Exact numbers for the tactics skill

[Blank4u47]

Has anyone looked at the exact effect of the tactics skill and settings? I was hoping to save some time. My gut instinct is that aggressive is +-10% V.aggressive is +-25% and berserk 50%

And maybe skill is 1% per 4 pts?

Any thoughts or ideas on how to figure this out?

[_Ln_]

Any thoughts or ideas on how to figure this out?

Probably something like remove as most DV bonuses you can (bad weapon, no Dodge, no talents, Dex at 10, no special classes etc.), smith a bunch of items and check out different configurations? To-hit seems pointless since no one knows how it works anyway.

Level 1 dorf smith char in exploration mode should be a perfect start.

[Blank4u47]

Good idea! but I thought to hit was 1d(to hit) vs 1d(monster dv)?

[Grond]

Probably something like remove as most DV bonuses you can (bad weapon, no Dodge, no talents, Dex at 10, no special classes etc.), smith a bunch of items and check out different configurations? To-hit seems pointless since no one knows how it works anyway.

Level 1 dorf smith char in exploration mode should be a perfect start.

Smithing takes some effort to set up, so I would go for scrolls of increase melee damage/accuracy instead. You don't necessarily need to know how to-hit is calculated to know how tactics affects it; you just need to be careful of whether differing factors (equip +to-hit, class-level +to-hit, stat +to-hit, weapon skill +to-hit...) are affected differently by tactics.

Some preliminary notes:

There are some minimum bonuses, since you get increases at +0 to-hit and +0 damage
The percentage boost is based on the absolute value of your to-hit and damage - take a look at your tactics bonuses when you are swinging around two statues.

[Grond]

Good idea! but I thought to hit was 1d(to hit) vs 1d(monster dv)?


The internal mechanics for the melee and missile combat system have been rewritten to use different mechanics: attacks no longer need to surpass the DV of the opponent on a roll of 1d20 + bonusses but rather 1d(20 + bonusses) is rolled to surpass the DV value. This adds some randomness to combat (no longer will there be automatic hits in all cases). Also monster hit bonusses (at high levels) have been increased to counter the 'a DV of X is enough -- you'll never need more' effect observed in recent versions. Everyone still has a 5% chance to score an automatic hit (actually the chance is slightly higher, especially for extremely powerful monsters, but that's the baseline).

This reference from http://www.adom.de/adom/history.php3 is all we have, AFAIK.

[Blank4u47]

Nice! Thanks grond! The main reason I'm looking at exact numbers is entirely based on my curiosity, and I'm trying to figure out if sword starsign is better for my current unarmed duelist. I'm In FGJC5 with him now, and I think sword sign helped him out, but I'd like to know for other unarmed duelists in the future.

[Grond]

Some rough preliminary results for damage modifiers. (X% means X% of normal +damage; total result is rounded down):


CO: -3 - 30%
VD: -2 - 20%
DE: -1 - 10%
AG: 1 + 5%
VA: 2 + 15%
BE: 3 + 30%


Bonuses from month of the Dragon/Sword are applied to the previous result and rounded down again, so the benefits to damage end up being rather small (e.g. at +50 base damage you would be getting +18 damage (3 + 50*.3=18) on berserk without month of the Sword and +19 damage (18 *1.1 = 19.8) with month of the Sword).

[Blank4u47]

Wouldn't that instead be *1.2 for month of sword, and *1.1 for dragon? Regardless, the tactics bonus for sword and dragon appear very minimal, but maybe it helps more after tactics skill because the bonuses are higher. I'll check it with my current character as he is sword born and has tactics skill at 100.

[Grond]

Tactics bonuses are +10% for both months. The 20% sword bonus is for weapon marks, not tactics.

[Blank4u47]

You of course are 100% correct as usual. Forgot my numbers! anyhow, while playing with my character with 97 skill in tactics and born on sword I have;


aggressive +33-35% to hit, +19-20% dmg, -7-8% dv
Very aggressive +54-55.5% to hit, +33-40% dmg, -14-16% dv
Berserk. +82-84% to hit, +57-60% dmg, -36-38 dv
Defensive. -9-11% to hit, -11.5-13% dmg, +26%dv
Very defensive -19-20% to hit, -15-26% dmg, +46-47%dv
Coward. -33-35% to hit, -30-40% dmg, +68-69%dv

I tested this duelist with and without ring of slaying, and burdened/not burdened so I could get a better range of numbers.

[Grond]

Full melee results for positive to-hit, damage, and DV. X% represents X% of base value, rounded down (for these purposes -3.5 would round to -4, while 3.5 would round to 3). True berserk increases the base values for to-hit and damage by 6. Values without tactics skill should be completely correct, values with tactics skill may be somewhat off (+/- 1% ?).

Without tactics:


To-hit
CO: -4 - 45%
VD: -4 - 30%
DE: -2 - 15%
AG: 2 + 10%
VA: 4 + 25%
BE: 4 + 50%

Damage
CO: -3 - 30%
VD: -2 - 20%
DE: -1 - 10%
AG: 1 + 5%
VA: 2 + 15%
BE: 3 + 30%

DV
CO: 3 + 50%
VD: 2 + 30%
DE: 1 + 15%
AG: -1 - 10%
VA: -2 - 20%
BE: -3 - 40%


With 100 tactics:


To-hit
CO: -4 - 26%
VD: -4 - 8%
DE: -2 - 6%
AG: 2 + 30%
VA: 4 + 44%
BE: 4 + 70%

Damage
CO: -3 - 16%
VD: -2 - 6%
DE: -1 - 6%
AG: 1 + 18%
VA: 2 + 28%
BE: 3 + 44%

DV
CO: 3 + 60%
VD: 2 + 40%
DE: 1 + 24%
AG: -1 - 6%
VA: -2 - 10%
BE: -3 - 30%


So with 100 tactics and +50 base damage, you are getting +25 (3+.44*50) in berserk without Sword and +27 (25*1.1) with Sword.

[Blank4u47]

Thank you!

[_Ln_]

Hmm, I was actually suggesting to test the DV change, not to-hit. Pretty sure it has fewer factors. For all we know, to-hit might be modified after tactics settings by some obscure things.

EDIT: Man, I'm blind. I see you both already did that.