Early-game help needed

[Long Sting]

So I really want to do a Hurthling Assassin Run. I've rolled like 20 characters and my usual route, which involves starting at the Small Cave. I think part of the numerous failures have to do with my lack of knowledge. For example, I don't totally get how the Two-Handed Combat skill works. When I look at my damage chart, a lot of times I have giant minuses to hit right off the bat and it seems like i have to not dual-wield until I raise the skill, but I'm still not sure. I also don't know when I should poison my weapons, or for how long it lasts. I'd love any help on the route I should do, and how I should play it tactically. I really want a Bilbo character wielding Needle and Sting, that's the main goal of the whole thing.

[JellySlayer]

Two handed combat is quite weak. Your attacks are slower than normal, so you often end up taking extra damage, plus you don't have the added protection of a shield.

Small cave is tough for characters without Healing skill. Better to do the Village Dungeon instead. Also, consider using thrown daggers early in the game... you get a bunch of ranks in them and some extra daggers, so they're fairly strong out of the gate.

[edit]Here's the Wiki article (http://ancardia.wikia.com/wiki/Early-game_survival) on early game survival. Some spoilers in there, if you care about that sort of thing.

[Blank4u47]

So I really want to do a Hurthling Assassin Run. I've rolled like 20 characters and my usual route, which involves starting at the Small Cave. I think part of the numerous failures have to do with my lack of knowledge. For example, I don't totally get how the Two-Handed Combat skill works. When I look at my damage chart, a lot of times I have giant minuses to hit right off the bat and it seems like i have to not dual-wield until I raise the skill, but I'm still not sure. I also don't know when I should poison my weapons, or for how long it lasts. I'd love any help on the route I should do, and how I should play it tactically. I really want a Bilbo character wielding Needle and Sting, that's the main goal of the whole thing.

You can keep wielding daggers, just unequip the 2nd one until you get both your weapon skill and two weapon combat skill high. In the meantime wear a shield when you find it.

As a hurthling you get massive skill advancement discounts to thrown rocks and slings, you should wield those. Also practice bows so that you can poison up to 40 at a time.

[Tyrnyx]

Two-handed skill is especially bad right off the bat. It needs to be trained to make it reasonable and even then it's pretty bad. In total - looked at from a power gaming perspective - dual wielding is not the 'best' strategy. It is almost always better to wield a shield. This is true all the way up to the time you actually get needle and sting. Rangers FYI are the masters of dual wielding (smaller to-hit penalties) but even then there is an energy cost penalty - energy costs is in my opinion the most hidden and one of the more important aspects of ADOM. Consider switching to dual wielding later in the game OR stick it out for role-playing and stubbornness reasons and then brag about it later (this is the path of pain - more will die for glory and it will HURT... but...).

Hurthlings are a good race but they have low str. No way to get around that (except for playing certain classes). Plus you want Hurths for Bilbo reasons. Consider getting the heir gift (not as good as thieves but still good) and you'll have a poisoned dagger all the time and you'll never need to choose. Applying poison manually is pretty much only a strategy to use for very strong monsters (in my exp.) and typically 'best' applied to missiles.

Speaking of missiles: take your biggest stack of daggers and throw them. Much stronger than you'd expect since they start with level 4. Annoying since they don't auto-pickup into the missile slot unless you have one there already but worth the little extra effort. Some may suggest milking orcs for a large stack of their daggers but that's waaay too much work in my opinion.

Good luck. Further explanation of your background could lead to better advice.

[Long Sting]

Thanks a ton for the help guys. What other background things would be helpful to explain? I've been running Alert-Miser-Treasure Hunter for Talents, cause that's what I usually do. Have a feeling I could do something different though. I really appreciate the help. So what I'm gathering from this is that I should probably not start small cave, use a shield for most of the playthrough, and throw daggers/rocks?

[Soirana]

So what I'm gathering from this is that I should probably not start small cave, use a shield for most of the playthrough, and throw daggers/rocks?

Yes, in general get Healing ASAP, use shield + best one hander weapon and use missiles (arrows/quarrels have a bit more long time potential than daggers/rocks).

Other than that... depends on where your problems are (whether you have issues with hurthling assasin in particular or handling the game or something else). Maybe post few character logs as you progress, since it is easier to talk on less absrtact subjects.

[Long Sting]

Yes, in general get Healing ASAP, use shield + best one hander weapon and use missiles (arrows/quarrels have a bit more long time potential than daggers/rocks).

Other than that... depends on where your problems are (whether you have issues with hurthling assasin in particular or handling the game or something else). Maybe post few character logs as you progress, since it is easier to talk on less absrtact subjects.

I'll start up a character. So Should I go to Terinyo first, get Carpenter/Puppy quest and go straight to VD-PC?

[Shinae]

Personally when I run assassin, Candle starsign can be really good if you go in smc route to hmw. Otherwise it's recommended to get healing skill asap. Remember that weapon weight affects a lot for your dualwield bonuses, don't dualwield heavy weapon. Anything above 40s or so is a big no. Daggers work the best or dagger/sword route. I usually go dagger/sword personally.

I don't run assassins with shield. You can carry one for tough places, but it's doable without shield as well. It helps a lot if you find something mithril/adamantium/eternium between smc and hmw. But remember that assassin is still pretty weak early game. Usually takes me 10-20 characters as well to get to hmw. After that they usually last pretty long and midgame isn't that big of problem.

Poison doesn't help you that much, but keep dipping at least in smc and early game. Poisons do you no good if you are dead. It should read on your inventory if your weapon is poisoned. Keep in mind that poison sometimes poisons corpses you get, so if you are low on food on your way to hmw, it might be wiser not to poison weapon.

[JellySlayer]

I'll start up a character. So Should I go to Terinyo first, get Carpenter/Puppy quest and go straight to VD-PC?

You don't have to do the PC if you don't want to. Most important is getting Healing from the Carpenter quest. If you can survive that, then see what kind of shape you're in and assess your options. PC isn't a wrong choice, but the dungeon features there do make it a bit dangerous. The bottom level can be very dangerous if you get unlucky with the dungeon feature there, so if you do get down that far, don't feel bad if you need to make a hasty retreat. Running away is always better than dying :)

[Tyrnyx]

Personally, I go small cave to HMV every game. However, this has a higher casualty rate - I like the early crucible effect - if they can make it through the UD then they're probably worth it, if they can't then I haven't invested to much time in them (this is the path of pain - I do it because I'm lazy and for the glory). However you'll probably find more success in the more cautious VD route. Plus, many consider the healing skill essential (and it's damn good) but I've learned to make do without it. To help sometimes Candle born can be taken, especially if you choose to go for the heir gift. Raven/tree also have survival pros.

Talents are one of the places this forum is pretty aggressively split on and a great question to absolutely derail this thread. It goes something like this (for me!): start with 3 talents? How good is the heir gift? (Judgement call) If good get it. If not good, get alertness and as many of the hardy + pv talents I can get. As leveling continues favor the PV talents tree over treasure hunter tree. Gives treasure hunter late which some might argue makes it not with it but it's how I do it. Then quickness talent tree and maybe archery talents if that's available. DV talents next. The end. Packing talents if nothing else. I never do the book reading talents because I don't play spell casters much. Feel free to argue over this with others.

(Also try to remember to not take miser if you took the heir gift over alertness - a common silly mistake I make occasionally. NBD usually but annoying)

You can check the small cave first to see if the stairs are close. If they are you can go the UD route after you get healing skill.

Oh and jellyslayer up there said the #1 rule of adom (one I forget too often): running is better than dying. I also agree that the puppy cave is often a trap usually best left for a time when you're stronger (cavernous levels are more of a low/mid-teen level difficulty IMHO).

[Carter]

I don't run assassins with shield. You can carry one for tough places, but it's doable without shield as well.

its doable but it makes it ALOT harder. A good shield find will typically double a character's DV. Assassins are very squishy early game, particular hurthlings/gnomes. Double wielding is really only a thing for more tanky races. IMHO without thinking of challenge games dual wielding is only good once you are above level 20 or so and you are 1 hitting most stuff. Even then, i'm not sure losing 20+ DV makes sense when most monsters at high DL can take alot of damage.

[Long Sting]

You don't have to do the PC if you don't want to. Most important is getting Healing from the Carpenter quest. If you can survive that, then see what kind of shape you're in and assess your options. PC isn't a wrong choice, but the dungeon features there do make it a bit dangerous. The bottom level can be very dangerous if you get unlucky with the dungeon feature there, so if you do get down that far, don't feel bad if you need to make a hasty retreat. Running away is always better than dying :)

Yeah I'm think Straight to VD is best. I just feel like I get punished for dual wielding so hard is the thing.

[Long Sting]

Personally, I go small cave to HMV every game. However, this has a higher casualty rate - I like the early crucible effect - if they can make it through the UD then they're probably worth it, if they can't then I haven't invested to much time in them (this is the path of pain - I do it because I'm lazy and for the glory). However you'll probably find more success in the more cautious VD route. Plus, many consider the healing skill essential (and it's damn good) but I've learned to make do without it. To help sometimes Candle born can be taken, especially if you choose to go for the heir gift. Raven/tree also have survival pros.

Talents are one of the places this forum is pretty aggressively split on and a great question to absolutely derail this thread. It goes something like this (for me!): start with 3 talents? How good is the heir gift? (Judgement call) If good get it. If not good, get alertness and as many of the hardy + pv talents I can get. As leveling continues favor the PV talents tree over treasure hunter tree. Gives treasure hunter late which some might argue makes it not with it but it's how I do it. Then quickness talent tree and maybe archery talents if that's available. DV talents next. The end. Packing talents if nothing else. I never do the book reading talents because I don't play spell casters much. Feel free to argue over this with others.

(Also try to remember to not take miser if you took the heir gift over alertness - a common silly mistake I make occasionally. NBD usually but annoying)

You can check the small cave first to see if the stairs are close. If they are you can go the UD route after you get healing skill.

Oh and jellyslayer up there said the #1 rule of adom (one I forget too often): running is better than dying. I also agree that the puppy cave is often a trap usually best left for a time when you're stronger (cavernous levels are more of a low/mid-teen level difficulty IMHO).

That seems good. So what is heir gift? is that the talent that gives more starting gold? So you still get alertness first then do PV stuff before TH? How much PV do you get out of the whole tree? Also to RErail the thread, would this talent progression be good for my Bilbo character? Seems likely. Especially the PV

[JellySlayer]

To get Heir you need to take the talents Charming, Boon to Family, and Heir, ALL at the beginning of the game. This means you can only do it if you start with 3 talents, and if you want Treasure Hunter as well, you need 4, since to get TH you also need Alert as a starting talent. Heir gives you a special item that is appropriate for your class. Some are better than others--they range from a mid-level weapons and armor (stuff you can replace by level 10 or so) to some fairly rare and powerful stuff (bards and thieves have the best; healers and fighters are decent too).

For an Assassin, I'd recommend the missile talents--Good Shot/Keen Shot/Quick/Quick Shot/Eagle Eye/Lightning Shot. Combined, these give very nice bonuses to all missile attacks (+6 to hit and damage, 20% faster attacks, +2 speed). But that assumes you're going to be playing a missile-heavy character.

I'll echo the advice given in the Wiki article I quoted you earlier about talents: Generally, Treasure Hunter is a poor investment unless you can survive the early game (say, to Dwarftown). If you're dying a lot (or always) at the start of the game, you're probably better off with something different. The PV talent line is Hardy/Tough Skin/Iron Skin/Steel Skin/Immune to Pain, giving +3 HP, +4 PV, and +1 special PV. You need 20 To and 15 Wi to get the full benefit though, so if you don't have a good starting roll you need to train up your stats somehow. Another good option is speed line: Quick/Very Quick/Greased Lightning/Long Stride. Combined, these give you an effective +14 speed, which lets you outrun almost every enemy in the early game. Good for missile users, good for getting yourself out of bad situations.

[edit]On a Hurthling, even just grabbing Long Stride on its own (+5 effective walking speed) is often enough to make you fast enough to run away from lots of things, since Hurthlings generally start with a high enough Dx score to get 2-3 points of speed naturally.

[Shinae]

You can also try pick more durable race for your assassin. Dwarf example starts with slightly better toughness and usually few points of PV. That might help to survive early game. Also take your time exploring, game is turn based so if you are in a tight spot, you can easily check your inventory and think about all available options. Running away is always a good thing in tight spot.

[Long Sting]

Thanks a lot. With Hurthling I usually get 2 Talents so I'm assuming skipping Alert in favor of Hardy or Quick would be best. and then not dual wielding until I've used level ups to Needle and Sting. If it's not too much to ask, what is the best way to get Needle and Sting? I've never gotten further that ToEF with any character so the mid-late game is still a shot in the dark somewhat for me.

[Long Sting]

Yes that's true, the only reason I stick with Hurthling is cause I want that Bilbo roleplay. That's the biggest thing, I also try to stick it out through meleeing at like 3 health and taking huge risks cause I don't want to run away. Developing the habit of running away when it gets sticky is tough, ESPECIALLY in the Small Cave when I just want to check one more room for the blanket/stairs. Always tough to forego that value, even when you know it's saving your life.

[Soirana]

Yes that's true, the only reason I stick with Hurthling is cause I want that Bilbo roleplay. That's the biggest thing, I also try to stick it out through meleeing at like 3 health and taking huge risks cause I don't want to run away. Developing the habit of running away when it gets sticky is tough, ESPECIALLY in the Small Cave when I just want to check one more room for the blanket/stairs. Always tough to forego that value, even when you know it's saving your life.

Don't recall Bilbo dualwielding... (well, he didn't use shield either so class wise duelist might be better choice )

What value stairs have if you are struggling to keep characters alive?

[Blank4u47]

Yes that's true, the only reason I stick with Hurthling is cause I want that Bilbo roleplay. That's the biggest thing, I also try to stick it out through meleeing at like 3 health and taking huge risks cause I don't want to run away. Developing the habit of running away when it gets sticky is tough, ESPECIALLY in the Small Cave when I just want to check one more room for the blanket/stairs. Always tough to forego that value, even when you know it's saving your life.

If you want to do smc that bad, it may be a good idea to start avoiding monsters while you're using coward tactics. It only generates harder monsters if you gain levels, and by lvl 5 it's nearly impossible to not die.

[Long Sting]

Don't recall Bilbo dualwielding... (well, he didn't use shield either so class wise duelist might be better choice )

What value stairs have if you are struggling to keep characters alive?

Yeah he didn't dualwield but I don't want to just have Sting with no shield haha. If it wasn't for the massive bonus Needle and Sting get then I would. Yes you're definitely right. I just fight too long in SMC. One thing is though, a lot of times when I just go to UD without fighting anything in SMC an Orc Chieftain shows up and oneshots me. or pit vipers poison me to death. It's very dicey

[Long Sting]

Yeah that's true. The main thing that keeps me from playing it that carefully is that when I get to UD I still run into some pretty tough monsters, but maybe taking Heir/Speed/Hardy talent trees will ease that.

[JellySlayer]

Thanks a lot. With Hurthling I usually get 2 Talents so I'm assuming skipping Alert in favor of Hardy or Quick would be best. and then not dual wielding until I've used level ups to Needle and Sting. If it's not too much to ask, what is the best way to get Needle and Sting? I've never gotten further that ToEF with any character so the mid-late game is still a shot in the dark somewhat for me.

You can get Sting somewhat early in the game if you really want, though the battle to get it is very out-of-depth for a pre-ToEF character. Needle is a reward for doing a lategame quest.

[Long Sting]

You can get Sting somewhat early in the game if you really want, though the battle to get it is very out-of-depth for a pre-ToEF character. Needle is a reward for doing a lategame quest.

Right. Needle I know you get from killing Srraxxarrakex for Sharad-Waador, and Sting I believe is from the assassin prince which is in DDL, right? One thing that makes it tough is I really have no gauge of when I'm strong enough to fight mid-game stuff still. Like I killed Snake From Beyond relatively easily with some magic but ACW's energy breath ended me in like 1.5 turns. So especially with a Hurthling Assassin I'm thinking extreme caution is even more necessary. Do I have to just Kill the Assassin Prince to get Sting?

[Soirana]

Do I have to just Kill the Assassin Prince to get Sting?

Yes, but without Needle Sting is just average dagger with some defensive stats.

And if you can dispatch ancient blue wyrm you don't really need extra fire power. Char who can reliably clear blue dragon caves very likely can close the gate with or without twin daggers.

If you seeking the first win, dropping UD/HMW from visited locations list is not a bad idea. In my opinion they don't provide real pay-off.

[Long Sting]

So I put another character through the grinder and it went a lot better this time. I poisoned my best dagger and wielded that with a (+3, +1) shield I found and it did pretty well. Did Carpenter quest and went to SMC, and the downstairs were in the very next room, but a corpse fiend got next to me, and when I tried to shake him off on UD:1, it happened to generate a river in the stair room so there was no escape. I fought the corpse fiend through 2 prayers to full health and I didn't really hit it at all. even thrown daggers did almost nothing. Started with 2 Talents so I got Alert and Hardy, then I got Tough skin and Iron skin.

[Long Sting]

Yes, but without Needle Sting is just average dagger with some defensive stats.

And if you can dispatch ancient blue wyrm you don't really need extra fire power. Char who can reliably clear blue dragon caves very likely can close the gate with or without twin daggers.

If you seeking the first win, dropping UD/HMW from visited locations list is not a bad idea. In my opinion they don't provide real pay-off.

Yeah I need both to get use of it, so is it best to just not worry about either until I can actually acquire both? and I'm assuming BDC is much harder than the DDL. I really want first win but I'm just tired of the Wizards/Paladins/Priests/Rangers. The ideal would be getting first win with this character type. Yeah the HMV route gets some great loot but at this point considering I haven't beaten the game and how many characters die from it it just seems not worth it.

[zliplus]

Yeah, the HMV route you often should wait until later to access (do VD/DD first, get swimming, etc). It's very possible to get trapped in the HMV in the early game by rivers/rare monsters (vortices, gorgons), though it is possible to cross most rivers by praying. As a hurthling your low str makes early melee pretty hard, especially with daggers, but you should be able to throw rocks against most enemies.

[Long Sting]

Yeah, the HMV route you often should wait until later to access (do VD/DD first, get swimming, etc). It's very possible to get trapped in the HMV in the early game by rivers/rare monsters (vortices, gorgons), though it is possible to cross most rivers by praying. As a hurthling your low str makes early melee pretty hard, especially with daggers, but you should be able to throw rocks against most enemies.

Yeah that's what I've been doing. and the carrot juice has to be blessed to get Swimming, right? so if I'm not injured or starving do I just stand adjacent to the water and pray?

[JellySlayer]

Yeah that's what I've been doing. and the carrot juice has to be blessed to get Swimming, right? so if I'm not injured or starving do I just stand adjacent to the water and pray?

I think she means that to you swim (drown) partway across, take the damage till you will die the next turn, then pray for healing and keep going.

[Long Sting]

I think she means that to you swim (drown) partway across, take the damage till you will die the next turn, then pray for healing and keep going.

Oh that makes sense, definitely something to consider doing.

[Tyrnyx]

I feel like your spoiled enough to get yourself in trouble but not enough to get too crazy - this is a good thing. I would suggest 1) not looking at the guidebook anymore - it gives pretty arbitrary values to certain things. Shows you everything you can do not everything you should do i.e. twin daggers 2) I also strongly suggest you don't try to role play yourself to a win (especially since Bilbo was hired as a thief). Play stronger classes and strong combinations with race. There are people who get there first win on a mist elf mindcrafter ultra but that is DEFINITELY the path of pain. Assassin's are mid-line. They have some nice skills but notably lack healing and don't excel on magic. Magic is strong and so are missiles. I suggest a dwarven priest or orc monk/archer for powerhouse characters.

Feel free to ignore this advice and Bilbo it up. That's just the path of pain. Also, instead of guidebook ask more questions here. See how nice this worked out :).

[Tyrnyx]

I fought the corpse fiend through 2 prayers to full health and I didn't really hit it at all.

Do you know about changing tactics? Putting yourself up to berserk to do enough damage is sometimes the only method. Other times you realize your outclassed (this comes with time) and then you run away. 'L'ooking at a monster can tell you how damaged it is (if you're playing ASCII and don't have health bars). Pressing 'm'ore or looking it up in your monster memory '&' can sometimes tell you stats about it - especially after hitting it a bunch or killing it. It can help you see why if your not making much progress.

Emptying a stack of daggers into something, moving so they step off of them, picking them up and reequiping can sometimes be a valid if annoying method.

Change your tactics with capital 'T' or the F# buttons. Seeing how much damage you output with both melee and missiles is most easily seen with the character screen 'ctrl-w' I believe and ':t' changes where it normally shows speed to show other things the most important of which is LE which is the energy cost of your last action. It's the hidden variable that imroves with weapon marks, talents (like long-stride and quick shot) and SLB.

PV is the most important early game (IMHO) then damage. The daggers you start with don't really cut the mustard. Getting the assassin heir gift can help here. Mostly it's luck. I equip most things that are of higher metal before I have access to an alter. Then I check.

Crowning for assassin's is pretty sweet so if you see an opportunity to do that early (vault + altar, cavernous level + alter, alter near the stairs to the big room or a cavernous level) get it. Playing hurthlings means that corpses of the right alignment also work very well for saccing and gaining piety. Learning to maximize my status with my god was a turning point in ADOM for me. Saccing stoma was how I did it but that no longer works.

Good luck.

[Long Sting]

Do you know about changing tactics? Putting yourself up to berserk to do enough damage is sometimes the only method. Other times you realize your outclassed (this comes with time) and then you run away. 'L'ooking at a monster can tell you how damaged it is (if you're playing ASCII and don't have health bars). Pressing 'm'ore or looking it up in your monster memory '&' can sometimes tell you stats about it - especially after hitting it a bunch or killing it. It can help you see why if your not making much progress.

Emptying a stack of daggers into something, moving so they step off of them, picking them up and reequiping can sometimes be a valid if annoying method.

Change your tactics with capital 'T' or the F# buttons. Seeing how much damage you output with both melee and missiles is most easily seen with the character screen 'ctrl-w' I believe and ':t' changes where it normally shows speed to show other things the most important of which is LE which is the energy cost of your last action. It's the hidden variable that imroves with weapon marks, talents (like long-stride and quick shot) and SLB.

PV is the most important early game (IMHO) then damage. The daggers you start with don't really cut the mustard. Getting the assassin heir gift can help here. Mostly it's luck. I equip most things that are of higher metal before I have access to an alter. Then I check.

Crowning for assassin's is pretty sweet so if you see an opportunity to do that early (vault + altar, cavernous level + alter, alter near the stairs to the big room or a cavernous level) get it. Playing hurthlings means that corpses of the right alignment also work very well for saccing and gaining piety. Learning to maximize my status with my god was a turning point in ADOM for me. Saccing stoma was how I did it but that no longer works.

Good luck.

Oh yeah I use tactics whenever I can. Yeah I was thinking of starting Candle so I can get Heir. Yeah I would love an early crowning, especially cause the gifts are so good. So Hurthling gods like corpses?

[Long Sting]

I feel like your spoiled enough to get yourself in trouble but not enough to get too crazy - this is a good thing. I would suggest 1) not looking at the guidebook anymore - it gives pretty arbitrary values to certain things. Shows you everything you can do not everything you should do i.e. twin daggers 2) I also strongly suggest you don't try to role play yourself to a win (especially since Bilbo was hired as a thief). Play stronger classes and strong combinations with race. There are people who get there first win on a mist elf mindcrafter ultra but that is DEFINITELY the path of pain. Assassin's are mid-line. They have some nice skills but notably lack healing and don't excel on magic. Magic is strong and so are missiles. I suggest a dwarven priest or orc monk/archer for powerhouse characters.

Feel free to ignore this advice and Bilbo it up. That's just the path of pain. Also, instead of guidebook ask more questions here. See how nice this worked out :).

Thanks for the kind words man. I've been playing on and off for years but really getting into it the last few months. I usually do better race class combos so I'll keep at that for the first win

[Long Sting]

Thanks for the kind words man. I've been playing on and off for years but really getting into it the last few months. I usually do better race class combos so I'll keep at that for the first win

addendum: the only reason I'm even trying to play a character besides the elven wizards and drakeling/dwarf paladins is because the idea of Needle and Sting is very appealing to me. But I've dumped like 30 characters in a day cause it's so hard lol xD

[Tyrnyx]

You don't have too quote everything. It's all right there. :)

Honestly I'm more frustrated when I lose 1 very developed character compared to 30 newer ones. But I certainly feel you.

[Long Sting]

Sorry, force of habit lol. I definitely agree with you but I've never actually gotten far so that pain hasn't been fully realized, but I can imagine it's quite rough, especially if it's because of a dumb mistake

[Soirana]

But I've dumped like 30 characters in a day cause it's so hard lol xD

At this point you need.. well, check reasons behind deaths. Some logs/screenshots would not hurt either.

[Blank4u47]

Oh yeah I use tactics whenever I can. Yeah I was thinking of starting Candle so I can get Heir. Yeah I would love an early crowning, especially cause the gifts are so good. So Hurthling gods like corpses?

Hurthling gods like their meals cooked :) thankfully though you start with cooking skill, food pres and a cooking set

[Long Sting]

I've been carrying around cooked corpses to train strength anyway so I'll sac those for sure. I die because I get overzealous in the SMC is the main reason. Or I get poison stacked by a bunch of spiders/pit vipers in the CoC and I don't have 2 prayers to cure it by that point usually. I just have to run away more I think

[Soirana]

I die because I get overzealous in the SMC is the main reason.

Isn't this thread rather pointless then? I mean, we all agreed SMC is bad... and you killed 30 chars in where. What's the point of it?

[Nobbse]

@Long Sting

At the moment You are forcing Yourself winning and doing it with an assassin but it may turn out that it doesn't fit Your real "inner playing style". To find out what Your real playing style is keep on experimenting with random race/class combinations.

Every dive that got You deeper You should cherish as an achievement,
so Your achievement ladder may look like

- knowing with each character whether to go for a hunt on Kranach or not
- reaching Arena
- reaching big room
- reaching dwarven city
- doing Thrundars quests
- getting water orb
- ...
- reaching casino
- etc...

Your first goal should NOT be a win, but simply with every run to get deeper in the game than the runs before and then everytime You got to a place You never were before is a sort of win in my eyes. So simply keep on experimenting (random star sign, random race, random class) until You find Your playing style! The most important thing in my eyes is to find a style that optimizes the fun You have instead of finding a style to optimize Your winning chances. Success will follow then.


For example in my case my personal playing style just doesn't seem to fit with the "strong caster classes"
All my wins with caster classes strangely have been druids, healers, elementalists, bards (even a mindcrafter though I didn't like the style) but never necromancers, never paladins, never priests, never wizards, though wizards are seen as one of the easiest classes here (- and I never had an assassin win, too)

In the meantime I have about 25 wins but it needed a lot of experiments to find out what pleases me. And my 1st win was neither an orc barbarian nor an grey elven wizard - it turned out to be a hurthling elementalist - it seemed to be a "meh" combination at 1st sight but it turned out to be a very convenient playing style for me ...

[mjkittredge]

For talents I'd get the fast healing one, and then the porter/master packager/beast of burden. Going around encumbered sucks. Leaving valuable treasure on the dungeon floor and having to make multiple return trips sucks. Not having enough money to buy upgrades at shops sucks.

[Soirana]

For talents I'd get the fast healing one

ADOM has no such talent.
Healthy definitely is not a talent.

[Blank4u47]

For talents I'd get the fast healing one, and then the porter/master packager/beast of burden. Going around encumbered sucks. Leaving valuable treasure on the dungeon floor and having to make multiple return trips sucks. Not having enough money to buy upgrades at shops sucks.

I never select Healthy talent, mainly because I've never looked into exactly how it effects your character in the long term. But I'm pretty sure it just multiplies the # of turns to heal 1 hp naturally by .80 . So regen of 60 becomes 48. Hope someone who actually knows corrects my assumption.

But I don't think the porter talents will help in the early game, he's already cutting down what he's carrying by specializing in daggers, and the defensive talents will help much more in the short term where he needs the most help.

[Long Sting]

Isn't this thread rather pointless then? I mean, we all agreed SMC is bad... and you killed 30 chars in where. What's the point of it?

No because I got a bunch of information from different people. I already knew I had to play differently to win I just wanted some general advice and info.