arrows and quarrels of demon slaying but it doesn’t seem to do any better. Forgot, slaying ring +9. No acid spells.

[Gordy]

Don't know how to spoiler this sorry


Heir St:19 Le:44 Wi:14 Dx:25 To:17 Ch:16 Ap: 1 Ma:19 Pe:11 L+

DV/PV:113/36 H:404(404) P:3(384) Exp: 50/24601831 D: 49 Sp: 117

Blessed Invisible Bloated Coward



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Background Information

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Name: Heir Race: female Gnome Class: Priest

Eye color: light blue Hair color: brown Complexion: ruddy

Height: 3'1" Weight: 9 pounds Scars: 10

Age: 261 (grown-up, 156 years of unnatural aging added in)

Star sign: Wand Birthday: 25/Wand (day 85 of the year)



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Inventory

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total weight: 10107 stones Carrying capacity: 21100 stones



Head : blessed crown of regeneration [+0, +0] [55s]

Neck : blessed necklace of rapid healing [2s]

Body : blessed eternium plate mail (-1, -2) [-1, +13] [240s]

Girdle : uncursed adamantium girdle [+0, +6] [18s]

Cloak : blessed Brannalbin's Cloak of Defense [+3, +3] [30s]

Right Hand : blessed emerald dagger "Serpent's Bite" (+3, 3d4+3) [+3, +1]

Left Hand : blessed medium obsidian shield "Protector" [+20, +4] {To+2}

Right Ring : uncursed ring of slaying (+9 melee damage, +6 missile damage)

Left Ring : blessed ring of the High Kings [+2, +3] [1s]

Bracers : blessed bracers of toughness [+0, +0] {To+7} [10s]

Gauntlets : uncursed thick gauntlets (-1, -2) [+3, +4] [15s]

Boots : blessed seven league boots [+1, +0] [30s]

Missile Weapon: uncursed long bow of hunting (+9, +4) [30s]

Missiles : bundle of 8 uncursed arrows of demon slaying (+3, 1d6+3)

Tool : uncursed pick axe of thunder (+4, 1d6+1) [75s]





----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stuff

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Total weight: 9525 stones Carrying capacity: 21100 stones



Helmets ('[')

uncursed crown of ice [+0, +3] [65s]

uncursed helm of leadership [+1, +2] {Ch+6} [100s]

Armor ('[')

blessed ancient mummy wrapping [+1, +5] {Ap-8} [60s]

uncursed eternium plate mail (-1, -2) [-1, +13] [240s]

Shields ('[')

uncursed tower adamantium shield (-2) [+12, +3] [108s]

Gauntlets ('[')

uncursed elemental gauntlets (-1, +0) [+0, +3] [10s]

uncursed thick gauntlets (-1, -2) [+1, +2] [15s]

uncursed thick gauntlets (-1, -2) [+0, -1] [15s]

Cloaks ('[')

uncursed cloak of protection [+0, +3] [20s]

Boots ('[')

uncursed eternium boots (+1, +1) [+0, +5] [55s]

Necklaces (''')

blessed ankh {lucky} [3s]

uncursed amulet of death ray resistance [7s]

blessed amulet of order [3s]

blessed Aylas Holy Scarf [+10, +10] {Ch+6} [5s]

uncursed amulet of free action [3s]

blessed amulet of protection +2 [3s]

uncursed amulet of chaos [3s]

uncursed amulet of protection +3 [3s]

uncursed copper amulet [3s]

Bracers (',')

uncursed bracers of regeneration [+0, +0] [18s]

uncursed bracers of speed [+2, +0] (+4 spd) [10s]

uncursed bracers of protection [+0, +2] [10s]

One-handed weapons ('(')

uncursed black rune-covered dagger "Sting" (+8, 3d4) [+4, +1] [10s]

uncursed eternium warhammer (+0, 4d3+8) [29s]

blessed sword of sharpness (+2, 4d8+4) [35s]

uncursed short sword of devastation (+1, 5d6+6) [30s]

uncursed mace of destruction (+7, 5d6+6) [120s]

uncursed murderous eternium long sword (+0, 2d8+9) [20s]

uncursed eternium long sword (+3, 2d8+8) [20s]

uncursed eternium warhammer of thunder (+0, 4d3+8) [29s]

uncursed sword of sharpness (+3, 4d8+8) [35s]

uncursed black rune-covered dagger "Needle" (+8, 3d4) [+4, +1] [10s]

Two-handed weapons ('(')

uncursed scythe of corruption "Moon Sickle" (+6, 10d4+6) [+2, +2] [70s]

Missile weapons ('}')

uncursed light crossbow of accuracy (+9, +1) [70s]

Missiles ('/')

bundle of 3 uncursed adamantium quarrels (+1, 2d6+6) [3s]

bundle of 7 uncursed arrows of jelly slaying (+3, 2d4+4) [14s]

uncursed quarrel of humanoid slaying (+3, 2d6+3) (p) [4s]

uncursed quarrel of humanoid slaying (+3, 2d6+3) (p) [4s]

uncursed quarrel of humanoid slaying (+3, 2d6+3) [4s]

bundle of 4 uncursed quarrels of undead slaying (+3, 2d6+3) [16s]

bundle of 2 uncursed adamantium arrows (+1, 1d6+6) [2s]

bundle of 9 uncursed arrows of construct slaying (+3, 1d6+3) [18s]

blessed arrow of targeting (+6, 1d6) (p) [2s]

bundle of 7 blessed arrows of targeting (+6, 1d6) (p) [14s]

bundle of 4 blessed eternium arrows (+0, 2d6+10) [4s]

bundle of 9 uncursed quarrels (+3, 2d6) [18s]

bundle of 5 uncursed quarrels of jelly slaying (+3, 2d6+3) [20s]

bundle of 5 uncursed eternium arrows (+4, 2d6+8) [5s]

bundle of 13 uncursed arrows of giant slaying (+3, 1d10+3) [26s]

bundle of 3 uncursed arrows of jelly slaying (+3, 2d4+3) [6s]

bundle of 7 uncursed quarrels of construct slaying (+3, 2d6+3) [28s]

bundle of 5 uncursed arrows of undead slaying (+3, 2d4+3) [10s]

bundle of 11 uncursed quarrels [22s]

bundle of 12 uncursed quarrels [24s]

Tools (']')

heap of 3 uncursed waterproof blankets [30s]

heap of 2 uncursed fireproof blankets [20s]

heap of 2 uncursed tiny keys [2s]

heap of 3 uncursed square keys [3s]

heap of 2 uncursed hexagonal keys [2s]

heap of 2 uncursed triangular keys [2s]

uncursed holy symbol [5s]

uncursed round key [1s]

Instruments ('{')

uncursed mandoline [23s]

Rings ('=')

blessed ring of fire [1s]

heap of 3 uncursed rings of slaying (+6 melee damage, +6 missile damage)

uncursed ring of see invisible [1s]

blessed ring of luck [1s]

uncursed ring of minor elemental mastery [+0, +0] [1s]

uncursed ring of speed [+0, +1] (+5 spd) [1s]

uncursed ring of invisibility [1s]

uncursed ring of mental stability [-3, +1] {Le+1} [1s]

heap of 2 uncursed rings of the clear mind [2s]

uncursed ring of acid resistance [1s]

uncursed ring of stun resistance [1s]

Wands ('\')

uncursed wand of cold (0 charges) [4s]

uncursed wand of acid (0 charges) [4s]

uncursed wand of poison (0 charges) [3s]

uncursed wand of lightning [4s]

uncursed wand of door creation [3s]

Potions ('!')

blessed potion of healing [4s]

heap of 4 uncursed potions of poison [16s]

blessed potion of raw mana [2s]

heap of 8 uncursed potions of healing [32s]

uncursed potion of invisibility [4s]

uncursed potion of insight [2s]

potion of holy water [4s]

heap of 2 uncursed potions of water [8s]

blessed potion of boost charisma [2s]

blessed potion of raw chaos [2s]

Scrolls ('?')

uncursed scroll of item destruction [2s]

blessed scroll of power [2s]

heap of 12 uncursed blank scrolls [24s]

heap of 2 uncursed scrolls of item detection [4s]

heap of 2 uncursed scrolls of light [4s]

heap of 3 uncursed scrolls of great identify [6s]

heap of 6 uncursed scrolls of uncursing [12s]

uncursed scroll of gold detection [2s]

blessed scroll of luck [2s]

uncursed scroll of amnesia [2s]

heap of 4 blessed scrolls of identify [8s]

uncursed scroll of monster detection {fasdc} [2s]

uncursed scroll of magic mapping [2s]

blessed scroll of balance [2s]

uncursed scroll of luck [2s]

uncursed scroll of identify [2s]

blessed scroll of satiation [2s]

uncursed scroll of charging [2s]

Books ('"')

uncursed spellbook of Light [100s]

uncursed spellbook of Hellish Flames [100s]

uncursed spellbook of Darkness [100s]

uncursed spellbook of Cure Serious Wounds [100s]

uncursed spellbook of Baptism of Fire [100s]

Food ('%')

heap of 3 uncursed lumps of beeswax [15s]

heap of 47 uncursed stomafillia herbs [94s]

heap of 26 uncursed spenseweeds [52s]

heap of 4 uncursed curaria mancox herbs [8s]

heap of 9 blessed spenseweeds [18s]

heap of 3 blessed curaria mancox herbs [6s]

blessed alraunia antidote [2s]

heap of 3 uncursed alraunia antidotes [6s]

uncursed fortune cookie [3s]

heap of 2 uncursed lumps of gelee royal [6s]

heap of 2 uncursed bits of plain candy [4s]

heap of 2 uncursed hurthling cakes [60s]

blessed iron ration [100s]

heap of 20 uncursed large rations [4000s]

uncursed bit of gnomish candy [2s]

heap of 6 uncursed dwarven sausages [120s]

heap of 2 blessed large rations [400s]

heap of 3 uncursed loaves of bread [120s]

heap of 16 uncursed iron rations [1600s]

blessed bit of plain candy [2s]

cursed large ration [200s]

Valuables ('$')

44545 gold pieces [445s]

Gems ('*')

uncursed topaz [1s]

uncursed crystal of light [1s]

uncursed sapphire [1s]





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Weapon Skills

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Melee weapon Lvl Hit Dam DV Level Required marks

--------------------- --- --- --- -- ------------- --------------

Unarmed fighting 6 +3 +2 +2 skilled 337

Daggers & knives 9 +9 +5 +2 excellent 1487

Clubs & hammers 7 +5 +3 +2 skilled 406

Maces & flails 6 +4 +2 +1 skilled 375

Swords 10 +9 +6 +3 excellent 2234

Axes 4 +3 +2 +0 skilled 124

Whips 1 +1 +0 +1 basic 37

Pole arms 5 +5 +2 +4 skilled 251

Twohanded weapons 1 +1 +1 +0 basic 29

Staves 1 +1 +0 +1 basic 37



Missile weapon Lvl Hit Dam Ra Level Required marks

--------------------- --- --- --- -- ------------- --------------

Slings 2 +4 +3 +0 basic 13

Bows 4 +8 +6 +1 skilled 43

Crossbows 6 +12 +9 +2 skilled 73

Thrown axes & hammers 2 +4 +3 +0 basic 26

Thrown daggers 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 10

Thrown rocks & clubs 1 +2 +1 +0 basic 16

Thrown spears 0 +0 +0 +0 unskilled 9

Boomerangs & scurgari 2 +4 +3 +0 basic 13



Shields Lvl DV Level Required marks

--------------------- --- --- ------------- --------------

Shields 12 +24 Mastery 3634





Damage caused with your melee weapons:

--------------------------------------

Right hand: +52 bonus to hit, 3d4+17 damage





Damage caused with your missile weapons:

----------------------------------------

Ammunition: 8, base range: 9, +47 bonus to hit, 1d6+23 damage









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Skills

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Alchemy ................... 27 (mediocre) [+4d4]

Backstabbing ..............100 (superb) [+1d5]

Bridge building ........... 21 (mediocre) [+3d5] (mr)

Climbing ..................100 (superb) [+1d3]

Concentration .............100 (superb) [+2d4]

Courage ...................100 (superb) [+1d3]

Detect item status ........100 (superb) [+2d4]

Detect traps ..............100 (superb) [+1d3]

Disarm traps ..............100 (superb) [+1d3]

First aid .................100 (superb) [+2d4]

Gemology ..................100 (superb) [+1]

Haggling ..................100 (superb) [+2d4]

Healing ...................100 (superb) [+2d4]

Herbalism .................100 (superb) [+2d4]

Listening .................100 (superb) [+1d5]

Literacy ..................100 (superb) [+2d4]

Mining ....................100 (superb) [+1]

Music .....................100 (superb) [+1d5]

Pick locks ................ 69 (good) [+1d3]

Pick pockets .............. 99 (superb) [+1d3]

Smithing .................. 84 (great) [+1d3]

Swimming ..................100 (superb) [+1d3]

Tactics ...................100 (superb) [+1]

Two weapon combat ......... 94 (superb) [+1]

Ventriloquism ............. 63 (good) [+1d3]





----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spells

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Baptism of Fire : 1680, 4pp (Effectivity: +59)

Bless : 3622, 4pp (Effectivity: +26)

Calm Monster : 1317, 6pp (Effectivity: +5)

Cure Critical Wounds : 1493, 10pp (Effectivity: +13)

Cure Disease : 3029, 6pp (Effectivity: +7)

Cure Light Wounds : 3362, 2pp (Effectivity: +32)

Cure Serious Wou

...

[Gordy]

Cure Serious Wounds : 1929, 5pp (Effectivity: +21)

Darkness : 1918, 2pp (Effectivity: +6)

Disarm Trap : 569, 6pp (Effectivity: +14)

Dispel Undead : 2265, 4pp (Effectivity: +18)

Divine Digger : 225, 79pp (Effectivity: +7)

Divine Favor : 174, 200pp (Effectivity: +2)

Divine Key : 494, 10pp (Effectivity: +4)

Divine Wrath : 1103, 6pp (Effectivity: +28)

Earthquake : 68, 84pp (Effectivity: +4)

Ethereal Bridge : 690, 102pp (Effectivity: +12)

Farsight : 187, 14pp (Effectivity: +3)

Greater Divine Touch : 821, 78pp (Effectivity: +10)

Greater Enlightenment : 154, 80pp (Effectivity: +3)

Heavenly Fury : 173, 23pp (Effectivity: +9)

Hellish Flames : 1199, 5pp (Effectivity: +41)

Holy Awe : 1249, 10pp (Effectivity: +4)

Know Alignment : 827, 7pp (Effectivity: +6)

Knowledge of the Ancients: 887, 30pp (Effectivity: +13)

Lesser Divine Touch : 577, 7pp (Effectivity: +2)

Light : 1069, 1pp (Effectivity: +18)

Lordly Might : 1474, 5pp (Effectivity: +16)

Minor Punishment : 341, 4pp (Effectivity: +16)

Nether Bolt : 413, 6pp (Effectivity: +54)

Neutralize Poison : 897, 6pp (Effectivity: +10)

Petrification : 599, 96pp (Effectivity: +2)

Remove Curse : 366, 37pp (Effectivity: +15)

Revelation : 1319, 27pp (Effectivity: +4)

Seal of the Spheres : 1090, 6pp (Effectivity: +8)

Slow Monster : 702, 4pp (Effectivity: +11)

Slow Poison : 2095, 3pp (Effectivity: +12)

Summon Monsters : 491, 24pp (Effectivity: +3)

Web : 590, 10pp (Effectivity: +0)





----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Effects of Corruption

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Poison drips from your hands.

Your bodily tissues seem to be in a state of decay requiring a lot of will

to stay up (St: -5, Wi: +10, Ap: -5, -10 speed).

Your corrupted tissue seems to heal much faster.

Your muscles have stiffened slowing you down (base action cost: 1500 energy

points; PV: +4, St: +2).

You are a living mana battery.

You have grown a bulging cranium (Le: +6, Wi: +4, Ap: -6, PV: -4, To: -3).

Your close attunement to corrupted astral space allows teleportation.

You thrive on the flesh of Order.

You sport gills (Ap: -3, water breathing).

Your eyes are shrouded by the mists of ChAoS (Pe: -10).

Your eye(s) turned black (Pe: +3).

You are attached to ChAoS corrupting your foes.

Your feet have been transformed into hooves (+8 kicking damage, Dx: -6).

You have become very light (1/10 weight, St: -6, Dx: +4, To: -6, Ap: -6, +20

speed).

Your bones are made from bronze (Dx: -2, DV: -2, PV: +3).

Your legs have stretched into long, fragile stilts (Base movement cost: 750

energy points; PV: -4; -4 kicking damage; Ap: -6).

Your blood turned to acid.







----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Her achievements during her battles:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Heir, the gnomish priest, quit prematurely.

She scored 3045237 points and advanced to level 50.

She survived for 1 year, 120 days, 1 hour, 46 minutes and 40 seconds (232085

turns).

Heir visited 148 places.

Her strength score was modified by +12 during her career.

Her learning score was modified by +23 during her career.

Her willpower score was modified by -14 during her career.

Her dexterity score was modified by +12 during her career.

Her toughness score was modified by -1 during her career.

Her charisma score was modified by -3 during her career.

Her appearance score was modified by -3 during her career.

Her mana score was modified by -6 during her career.

Her perception score was modified by +4 during her career.

She was unnaturally aged by 156 years.

She was the champion of the arena.

She was a member of the thieves guild.

She defeated the arch enemy of a mighty karmic wyrm.

She ended her adventuring life on level 49 of the caverns of chaos.

11845 monsters perished under her attacks.

The following 29 artifacts were generated during her adventure:

the si

the dwarven rune axe "Rolf's Companion"

the scythe of corruption "Moon Sickle"

the golden gladius "Death's Sting"

the elven long bow "Sun's Messenger"

the Aylas Holy Scarf

the Chaos Orb of Elemental Water

the Chaos Orb of Elemental Air

the Chaos Orb of Elemental Fire

the Chaos Orb of Elemental Earth

the heavy crossbow "The Far Slayer"

the heavy cudgel "Black Thumb"

the lead-filled mace "Big Punch"

the silver key

Brannalbin's Cloak of Defense

the sword of Nonnak

the elemental gauntlets

the ring of the High Kings

the phial of Caladriel

the crown of science

the ancient mummy wrapping

the ankh

the glaive "Long Sting"

the Chaos Orb of Elemental Mana

the black rune-covered dagger "Needle"

the black rune-covered dagger "Sting"

the medium obsidian shield "Protector"

the emerald dagger "Serpent's Bite"

the rune-covered halberd "Wyrmlance"

She possessed the following intrinsics:

She was fire resistant (also through items).

She was poison resistant (also through items).

She was cold resistant (also through items).

She was acid resistant (also through an item).

She was lucky.

She was cursed.

She was sleep resistant (gained through an item).

She was petrification resistant.

She was able to teleport.

She was able to control teleportation.

She was invisible (also through an item).

She was stun resistant (also through an item).

She was paralyzation resistant.

She was resistant to death rays.

She was shock resistant (also through items).

She was able to see invisible things.

She was immune to fire attacks.

She was immune to acidic attacks.

She was able to breathe water.

She was able to resist confusion attacks (gained through an item).

She had the following talents: Aggressive, Boon to the Family, Careful,

Charged, Charming, Durable Magic, Extended Magic, Greased Lightning,

Healthy, Heir, Long Stride, Mighty Aura, Pious, Potent Aura, Quick, Strong

Aura, Strong Healer, Strong Magic, Very Quick.

She had a final speed score of 117 (final base speed: 137).

She was not particularly religious.

She asked for 28 divine interventions.

She was a holy champion of Order.

She was severely tainted by Chaos.

[Mobius]

Hm, save scumming. Not a great start here - folks frown on replaying saves over & over.

Note:
"She was cursed."
that won't help. Also, you don't have Fate Smiles

Corruption list
"You are attached to ChAoS corrupting your foes" - your melee attack may heal most foes.
"Your muscles have stiffened slowing you down (base action cost: 1500 energy points; PV: +4, St: +2)." - horrible, horrible corruption


items:
Rapid healing amulet sux.
Weapon also sux - should have a better choice somewhere

Spells:
acid whatever (don't remember the divine name for acid bolt) is good, as is nether bolt.
--
at this point, you might have to take the loss.
--

also, 28 DI? Your god must be annoyed at you by now.

[Gordy]

If the game were even fractionally easier, I wouldn’t have had to resort to save scumming. I played over 100 characters to death before I even realised I could. I just want to be done with it so I can say I finished it. I got plenty far enough without having to scum. Last night after over 20 attempts at D50 I’d started looking for a trainer. If I had acid spells, I would have used them. Didn’t realise my attacks might have been healing the enemies – nothing was showing me that might have been the case.

I got crowned late – there were no altars and I’d changed alignment (armor of order) from neutral to lawful after the first visit to dwarftown. I needed to oust the priest there so I could convert his altar.
I don’t want to have to start again, but if I did, would Paladin be a better choice? I don’t want to end up back here again.

What weapon would be better? Sting and needle?

[auricbond]

I have ~100/60 armor


DV/PV:113/36

I think you should upload your savefile and see if someone can beat the game with it. :P

This build is very weak. Low stats, low pv, low damage output, bow skill is untrained, balor's have high dv so will dodge a lot. You don't really have any wands which limits opportunity for strategy. Why is your inventory so bare? Did you drop stuff somewhere?

I wouldn't worry about save-scumming, story mode will be an official feature in the steam/deluxe version (with a score penalty).

[Gordy]

Yes, I dropped a lot of stuff in the level above dark forge. Piles of rings, books, artifact weapons, etc. Huh...here I was thinking I was ok because getting here wasn't that difficult. Guess I have to start again.

[Gordy]

Are you really expected to grind herbs and trainer to build stats?

[ghostjghost]

You don't need to grind herbs, just using/eating the right herbs from the few guaranteed bushes you can gather from in the big room make a good boost.

I rarely use the trainer, mostly because I forget he's there.

You can also eat certain corpses to build stats - giants and ogre corpses usually give strength, wight and vampire corpses give toughness, don't know if any actually give willpower or not, but claw bugs subtract willpower and give dexterity.

I've seen wins on you-tube with stats averaging ~25 so it is doable.

Needle and Sting are an awesome combo - though not very good separately they get a massive bonus when wielded together +50 to hit and +50 damage iirc.

[JellySlayer]

If you're really desperate for the win... clear both lever rooms. Hit both levers. Spam Summon Monsters in the both lever rooms until they're filled up with random monsters, and, in particular, so that the levers are covered (use teleport to move between them so you don't attract any of the other balors and so the summons don't have time to scatter too much). Immediately teleport to stairs and exit.

[edit]Also: "She survived for 1 year, 120 days, 1 hour, 46 minutes and 40 seconds (232085 turns)."

No wonder you're having such problems with corruption. The background corruption rate increases significantly for every 90 days played. Nothing you can do about it now, of course...

[Gordy]

Thanks,I will give that a go. The gate only bounces open when I tp to the stairs, which is frustrating. I will try to fill up the rooms.

[Soirana]

Are you really expected to grind herbs and trainer to build stats?

In general you are expected to learn core mechanics instead of pushing through via save scumming.

[Gordy]

I didn’t understand the background corruption to continue to increase every 90 days (only that it did after the first 90 days had elapsed).

I don’t feel like I wasted a ton of time with this character – I went diving in the IL for spell books for a while, and picked away at the CoC, retreating as I came up against the elemental temples. I had to go back and scrounge writing sets at least once before the mana temple and write myself some corruption removal. I blitzed the blue dragon caves and honestly thought I was well prepared. That’s obviously my mistake. I ate every corpse I thought would be to my benefit, though I didn’t necessarily go out of my way for anything specific. I farmed some herbs when they were convenient but didn’t know how to manipiulate their shape to my benefit. I will say this is the first time I’ve visited many of the mid to late game locations. Live and learn I guess. So much for getting out any time soon!

[Burb]

I didn’t understand the background corruption to continue to increase every 90 days (only that it did after the first 90 days had elapsed).


it was initially only the first 90 days in 1.1.1 but was changed (though base background corruption rate was lowered IIRC)


I don’t feel like I wasted a ton of time with this character – I went diving in the IL for spell books for a while, and picked away at the CoC, retreating as I came up against the elemental temples.

It just seems super, super weird to me to be able to spend 480 days... I guess you must have spent a LOT of time running back and forth in the wilderness. Try to plan out your trips across the wilderness more carefully to minimize them :P


She asked for 28 divine interventions.


The piety cost of prayers goes up (exponentially i think?) the more times you pray for the same kind of benefit (i.e. healing cost goes up the more you pray for healing but won't affect pp restore etc). 28 is... rather excessive. As a spellcaster I would think you would have had more emergency tools available to you than prayers, which I typically save as a last resort (typically never at all past early game tbqh)

It'd be really interesting to see if anybody could get a win with your savefile. Mind posting it? That's some enormous background corruption to deal with though.

[Gordy]

I would be pretty upset if someone else could manage it before me! I have a save file from the stairs to D49 where things aren't so dire. Only 8 corruptions or so. Where would I post the save? I have potion of uselessness to sac for artifact.

[Gordy]

I kept running back to my original stash in one of the caves.

Ironic, I started a new dwarf paladin and already found four altars.

[Burb]

Try megafileupload or some other free service?

[JellySlayer]

It just seems super, super weird to me to be able to spend 480 days... I guess you must have spent a LOT of time running back and forth in the wilderness. Try to plan out your trips across the wilderness more carefully to minimize them :P

Maybe running around with stiff muscles for a lot of the game? It's 4th on his list, so he's had it awhile.

[manseman]

A big downside with save scumming is that you will survive situations you normally shouldn't. You will basically get away with being unprepared and crappy overall, so it's no wonder that the final battle seems impossible.

[Gordy]

Even though everything getting up to it was more or less a doddle? It seems like the game rewards abuse of the mechanics instead of the class and level achievement. Considering how totally handicapped characters can finish the game, I am disappointed that mine couldn't, I guess. I can't think how I would play differently knowing what I know now, except to waste time capitalising on op mechanics- herb stat increases and archery.

[Gordy]

Maybe I'm just not seeing how badly off this character is. If it weren't for the corruption I could chip away at nine balors.

[manseman]

Even though everything getting up to it was more or less a doddle?
Did you ever revert to a save? If you did, it wasn't more or less a doddle.


Maybe I'm just not seeing how badly off this character is. If it weren't for the corruption I could chip away at nine balors.
I don't know, even with characters with twice your stats I never feel comfortable meleeing balors. Also, they can summon almost anything so you really want to be quick about it.

[Gordy]

Considering everyone has to do the same final level, it's a wonder it's fair for all class combinations. Suppose it isn't!

[Burb]

I can't think how I would play differently knowing what I know now, except to waste time capitalising on op mechanics- herb stat increases and archery.

not really sure what you're saying, bc you already said you used herbs a bunch to increase your stats on your current character.

it doesn't actually take much time to level archery at all, pretty much ignore it til you get some great stats on a bow/xbow and find a monster that gives you ton of marks and then use up your garbage ammo (depending how threatening it is, just enter defensive mode and hold down t for a bit).


It seems like the game rewards abuse of the mechanics instead of the class and level achievement.

doesn't make any sense to me, class and level achievements are also mechanics, if they were overpowered wouldn't that also just be "abusing" them? what's the difference except that one feels more intuitive to you?

I mean i guess your complaint is that adom is full of not fully intuitive tricks to get ahead, which is reasonable, but it's actually pretty straightforward to get a gate closing win without much grinding at all. Probably the most annoying grinding that I *have* to do every playthrough is live saccing for crowning tbh, but that's just because i like to get it earlire as opposed to later when it's trivial with gold.

if you got stuck doing an ultra i'd understand your annoyance a bit more with the randomness and unintuitiveness, but i don't think it's all that weird to expect someone to train their archery skills so that you could actually use those arrows of -foo- slaying that you've found by the time very late game rolls around. Of all the unintuitive mechanics has in the game, this is one of the least offensive...


Considering everyone has to do the same final level, it's a wonder it's fair for all class combinations. Suppose it isn't!

? it's super obviously not fair for every class combination. Adom has never supposed to be balanced, some are harder than others.

[Gordy]

I spent a lot of time hungry, eating cursed food on account of poisoned hands before I found thick gloves.Maybe that's something to do with how long everything took me. Also, hard to drink potions.

[Gordy]

My failure was relying on my spells when I could have used archery. I didn't realise my spells would be useful only up until D50 and then be useless, for all intents and purposes. I mean, I could have spent a LOT more time grinding. As it was, only in passing ( throw some money at trainer, carefully take some herbs).

[Burb]

spells are not useless on d50, you just don't have very good spells (no acid ball, no acid bolt, no iceball, low knowledge and effectiveness in magic missile, low knowledge and effectiveness in lightning ball). You really only have high effectiveness in fire bolt and frost bolt, and you've actually wasted a ton of spell knowledge of frost bolt already, 400 might not be sufficient to spam your way through D50.

I mean, up til now you've faced tons of monsters with elemental immunity right? Once again, why would you assume that you wouldn't need to work around that by late game?

i'd still be interested in seeing if i could win with your save if you're willing to post it

[manseman]

My failure was relying on my spells when I could have used archery. I didn't realise my spells would be useful only up until D50 and then be useless, for all intents and purposes. I mean, I could have spent a LOT more time grinding. As it was, only in passing ( throw some money at trainer, carefully take some herbs).
Eh? You can kill most, if not all, monsters on D:50 with elemental bolts or minor punishment. The balors are easy if you have demon slaying ammo, but that doesn't mean they are impossible without.

[Burb]

Honestly I find it really weird you suddenly have so much difficulty with d50 because you lack these certain strengths, when without them it seems almost impossible that you've fought off things like titans and (greater) molochs. Did you just get really lucky and never run into them? But you spent 480 in game days, not sure how you couldve avoided these entirely unless you just tped away every time.

[AlterAsc]

Your corruption list looks like an exemplar of what to avoid.
There are multiple sources of corruption removal in the game. For some of that you don't even need to work to get them. In other words - get them next time you play.
Stiff muscles - remove immediately, always, no exceptions.
Corrupting your foes - remove immediately if you primarily melee things and your damage is not 100+ smth per hit.

Secondly. How did you managed to get -14 Willpower? Or rather how did you manage to kill Chaos Archmage with so low Wi - you should've been walking around confused practically all the time. Same with Toughness. I don't expect people to scum extensively but To lowering over the course of the game? What did you even do with it?

But really - Stiff muscles wreck you. You're not fast, and with this corruption you're slow as hell.

Also yes - adom is not balanced between classes. But Priests are in top5 (or maybe top10) of easiest to win with. Because spells.

[Gordy]

I'll cop to not understanding some of the deeper ramifications of the corruptions. I agree that if I'd known some of them were going to have other long term effects I would have removed them sooner. Having the hunger from poisoned hands really set my direction in the early game. I should have gotten it removed. I had the wasting corruption which gave a big boost to wisdom, plus the +wis from the orb and Nonnak sword for some time. By the time I'd used a wish for SoCR, I'd found the Protector shield which got me through the Mana temple. I'll post the save shortly.

[Gordy]

I handled Molochs just fine with magic missiles, and several greater. I have one titan on record but remember them being particularly difficult. I think that one hilariously fell across an altar and got sacrificed.

[Gordy]

http://www.megafileupload.com/m0bP/Heir.svg

Give that a go, I guess? It's at the stairs to the ice level. I didnt ever find any iceball or acid ball spells, I would have used them if I had. I only got the shock ball spell late and used it as much as I could.

If anyone is keen to give it a go, please do post the results. I'd be obliged if, on your way out, you stop by the second level of darkforge dungeon and check out my stash of goodies, pick them up. Head out by the unicorn and get those corruptions removed before leaving and posting the summary?

[grobblewobble]

Are you really expected to grind herbs and trainer to build stats?

No, especially the trainer is not worth it. Training stats is not your problem.

As someone said, the Stiff Muscles corruption is killing you. It slows you down greatly, and you do not even get better xp for it.
The corruption that gives you corrupting melee hits is also killing you, because it means that your melee hits are actually HEALING balors.
So your no. 1 priority should be to remove both.

You should also know that PV is one of your most important stats. You should equip the Holy Scarf, it is far better than an amulet of rapid healing because it grants a +10 bonus to PV.

You have both the Far Slayer and Sun's Messenger. Use ammo to wear the balors down as much as possible from a distance, that should help you as well.

[blunk]

Despite the low bow skill berserk tactics and blessed demon slayer ammo would probably work if you had some spare healing.
With 400 hps, no extra/ultra heal and the worst possible corruptions stacked on top of each other makes it very very difficult.

There's probably a lot that could have been made differrent but that won't change the current situation.

It's perfectly fine to save scum if you want but the learning curve in some respects get slower because you don't have to learn/pay as much attention, at least from my experience.
And what you have on D50 is a result of that.

And yes, adom is a very unforgiving game.

[JellySlayer]

http://www.megafileupload.com/m0bP/Heir.svg

Give that a go, I guess? It's at the stairs to the ice level. I didnt ever find any iceball or acid ball spells, I would have used them if I had. I only got the shock ball spell late and used it as much as I could.

If anyone is keen to give it a go, please do post the results. I'd be obliged if, on your way out, you stop by the second level of darkforge dungeon and check out my stash of goodies, pick them up. Head out by the unicorn and get those corruptions removed before leaving and posting the summary?

Which version are you playing on? I can't get your save to load.

[auricbond]

Which version are you playing on? I can't get your save to load.

I couldn't even download it. Clicking on "free user" just takes me back to the same page.

[JellySlayer]

I had to register to get the save. It's pre23, btw.

Anyway, finished on my first try. It was one of the tougher D:50 fights I've had because we're so lacking in supplies (only 1 healing potion, 1 holy water, no wands, no disablers) and have stiff muscles, but we have enough spells to make it work.

First thing I did was rearrange our gear. Holy Scarf on, add some regeneration. Uselessness was Kinslayer, which I used. We have two scrolls of luck, so we can remove -Curse and add +Fate. Fought my way through the jellies, mutants using our high-efficiency mostly frost bolt, occasionally switching to kinslayer to knock out the odd guy. HPCasted when I ran out of PP and HPCasted CLW when I started to get low on HP. Cleared the top lever room. Balor went down after ~10 frost bolts. Bottom was the same. Started pulling the balors using the levers and taking them out mostly with frost bolt. Between fights I'd remove the corruption from the level and w5 for a bit. One balor panicked and fled, which is quite annoying since they will reset the lever and flee often in the same turn before I had a chance to move. Had to keep farsight up at all times since I got mist of chaos corruption. Second-to-last balor summoned quickling kings, which was nasty and I think I used 1 prayer there. They still died to frost bolt, but unfortunately, I ran out just before Fisty and my other bolt spells were much lower effectiveness.

Fisty was bad. I had to pray twice for healing, and had to flee teleport away a couple times for more healing. He shrugged pretty much all of my lightning bolt spells. I picked up a SoFS and tried summoning a greater earth elemental, but it died in 2 turns. So I used lightning ball... hit him once or twice until HP got low, then teleport away, heal, repeat. I had a gem of power and a few blessed scrolls of power that I put to good use. Took about 10-12 lightning ball to kill him. Missiles ended up being basically worthless other than to attract him when he started to panic... just didn't have the proficiency to be able to hit very well. Ended up adding about 7 more corruptions, but none really bad... we have all the bad ones already. Out stats are ruined moreso than they already were... probably lost 3-4 To/Wi/Ma from HPcasting, plus some other assorted losses/gains from corruption.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Screenshot
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



########################
#!.[*..*.....[...//./..#
#./....././############# ####### #####
#.........[///..].[(..# #.....# .....#
#####################.# #.....# #.....# #################
#.# #.....# #.....+ [...............#
#.########.....# #.....# ###############.#
###.......## #.# #.....# #
#..........#####.#########/###/# ###########
...........[..(/[[.[..[..[.........# #.........#
#####..........#####.#########.##### #.@.......#
###.......## #.# #.# #........C#
#.########.....# #.#########........C#
#.# #.....# #........./........C#
#####################.# #.....# ###########.........#
#[([..[.....[...[.[.[.# #.....# #.........#
#![........############ ####### ##########
############

Heir St:19 Le:44 Wi:13 Dx:25 To:15 Ch:22 Ap: 1 Ma:16 Pe:11 L+
DV/PV:129/46 H:355(355) P:83(390) Exp: 50/27746330 D: 50 Sp: 117
Blessed Invisible Bloated Coward

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Effects of Corruption
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Poison drips from your hands.
Your bodily tissues seem to be in a state of decay requiring a lot of will
to stay up (St: -5, Wi: +10, Ap: -5, -10 speed).
Your corrupted tissue seems to heal much faster.
Your muscles have stiffened slowing you down (base action cost: 1500 energy
points; PV: +4, St: +2).
You are a living mana battery.
You have grown a bulging cranium (Le: +6, Wi: +4, Ap: -6, PV: -4, To: -3).
Your close attunement to corrupted astral space allows teleportation.
You thrive on the flesh of Order.
You sport gills (Ap: -3, water breathing).
Your eyes are shrouded by the mists of ChAoS (Pe: -10).
Your eye(s) turned black (Pe: +3).
You are attached to ChAoS corrupting your foes.
Your feet have been transformed into hooves (+8 kicking damage, Dx: -6).
You have become very light (1/10 weight, St: -6, Dx: +4, To: -6, Ap: -6, +20
speed).
Your bones are made from bronze (Dx: -2, DV: -2, PV: +3).
Your legs have stretched into long, fragile stilts (Base movement cost: 750
energy points; PV: -4; -4 kicking damage; Ap: -6).


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inventory
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total weight: 4056 stones Carrying capacity: 18100 stones

Head : blessed crown of regeneration [+0, +0] [55s]
Neck : blessed Aylas Holy Scarf [+10, +10] {Ch+6} [5s]
Body : uncursed eternium plate mail (-1, -2) [-1, +13] [240s]
Girdle : uncursed adamantium girdle [+0, +6] [18s]
Cloak : blessed Brannalbin's Cloak of Defense [+3, +3] [30s]
Right Hand : blessed black long sword "Kinslayer" (+3, 4d5+3) [+4, +4]
Left Hand : blessed medium obsidian shield "Protector" [+20, +4] {To+2}
Right Ring : uncursed ring of slaying (+6 melee damage, +6 missile damage)
Left Ring : uncursed ring of slaying (+9 melee damage, +6 missile damage)
Bracers : blessed bracers of toughness [+0, +0] {To+7} [10s]
Gauntlets : uncursed thick gauntlets (-1, -2) [+3, +4] [15s]
Boots : blessed seven league boots [+1, +0] [30s]
Missile Weapon: uncursed light crossbow of accuracy (+9, +1) [70s]
Missiles : uncursed quarrel of humanoid slaying (+3, 2d6+3) (p) [4s]
Tool : -

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Killed Monsters
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

11845 monsters perished under her attacks.

The following monsters were vanquished:
12 balors
81 chaos mutants
228 chaos servants
32 chaos warriors
26 chaos wizards
1 greater balor
5 quickling kings

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Achievements
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

She survived for 1 year, 121 days, 1 hour, 25 minutes and 18 seconds (233788
turns).
1 companion was killed during her adventures.
Heir visited 148 places.
Her strength score was modified by +12 during her career.
Her learning score was modified by +23 during her career.
Her willpower score was modified by -15 during her career.
Her dexterity score was modified by +12 during her career.
Her toughness score was modified by -3 during her career.
Her charisma score was modified by -3 during her career.
Her appearance score was modified by -3 during her career.
Her mana score was modified by -9 during her career.
Her perception score was modified by +4 during her career.
She was unnaturally aged by 113 years.
She was the champion of the arena.
She was a member of the thieves guild.
She defeated the arch enemy of a mighty karmic wyrm.

Ancient Domains Of Mystery
Version 1.2.0
Windows Prerelease 23
Build: May 10 2014 15:03:21


[edit]Attached the original save so others can attempt without having to go through megaupload.

[JellySlayer]

Just went to the end. A few amusing things in the .flg

Here's my non-corrupted stats. Dunno what happened to Wi. I lost some from HPCasting, but not that much.



Heir St:24 Le:38 Wi: 2 Dx:25 To:19 Ch:22 Ap: 8 Ma:13 Pe:18 L+
DV/PV: 72/47 H: 452(452) P: 341(341) Exp: 50/27825352 DrCh Sp: 112
Blessed Invisible Satiated


Then there's this:



Heir, the gnomish priest, saved the world with her brave efforts and became
a great ruler while saving herself 621 times.

:p

[hapro]

How does the character have 13 modified willpower if corruptions are giving +14? Am I missing something?

[AlterAsc]

Corruptions also give bonus to St,Dx and To and penalty to Wi, depending on number of them and character alignment. +- number of them/2 for chaotics, /3 for neutral and /4 for lawful characters.

[Gordy]

You have both the Far Slayer and Sun's Messenger. Use ammo to wear the balors down as much as possible from a distance, that should help you as well.

Actually I never found either.Made some earthquake casting mistakes and I think I dropped the level on Sun's Messenger. I guess I was in too much of a rush by the time the xbow showed up. Well done for finishing it.

[jtadom]

Props to you, OP, for figuring things out via savescum, making a bunch of mistakes out of ignorance when you could hardly have known otherwise, and having the tenacity to reach D:50...I think it's super hypocritical for someone who's been playing this game for years and years, and knows it far too well, to sneer at people who restore saves to progress through. Hope you enjoyed it, and continue to!

[Gordy]

Thanks sincerely jtadom. As I said, most of the mid to late wasn't a struggle. The scumming just kept the accidental deaths down. The frustration leading to my post was only on account of the last level. I don't think I could have removed my frustrating early corruptions without teleport control.

[Harwin]

Props to you, OP, for figuring things out via savescum, making a bunch of mistakes out of ignorance when you could hardly have known otherwise, and having the tenacity to reach D:50...I think it's super hypocritical for someone who's been playing this game for years and years, and knows it far too well, to sneer at people who restore saves to progress through. Hope you enjoyed it, and continue to!

I certainly did a bit of savescumming when I was trying to figure out the game. What I think some of the other forum members are trying to do is to point out that savescumming can help you finish the game, but can also be counterproductive to getting better. I know well (from this game and others) that it's easy to get into a "save crawling" (where you save and reload on every bad thing) state, or to start playing recklessly when you can save and reload. And due to certain mechanics in the game, it is possible to get yourself screwed (too much corruption etc) and not realize it and then of course you might think "even with saving and loading I can't beat this - this game is even harder than I thought!" when some of that is due to the saving and loading itself.

My advice to someone who is going to save and reload is to limit it to the following:
1) Deliberately trying an experiment with something and seeing how it goes (stepping into the red lake, reading a scroll of Greater ID and recording what it says about the artifact, attacking certain NPCs, see how the Earthquake spell works). The idea here is to gain knowledge. Then you can reload your save and you learned something new! I suggest ALWAYS reloading your save (if you try something risky and it *happens* to work you'll learn something valuable when you try it again and it doesn't)
2) Making a backup when you feel you've made good progress and hate to lose this. This is the one that easily "corrupts". My advice is two fold: (a) Set some limit on when you can set a restorable backup (when you get to the CoC, when you collect an Orb, when you get the RoTHK) and (b) When you do die, play another few characters for a bit. This adds a "cost" to death which will help you remember the proper caution so that you don't start doing reckless things (except as specific experiments in case "A".), but will still prevent you from having to redo everything again when you do die. Also - if your character keeps dying in a particular place, it will tell you that you might need to adjust your strategy somewhat.

[Gordy]

Good advice, thanks. I did try to have fun with it, evidenced by how long my play time was. I tried and retreated from fire tower and blue Dragon several times, it wasn't as though I was pig headed about making progress until the last 5 levels.

[auricbond]

For me, save-scumming caused a huge leap forward in my skill with the game in a way similar to how exercise works-- i.e. the pay-off occurred when I stopped doing it. The analogy isn't perfect but I think scumming and playing legit work together, like exercise and rest do. The only difference is that the gains in skill at the game are permanent.

[Burb]

I don't see much wrong with save scumming if you're very new, if you don't want to that's quite commendable but I don't think it's inherently detrimental to learning.

Just be careful you don't get lazy with your approach by trying to brute force problems and hoping for better RNG this time around. Treat 5-10% chances of death scenarios seriously like you would in a real game and don't fall into bad habits.

[Gordy]

Well, it’s funny. I took some advice and played another character for a while, and came back to my gnome priest to try one last time. I followed some advice about monster summoning and actually managed to pull off a gate close finish. It was no more difficult than I’d anticipated the end being. I did swap out to Needle and Sting so I could save PP and melee my way through the chaos mooks. I only came up against two or three balors which made the difference. Thanks for all your help and advice.