adom boycott

[fir]

Im tired recently and not playing adom since the stiries i was writting year or half a year ago - where i played in p23 with some lucky mist elf assassin who found like 4 ring shops yet 2 potions shops in near surface levels and started djini production machine by dipping rings and wishing for exchange

ye, so that was the story - then i heard that in later versions this djini production was artifficially cutted down by some binary flag,
which make me sorry

now i rethinked the thing (as seen it took a half an year for this though - thats also why i think it is important):

the thought:

i want to partially boycitt adom for doing this as i think it was bad choice making the game worse and lowering old level of it
Why i think so - i think that this djini production was so tiremaking and hard to do (regarding that only avaliable for insanelly spoiled ones), yet so amazing fine, that cutting it
off is really not needed /BAD
Really it is hard so if someone will do it all why to not give hima an award from it - still if someone dont want to use it and do some more lawfull play he can do it - and will do

I must say i very value such kind of hacks in adom and adom without it is worse adom for kids (I say this kind of hacks as there are probably more of that in adom before, though i dont know it,
I only remember the solution with breeding and eating clawbbugs
- which was allso fine imo (though far easier and 'powerfull' than this djini dipping) - skipping the details as i feel i turn a bit into confusion what i think on it- i may say i much more liked the old open and hacky adom where more options for stats
rising was working etc, hack avaliable etc - if someone would like to balance the game it could balance it other way, than just removing hacks

this all makes me to boycot adom partially 0 i still be lurking on it
but my heart was somewhat broken i must say, and im not sure if it can be glued easily - so you adom makers got an option - rise it as high as it was or no, i know it is not easy but wjhat else can i say

regs,
fir

[Maul]

Oh my, how will the ADOM community possibly cope without you?

If I understood your grammatically broken ramble correctly, your complaint is that instead of being able to dip nine rings into a PoEX to make a RoDS, now we are only able to get one RoDS this way? Well, if that's worth boycotting the game for you, go ahead. I, for one, like the change - it may not be possible to get so many wishes, but on the other hand, there is a greater chance of getting that one single wish - which is generally all that I need when I am trying to get an AoLS for an ultra, or whatever.

[Caleb]

OP post sounds wrong on so many levels. Not only the method served no purpose other than making an archmage / popping out overpowered characters quite early into the game, but also there's no reason to blame the fix quality when it's used in the right way with a stack of items(dip a stack and get a lot of different items for ultra grinding if you're unlucky with the loot you got).

It's not about the game losing its oldschool feeling, it's a single bug. Might aswell whine about 500 movement cost 7LBs then, since you're at it?

Can't say there never were any bad balance changes though. I really disliked what was done to the maze, for example. Now it's an optional location with nerfhammered rewards, never visited in quick runs because of the amount of corruptions/stat drains/magic mapping needed (magic mapping wasn't needed in 1.1.1!) and useless in long(ultra) runs since there's TotRR/other melee weapons. 1.2.0 post-60 doesn't usually have other valuable rewards except for the axe. Well, -1 location.

[Blank4u47]

Good luck boycotting this game... It always draws you back in! My main complaint was the stat potential nerf, it had a huge effect on my gameplay style and race choices. However instead of boycotting, I learned to play differently, and I feel that overall I have way more fun now.

So... My advice to you is, maybe just try some new things?

[Shinae]

I personally welcome changes. I think 1 RoDS is enough from dipping and stat should be slightly harder to obtain. I like that wishes are little bit rare instead of having wish machine for them.

I don't have that huge problem with stat potentials. I usually find quite a bit of potential potions. Some games they are more rare, but some games they are plenty. I am fine with that. My current 12 To dark elf managed to buff his To to 36 already. Quite enough. I did use one wish for potions of toughness tho.

[JellySlayer]

If you want unlimited wishes, just play in exploration mode. Problem solved.

[anon123]

Here (http://www.adom.de/forums/project.php?issueid=3400)'s an RFE to revert the "one RoDS per dip per game" behavior. Upvote it, express your opinion in the comments, and wait for Mr. Biskup to deal with it. "Boycotting" the game isn't going to achieve anything.

Also, note that version 1.1.1 still works, and no one will prevent you from playing it and creating wish engines, kick-robbing, dragon-doubling gold and getting crowned at level one as many times as you want ;)

[fir]

It's not about the game losing its oldschool feeling, it's a single bug. Might aswell whine about 500 movement cost 7LBs then, since you're at it?


This is noticably a metter of this bug im saying about..
ADOm was so fine becouse this so much oldschool way that
you could use such 'bugs' as a part of gameplay to exploit a game
- now i dislike the changin way of thinking on it here

this alone maybe will not suffice but there is also a second part of the thing, as i said - this is really not needed as this was a tremendous fun but at a very gigh cost of getting enough luck
and to mude a lot of work - only insane player could do that --
so i liked adom was for insane players, Now its not? well
thats bad change

I will boycott it as i said but not 100% boycott does not have to be binary i will be boycotting it only at 90%

[Blank4u47]

I feel that if you really want to exploit the game in order to win, it's not worth winning. Ring dipping is an exploit. Maybe just try exploration mode? 42 wishes with no work. But still I don't understand. Game is mostly the same, but with a few new locations, and very few bugs.

[fir]

But still I don't understand. Game is mostly the same, but with a few new locations, and very few bugs.

It is ideological conflict between the game and me
(i would not boycotting it also if i would not play it so much,
but the more you play the higher expectation I feel to stay
wit it.. those fun with rings or other such kind funs was
important things keeping me atill at the game

[Blank4u47]

Maybe try a few new things? Like pick pocketing? It's like a treasure roulette! Quite fun! Maybe explore the ice queen domain? Guaranteed artifacts you can get access to as soon as lvl 15 (theoretically)

I'm just saying, everyone has many reasons that keep them playing, maybe you'll find a new reason if you try a few new things.

[Maul]

It is ideological conflict between the game and me
(i would not boycotting it also if i would not play it so much,
but the more you play the higher expectation I feel to stay
wit it.. those fun with rings or other such kind funs was
important things keeping me atill at the game

I am sad to hear that an exploit is the only thing that kept you motivated. Frankly, I sometimes struggle to be motivated by ADOM as well. But instead of doing an inherently hostile move such as a one-(wo?)man boycott, why not try to do a challenge game (such as Lithium Man) or otherwise spice up your experience with something you haven't tried before? Or just try another game if you don't feel like playing ADOM, but don't make an ideological war out of it, because that's silly.

[AlterAsc]

never visited in quick runs because of the amount of corruptions/stat drains/magic mapping needed (magic mapping wasn't needed in 1.1.1!)
Trap trick was utter bullshit and fixing it was a good thing.
If you're complaining that maze is an actual maze and takes time to pass through, then i don't know what you want. It's a maze, okay?
Rewards were a bit overnerfed, that i agree.

[Caleb]

Trap trick was utter bullshit and fixing it was a good thing.
If you're complaining that maze is an actual maze and takes time to pass through, then i don't know what you want. It's a maze, okay?
Rewards were a bit overnerfed, that i agree.

Hell no I'm not complaining about the top trap type fix. It was bad (and maze skipping is the lightest case of exploiting it).

What I'm complaining about is the maze being harder in 1.2.0 than it was in 1.1.1 because of that fix so nerfing the rewards for them to be "on point" with 1.1.1 doesn't really work just because of how easy it was in 1.1.1. Having only the axe as the reward usually doesn't work for all the bother that the player has to overcome.

Jellyslayer's argument is "It's an optional location. If you don't want the axe just don't go there".

Thing is, if you're doing a quick run you don't visit the maze anyway. For long runs (like ultras) you either have the TotRR or a lot of other random items that are on par with the axe (or at least make the location not worth visiting) in pre64.

If you're doing an unoptimized run with stat exploiting etc (the main reason why it was nerfed: on paper it gave a huge boost to character power) there are a lot of other things to gain unlimited power from and maze isn't even the most overpowered source.

[Blank4u47]

Hell no I'm not complaining about the top trap type fix. It was bad (and maze skipping is the lightest case of exploiting it).

What I'm complaining about is the maze being harder in 1.2.0 than it was in 1.1.1 because of that fix so nerfing the rewards for them to be "on point" with 1.1.1 doesn't really work just because of how easy it was in 1.1.1. Having only the axe as the reward usually doesn't work for all the bother that the player has to overcome.

Jellyslayer's argument is "It's an optional location. If you don't want the axe just don't go there".

Thing is, if you're doing a quick run you don't visit the maze anyway. For long runs (like ultras) you either have the TotRR or a lot of other random items that are on par with the axe (or at least make the location not worth visiting) in pre64.

If you're doing an unoptimized run with stat exploiting etc (the main reason why it was nerfed: on paper it gave a huge boost to character power) there are a lot of other things to gain unlimited power from and maze isn't even the most overpowered source.

Just to be clear, you wouldn't go to the maze if you were doing an ultra, even though it's a guaranteed source of 5 str, 3To, 6 Pe and a chance to get +1 in all other stats? Also a chance for a spellbook, and a chance for a random artifact (got one in last game r64). Also guaranteed source of 3 potions of cure corruption? C'mon! That's pretty damned awesome! There's now 3 guaranteed ways to get a ridiculous str score.

[Caleb]

Just to be clear, you wouldn't go to the maze if you were doing an ultra, even though it's a guaranteed source of 5 str, 3To, 6 Pe and a chance to get +1 in all other stats? Also a chance for a spellbook, and a chance for a random artifact (got one in last game r64). Also guaranteed source of 3 potions of cure corruption? C'mon! That's pretty damned awesome! There's now 3 guaranteed ways to get a ridiculous str score.

Well, that's one of the most misleading ways to explain the situation with the maze.

1. With magic mapping (only guaranteed source of which is bug village, another optional location. Which makes this location combo basically a "waste turns for minor stat scumming"-combo) the maze is a source of minor corruptions/stat drains (if one gets unlucky and melees a mage). Without magic mapping, stats drained might even not be able to compensate the rewards.
2. The amount of loot per turns spent isn't even high compared to other "optional locations", say, FGJC. The corruption is quite high though.
3. The corpse also gives 1 corruption for those stats so you can't really call that "a source of stats" since you have to pay a socr for that.

The axe is good. But, as I already mentioned, in long runs you are likely to find other good weapons or are going for a TotRR anyway. In short runs, going for the maze isn't worth it, you're more likely to visit other locations for random loot.

[Blank4u47]

1. Good point. But I havnt had an issue with stat drains, just use a wand to take out those bastard mino mages. Get a good bounce in, and they are dead in 1-2 turns.

2. True, but those are non-guaranteed sources of stat gains (well, except for str. That's one of the greatest places ever for strength gain) and the greater vault is often undead, which is insta death for many players.

3. The corruption gained from the corpse is a non-issue, and possibly even an asset, as you gain potions of cure corruption as part of the reward, which you can use to remove it if it's a bad one.

I agree with your final point, but I don't feel every character should go to the maze! When the rewards were amazing, I would go everytime, regardless of class or current weapon set-up, because all those gain attribute potions was too much to pass up! But with the rewards before, every character I had would end up with stats in the upper 60's by end game, half the time I would just say screw it to the final battle because literally nothing could kill me, and I no longer saw the point of playing. This needed to be done.

[Caleb]

Well, the "not every character going into the maze" moment will be accomplished anyway as not every character will randomly get magic mapping (and if a character visits bugwl, which is not a location to clear for every char, just to visit the maze afterwards, it's probably something that SHOULD be rewarded, if anything). And bruteforcing the maze without mm makes the rewards/turns spent ratio just atrocious.

As for the FGJC greater vault often being the undead vault, it's just as random as all other greater vaults. You probably got unlucky.

[Blank4u47]

Every character can beat bug temple. Use wands of fireball. Guaranteed.

I was suggesting wands of Magic missle, not the spell.

I don't consider GUV's unlucky, I know full well it's random, I was saying for newer players that a GUV is a bit too much to handle for them.

[Caleb]

Every character can beat bug temple. Use wands of fireball. Guaranteed.

I was suggesting wands of Magic missle, not the spell.

I don't consider GUV's unlucky, I know full well it's random, I was saying for newer players that a GUV is a bit too much to handle for them.

Aw. I meant magic mapping which is guaranteed from bugwl. Magic missile isn't even the best spell to deal with mino mages anyway. Should've rephrased it probably instead of just using "mm".

As for the bug temple, "not a location to clear for every char" meaning that you have to be on the surface at the 22-30 interval, being able to clear bug temple without any risk of dying just to get the magic mapping scrolls. It's a big enough investment and a small enough chance of everything happening at once to suppose that it's going to make another location easy (not just "worth visiting", atm it's not worth visiting the maze without magic mapping as the reward/turn spent ratio is bad).

GUVs are never worth clearing (except for that one single time you want to do it as a personal achievement). Can't think of a character that would want to do that for random loot.

[Soirana]

you have to be on the surface at the 22-30 interval

????



GUVs are never worth clearing (except for that one single time you want to do it as a personal achievement). Can't think of a character that would want to do that for random loot.
Raven born perm invisible archer who does not fancy RCT as long term weapon.

Overall char should detect items some stuff (like bracers of war and artifact missiles) are guessable by color/item type. Some combo of if these might be worth taking on GUV.

[Blank4u47]

Aw. I meant magic mapping which is guaranteed from bugwl. Magic missile isn't even the best spell to deal with mino mages anyway. Should've rephrased it probably instead of just using "mm".

As for the bug temple, "not a location to clear for every char" meaning that you have to be on the surface at the 22-30 interval, being able to clear bug temple without any risk of dying just to get the magic mapping scrolls. It's a big enough investment and a small enough chance of everything happening at once to suppose that it's going to make another location easy (not just "worth visiting", atm it's not worth visiting the maze without magic mapping as the reward/turn spent ratio is bad).

GUVs are never worth clearing (except for that one single time you want to do it as a personal achievement). Can't think of a character that would want to do that for random loot.

Oh, gotcha. And you're right about magic missle not being the best, it is effective though. Far slaying can be the best, depending on how it bounces.

Bug temple you need about 100 DV while on coward, decent missle skills(not necessary though), water orb (for 32 willpower), wand of fireballs and wand of door creation. Every character can beat it this way easily.

GUVs are always worth clearing if you have decent willpower and there's decent artifacts. It's not that hard, but it takes some use of strategy, and a lot of patience.

[Caleb]

Oh, gotcha. And you're right about magic missle not being the best, it is effective though. Far slaying can be the best, depending on how it bounces.

Bug temple you need about 100 DV while on coward, decent missle skills(not necessary though), water orb (for 32 willpower), wand of fireballs and wand of door creation. Every character can beat it this way easily.

GUVs are always worth clearing if you have decent willpower and there's decent artifacts. It's not that hard, but it takes some use of strategy, and a lot of patience.

I'm getting the feeling that you're playing all characters to the point of "overpoweredness" and not "faster = better". By those means even though every character is able to beat the maze easily the rewards feel even less strong (and even worse in terms of loot/time ratio since your chars are overpowered and can farm better locations anyway; neither they will need the axe) than they do for a speedrunning or a semi-speedrunning character, though.

[Blank4u47]

You are definately correct, I have very overpowered characters, just look at my YAVP unarmed duelist. That'll give you an accurate picture of my playstyle.